Bullshit. Those large stores come in to an area and drive out local competition, then when they don’t make the % to keep the shareholders happy they fold up and leave. Mom and pop shops are the backbone of communities and these pricks destroy that.
Excellent point. If stealing is what keeps people fed, then the taxes that keep that store open are worth it. But also I think the reported rates of theft are wildly overstated, here in Australia we had our two largest stores basically admit they made up the whole “epidemic” so they’d have an excuse to raise prices.
Do you believe every USPS office is profitable? No, many are not, but people need access to mail. Roads don’t generate a profit either. Government services shouldn’t need to be profitable.
Or, like, get on a bus. Or walk. Or cycle. Or get food delivered from any one of many cheap delivery options. Or even a food bank or church. Or neighbour. Or family. Or friends. You think people without a car who don’t have a supermarket next door just die? I can’t even imagine the level of learned helplessness you seem to possess.
Buses take money. And walk where? Bicycle where? You think they could just walk to the nearest supermarket? Do you not understand that there isn’t food available for miles? Do you really not understand what the term ‘food desert’ means?
And delivered? Do you really not understand what being poor means?
So does food from the supermarket. That’s why we give poor people money. We should, IMHO, give them even more. Either way, with that money, they get on the bus.
Half of the world’s population walk miles for food and water. That’s certainly not a big ask on a bicycle. I commute six miles each way to work on a bike, every day. For millennia, humans roamed hundreds of miles on foot hunting for game. Yet you’re arguing someone today can’t cycle a few miles?? Lordy.
Delivery is often cheaper than the time and commute, so I’m not sure what you’re arguing there. Amazon offers free delivery, and you can buy every staple you need.
Here was you response to me prior to you deleteing it:
You cannot use SNAP for bus fare. You also cannot get delivery using SNAP
This is a good argument for giving people money, not food stamps.
You’re asking people, in America a supposedly developed nation, to do the same things people in developing nations have to do to get food.
I don’t get this revulsion to walking. Most people walk every day for commutes, food, and errands. Walking does not mean your life is irredeemably terrible. In fact, data shows you will live longer and be happier. Ditto for cycling.
You live in a little town far away from civilisation. I think it’s unreasonable to expect city amenities in such places. There’s no logistical way to get supermarkets close to every home. Not when people have built homes so far away from everyone else.
And my response: No one is asking for supermarkets near their home. But a grocery store that’s reasonably priced is well within the realm of possible. You’re literally blaming people for where they live, even though they can’t afford to move. These aren’t new builds. These are generational homes. The people who built them are long dead and their grandkids or great grandkids now live in the same house because they are too poor to live elsewhere. My town has a pop of over 10k. It’s reasonable to expect a grocery store or 3, or even a supermarket, to be there. And I’ve explained in another comment why there isn’t. No one is against walking, but as I said in my other comment to you, I’d have to bike over 2hrs to the nearest grocery store, walking? It’d take me 8hrs. It is not reasonable to expect anyone to walk 8hrs to the nearest grocery store. (And yes, I Google mapped it so I’m not just talking out my ass.) I’m honestly just so flabbergasted that people blame others for where they live like they have a choice when they can’t even afford a car.
You cannot use SNAP for bus fare. You also cannot get delivery using SNAP, besides Amazon, and you have to have a Whole Foods near you. The closest one for me, as an example, is in another state 3hrs away. So Amazon won’t deliver to me. There’s actually no bud where I live, so that’s out. And I just looked it up, it’d take me over 2hrs to bike to the nearest grocery store, and I’d have to do it on a highway. Oh and on top of that, I’d have to bring my toddlers.
Your points are great, if you live in a city. But most food deserts are in smaller rural towns. You’re asking people, in America a supposedly developed nation, to do the same things people in developing nations have to do to get food. It’s kinda ass backwards don’t ya think? That the “richest” nation is telling their population to live like some of the poorest nations.
Bused are cheap, walk to a store, bicycle to a store, I bike 12km to and from every day. But you’re conveniently ignoring every other argument the lad above made, so that shows your victim mentality.
You think poor people can afford get food delivered. You think a supermarket is within walking distance. You have no idea what being poor means or what a food desert is. People can be 20 miles from the nearest place to buy food in rural small towns. All they can do is buy junk food at the Dollar General and survive on that.
Poor doesn’t mean you can afford luxuries. Food desert doesn’t mean you can walk to a supermarket.
Stores expanded too much and then got hit by the pandemic, a tight labor market, and changes in buying patterns. Those sort of things have a lot larger impact on their profitability than whether shrink was 1.6% or 1.4%.
Some stores are higher than 1.4%, but it’s still in the low end of single digits, not like 15%. Raising prices a couple percent to compensate wouldn’t even be noticed.
Does shrink include the cost of security, security measures, vandalism or injured employees? You have this one thing you think describes the whole thing and the reality is you’ve chosen your bad guy and you’re going to confirmation bias yourself there.
Because wehh corporations wehh mom and pop shop (which they don’t go to because it’s inconvient) bla bla poor people. People like thinking they have a deeper understanding of something even if it’s objectively not true because it makes them feel intelligent, no matter how stupid it makes then look. The reason these stores closed is really simple, crime in low income areas caused these stores to not be profitable or simply not worth the endless hassle. I don’t even get why they’re mad though, they cry about mom and pop shops and when the large corporations leave and there is all the space for them they get mad the large corporations left. Idiotic.
So I’d like to chime in here as someone who lives in a low income food desert. The food desert isn’t because of theft. In fact, many chains have tried to open up here over the decades. The city government is so hostile towards them though, that these stores don’t even get to the opening stages. The city wants to charge these stores exorbitant fees for no reason. Charge 10x as much for electricity than the town with a smaller population 15minutes away. Is this everywhere, no, but it is in more places than you’d think.
Let me guess, your response to that would be “Well just vote those people out! It’s your fault for keeping them in there!” And my response to that is, vote them out and replace them with who? No one has run against these people since they were first elected into office in the 1960’s. Oh sure we’ve tried to get people to turn against them, but they’ve stacked the system so it’s damn near impossible. The only thing we can do is wait until they die, which doesn’t seem to be any time soon.
You remind me of this guy I’ve debated with who had this outlandish claim that “If CEO’s are paid less, then they’d work less.” But there’s no actual proof to that, and trust me, he looked. He then went on to say he’d rather be paid in company stock than cash. Like he’d legit forego minimum wage to be paid in 100% stock.
So I’m going to say the same thing to you that I’ve said to him. You’ve been all up and down this thread blaming theft as the reason why food deserts are a thing, can you provide nonbiased studies proving that?
I’ve read all the threads and comments since I get notifications for every single one, and have yet to see you back up a claim with anything but insults and bluster. You’ve asserted a lot but proven nothing.
Why?
Because of the exorbitant amount of theft at those locations.
Bullshit. Those large stores come in to an area and drive out local competition, then when they don’t make the % to keep the shareholders happy they fold up and leave. Mom and pop shops are the backbone of communities and these pricks destroy that.
Does high crime in an area mean that people shouldn’t have access to stores that sell food?
Excellent point. If stealing is what keeps people fed, then the taxes that keep that store open are worth it. But also I think the reported rates of theft are wildly overstated, here in Australia we had our two largest stores basically admit they made up the whole “epidemic” so they’d have an excuse to raise prices.
It’s usually just an excuse over in the US, too.
https://www.cnbc.com/2023/08/10/retailers-may-be-using-organized-theft-to-cover-up-internal-flaws.html
“Crime is fine so dw about working we’ll just pay more taxes!”
Fucking stupid take.
If businesses are operating at a loss they cannot sustainably remain open.
Do you believe every USPS office is profitable? No, many are not, but people need access to mail. Roads don’t generate a profit either. Government services shouldn’t need to be profitable.
Sorry guys, this grocery store isn’t profitable, guess you don’t really need access to food
It’s almost like we should care more about people instead of profits
Cute strawman
They definitely seemed to be implying the city shouldn’t do this in their top post, so no, not a straw man.
Since when is the city in charge of businesses moving?
Stop it! There’s no more straws left!
No, it means they’ll have to get in a car and drive to the next location, hopefully without stealing from there too.
Not everyone in poor areas has a car. Or easy access to one, or the spare money for gas to drive out of their way to find a grocery store.
“Food deserts are most common in low socio-economic areas, where residents are unlikely to own a car or have one that is not always working.”
Then stop stealing
The real Uncle Iroh would not like you, to put it mildly.
Ah yes the real fictional character.
You know what I mean.
Read the thread before you comment lol
And I guess the people who can’t afford a car should just die, right?
Bus, walk, bike, if you cannot affort a car you’re likely not working enough so you have the time to use alternative modes of transport.
Where are you supposed to bike to when the nearest supermarket is 20 miles away?
And poor people often work 2 or 3 jobs. Again, you know nothing about being poor.
Unless you live in bumfuck arkanses the next supermarket is not 20 miles away, and even then it likely isn’t.
Poor people work so many jobs that I see them sitting on their porch at 1pm on a fucking Tuesday.
Ah, and there we go. Classism. Must be nice to be rich.
Or, like, get on a bus. Or walk. Or cycle. Or get food delivered from any one of many cheap delivery options. Or even a food bank or church. Or neighbour. Or family. Or friends. You think people without a car who don’t have a supermarket next door just die? I can’t even imagine the level of learned helplessness you seem to possess.
Buses take money. And walk where? Bicycle where? You think they could just walk to the nearest supermarket? Do you not understand that there isn’t food available for miles? Do you really not understand what the term ‘food desert’ means?
And delivered? Do you really not understand what being poor means?
So does food from the supermarket. That’s why we give poor people money. We should, IMHO, give them even more. Either way, with that money, they get on the bus.
Half of the world’s population walk miles for food and water. That’s certainly not a big ask on a bicycle. I commute six miles each way to work on a bike, every day. For millennia, humans roamed hundreds of miles on foot hunting for game. Yet you’re arguing someone today can’t cycle a few miles?? Lordy.
Delivery is often cheaper than the time and commute, so I’m not sure what you’re arguing there. Amazon offers free delivery, and you can buy every staple you need.
Wow. You’re actually asking poor Americans to live like they’re in third-world countries? I thought America was the richest nation?
And food delivery is not cheap. That’s just a lie.
Here was you response to me prior to you deleteing it:
This is a good argument for giving people money, not food stamps.
I don’t get this revulsion to walking. Most people walk every day for commutes, food, and errands. Walking does not mean your life is irredeemably terrible. In fact, data shows you will live longer and be happier. Ditto for cycling.
You live in a little town far away from civilisation. I think it’s unreasonable to expect city amenities in such places. There’s no logistical way to get supermarkets close to every home. Not when people have built homes so far away from everyone else.
And my response: No one is asking for supermarkets near their home. But a grocery store that’s reasonably priced is well within the realm of possible. You’re literally blaming people for where they live, even though they can’t afford to move. These aren’t new builds. These are generational homes. The people who built them are long dead and their grandkids or great grandkids now live in the same house because they are too poor to live elsewhere. My town has a pop of over 10k. It’s reasonable to expect a grocery store or 3, or even a supermarket, to be there. And I’ve explained in another comment why there isn’t. No one is against walking, but as I said in my other comment to you, I’d have to bike over 2hrs to the nearest grocery store, walking? It’d take me 8hrs. It is not reasonable to expect anyone to walk 8hrs to the nearest grocery store. (And yes, I Google mapped it so I’m not just talking out my ass.) I’m honestly just so flabbergasted that people blame others for where they live like they have a choice when they can’t even afford a car.
If you’re in favor of programs like helping people pay for food why are you so opposed to the city opening a grocery store?
You cannot use SNAP for bus fare. You also cannot get delivery using SNAP, besides Amazon, and you have to have a Whole Foods near you. The closest one for me, as an example, is in another state 3hrs away. So Amazon won’t deliver to me. There’s actually no bud where I live, so that’s out. And I just looked it up, it’d take me over 2hrs to bike to the nearest grocery store, and I’d have to do it on a highway. Oh and on top of that, I’d have to bring my toddlers.
Your points are great, if you live in a city. But most food deserts are in smaller rural towns. You’re asking people, in America a supposedly developed nation, to do the same things people in developing nations have to do to get food. It’s kinda ass backwards don’t ya think? That the “richest” nation is telling their population to live like some of the poorest nations.
Bused are cheap, walk to a store, bicycle to a store, I bike 12km to and from every day. But you’re conveniently ignoring every other argument the lad above made, so that shows your victim mentality.
You think poor people can afford get food delivered. You think a supermarket is within walking distance. You have no idea what being poor means or what a food desert is. People can be 20 miles from the nearest place to buy food in rural small towns. All they can do is buy junk food at the Dollar General and survive on that.
Poor doesn’t mean you can afford luxuries. Food desert doesn’t mean you can walk to a supermarket.
Or … walk to the nearby city owned grocery store that the city is considering opening?
I keep hearing this excuse but I’ve yet to see any actual numbers or data to prove this.
Have you looked?
I’m not the one making the argument here, you’ve made a statement, you back it up.
Nah, I’m good. You can use Google.
You made the claim, you provide the evidence to back that claim.
This is the e real reason, I don’t get why you’re being downvoted.
Because Stores say shoplifting is a national crisis. The numbers don’t back it up. The surge in theft is mostly just made up, and what isn’t made up is kind of an irrelevantly small number.
Stores expanded too much and then got hit by the pandemic, a tight labor market, and changes in buying patterns. Those sort of things have a lot larger impact on their profitability than whether shrink was 1.6% or 1.4%.
Removed by mod
The average shrink rate says nothing about a single store or single area’s shrink rate.
Some stores are higher than 1.4%, but it’s still in the low end of single digits, not like 15%. Raising prices a couple percent to compensate wouldn’t even be noticed.
Does shrink include the cost of security, security measures, vandalism or injured employees? You have this one thing you think describes the whole thing and the reality is you’ve chosen your bad guy and you’re going to confirmation bias yourself there.
Because wehh corporations wehh mom and pop shop (which they don’t go to because it’s inconvient) bla bla poor people. People like thinking they have a deeper understanding of something even if it’s objectively not true because it makes them feel intelligent, no matter how stupid it makes then look. The reason these stores closed is really simple, crime in low income areas caused these stores to not be profitable or simply not worth the endless hassle. I don’t even get why they’re mad though, they cry about mom and pop shops and when the large corporations leave and there is all the space for them they get mad the large corporations left. Idiotic.
So I’d like to chime in here as someone who lives in a low income food desert. The food desert isn’t because of theft. In fact, many chains have tried to open up here over the decades. The city government is so hostile towards them though, that these stores don’t even get to the opening stages. The city wants to charge these stores exorbitant fees for no reason. Charge 10x as much for electricity than the town with a smaller population 15minutes away. Is this everywhere, no, but it is in more places than you’d think.
Let me guess, your response to that would be “Well just vote those people out! It’s your fault for keeping them in there!” And my response to that is, vote them out and replace them with who? No one has run against these people since they were first elected into office in the 1960’s. Oh sure we’ve tried to get people to turn against them, but they’ve stacked the system so it’s damn near impossible. The only thing we can do is wait until they die, which doesn’t seem to be any time soon.
You remind me of this guy I’ve debated with who had this outlandish claim that “If CEO’s are paid less, then they’d work less.” But there’s no actual proof to that, and trust me, he looked. He then went on to say he’d rather be paid in company stock than cash. Like he’d legit forego minimum wage to be paid in 100% stock.
So I’m going to say the same thing to you that I’ve said to him. You’ve been all up and down this thread blaming theft as the reason why food deserts are a thing, can you provide nonbiased studies proving that?
Sounds like a load of bullshit excuses to me.
Sounds like you can’t find anything to back your bullshit up.
Read the rest of the thread then lmao, I refuse to keep repeating myself to the mind numbingly arrogant and short sighted community that is Lemmy
I’ve read it. You haven’t provided any nonbiased studies to back you claim.
I’ve read all the threads and comments since I get notifications for every single one, and have yet to see you back up a claim with anything but insults and bluster. You’ve asserted a lot but proven nothing.