I think it’s that guys like this one aren’t a hill anyone is eager to die on. Like, it’s bad, but let’s not make this guy the poster boy for ending the practice. There are other cases I’m much happier to cite in arguments opposing the death penalty.
I am never worried about guilty people on death row. I am worried about those that kill them, those that help kill them, those that witness the killing, and those who believe falsely that this form of justice will heal anyone from harms or prevent future harms.
You forgot to worry about those who are raised in a society where it’s okay to kill people for any reason other than preventing another person from being harmed.
Even a single innocent person getting murdered by the state makes the practice barbaric. The state is imperfect. It should not have a license to murder.
We’re all in agreement, but as OP said, this
particular person isn’t the time to make your stand on. We’ve all been vocally against the death penalty for a long time, but this specific person is not the one to make an especially strong “this is the line, no further” kind of stand for. I’m against him being killed like I’m against all cases of the government killing prisoners, but I’m also not doing any extra standing up for this particular person.
So you only stand by your views as long as it’s convenient and easy?
I guess the right of attorneys is important but if the state violates his rights to that in this trial then you are not gonna have an issue with that either?
He is standing by his views. Just not going out of his way to defend this person. Let’s see you go to the courtroom and protest this particular guy’s death penalty if you are so dedicated.
If I lived there, I would. Not protesting this shows that you’re actually okay with the death penalty, and your typical admonishment of it doesn’t reflect your true beliefs.
People that understand strategy. Rosa Parks wasn’t the first person to be arrested for violating the seat law, but she was unimpeachable as a person and made an effective figurehead.
Every time the government falsely asserts a moral right to tie someone down and end their life is an appropriate time to speak out against that abhorrence as it is abhorant every time it happens.
this particular person isn’t the time to make your stand on.
Those of us who are vehemently against the death penalty tend to be vocal about it every time it comes up, not just when it’s happening to awful people. It’s important to make it clear that even in cases like this, the death penalty should not be a thing, because otherwise we tacitly agree that sometimes, the death penalty is a good thing.
This particular person is absolutely the time to make our stand against the death penalty, because if we don’t, then we don’t stand against it at all.
Something tells me you wouldn’t be espousing this “it’s fine for the state to murder innocent people from time to time” if it were you, your partner, or your child on death row.
I have a friend who went to protest outside the federal prison when Timothy McVeigh was executed. He had no love for McVeigh. He thought McVeigh was a monster. That wasn’t the point. The point was that capital punishment is always wrong. The state should not have the power of life and death over its citizenry.
And I have great respect for him for doing so. Protesting capital punishment in cases like this are just as important as in lesser cases because the reason for the punishment isn’t at issue.
I’ll be glad when death penalty is abolished. But we’ve still got time till then, and this guy live streaming himself doing the murders doesn’t leave much in the way of wiggle room for innocence.
Gonna be tragic when we learn it was secretly racist nano robots controlling his whole body by time traveling confederates.
I used to be against the death penalty. Read an article once about why it’s racist. Don’t remember them saying why it was racist but eventually they got to what the guy had done. He cut open a pregnant woman to steal her baby for his junkie girlfriend. I have been pro death penalty ever since.
I remembet getting most of the way through and wondering if they were ever going to say why it’s racist but they really didn’t give any evidence for it. Then i wss horrified by the unthinkable crime.
I never understood why people believe we have some super special value when some of us are quite obviously a waste of space. Look up at the stars and how can you claim we have some special, meaningful place, above all the rest. We are nothing.
I used to be pro death penalty. The thing that convinced me was that it was so much more expensive to kill someone then jail them for life. Can you tell I grew up a good little republican? Of course the usual right-wing response is just take them out back and shoot them and while I might’ve given that some lip service, I knew then justice was imperfect. Appeals and last minute clemency were getting people off of death row all the time (or at least it seemed so).
Eventually I came to learn of people who’d been executed (no clemency, no appeal, no last minute heroics) and there was no solid evidence a crime had even been committed much less that they were guilty. And the math doesn’t lie that it’s extremely racist, and if racial bias exists then clearly justice isn’t being served. I’m firmly against the death penalty for moral reasons now, but we all have our journey, right?
Sure, 1-5% of people executed by the state were either innocent or their guilt was under extreme doubt, but it’s worth it if it means killing violent people, right? I mean, I would gladly accept a wrongful death penalty if it means that someone who’s violent gets to be tortured to death with me
I think it’s that guys like this one aren’t a hill anyone is eager to die on. Like, it’s bad, but let’s not make this guy the poster boy for ending the practice. There are other cases I’m much happier to cite in arguments opposing the death penalty.
Perhaps one of the many innocent folks on death row, which includes a not insignificant amount of African Americans too.
But this guy can fuck right off, I am not losing a second of sleep to his suffering.
I am never worried about guilty people on death row. I am worried about those that kill them, those that help kill them, those that witness the killing, and those who believe falsely that this form of justice will heal anyone from harms or prevent future harms.
You forgot to worry about those who are raised in a society where it’s okay to kill people for any reason other than preventing another person from being harmed.
You should lose sleep a political authority which fancies itself arbiter of justice is inflicting that suffering on purpose.
States should not do that.
Even a single innocent person getting murdered by the state makes the practice barbaric. The state is imperfect. It should not have a license to murder.
We’re all in agreement, but as OP said, this
particular person isn’t the time to make your stand on. We’ve all been vocally against the death penalty for a long time, but this specific person is not the one to make an especially strong “this is the line, no further” kind of stand for. I’m against him being killed like I’m against all cases of the government killing prisoners, but I’m also not doing any extra standing up for this particular person.
So you only stand by your views as long as it’s convenient and easy?
I guess the right of attorneys is important but if the state violates his rights to that in this trial then you are not gonna have an issue with that either?
He is standing by his views. Just not going out of his way to defend this person. Let’s see you go to the courtroom and protest this particular guy’s death penalty if you are so dedicated.
If I lived there, I would. Not protesting this shows that you’re actually okay with the death penalty, and your typical admonishment of it doesn’t reflect your true beliefs.
Maybe alienating your allies is why the death penalty still exists
who’s upvoting this coward bullshit?
People that understand strategy. Rosa Parks wasn’t the first person to be arrested for violating the seat law, but she was unimpeachable as a person and made an effective figurehead.
And I’m calling that coward bullshit. We can do better.
https://www.independentsentinel.com/did-you-know-rosa-parks-wasnt-the-first-to-refuse-to-sit-in-the-back-of-the-bus/
Every time the government falsely asserts a moral right to tie someone down and end their life is an appropriate time to speak out against that abhorrence as it is abhorant every time it happens.
Those of us who are vehemently against the death penalty tend to be vocal about it every time it comes up, not just when it’s happening to awful people. It’s important to make it clear that even in cases like this, the death penalty should not be a thing, because otherwise we tacitly agree that sometimes, the death penalty is a good thing.
This particular person is absolutely the time to make our stand against the death penalty, because if we don’t, then we don’t stand against it at all.
A single guilty person being murdered by the state makes it a barbaric practice because the state tying down and killing someone is barbaric.
Do you want judge Dredd instead?
Removed by mod
Wtf.
‘it’s not perfect so we can’t’ is absolutely not the ‘dumbest fucking’ argument if we are talking about actual human lives.
Something tells me you wouldn’t be espousing this “it’s fine for the state to murder innocent people from time to time” if it were you, your partner, or your child on death row.
What a disgustingly callous attitude.
The root of all of a state’s power is the right to employ violence. It is a barbaric practice but to be fair we are a barbaric species.
Some people should not be allowed to curse the earth with their existence.
I have a friend who went to protest outside the federal prison when Timothy McVeigh was executed. He had no love for McVeigh. He thought McVeigh was a monster. That wasn’t the point. The point was that capital punishment is always wrong. The state should not have the power of life and death over its citizenry.
And I have great respect for him for doing so. Protesting capital punishment in cases like this are just as important as in lesser cases because the reason for the punishment isn’t at issue.
I’ll be glad when death penalty is abolished. But we’ve still got time till then, and this guy live streaming himself doing the murders doesn’t leave much in the way of wiggle room for innocence.
Gonna be tragic when we learn it was secretly racist nano robots controlling his whole body by time traveling confederates.
I used to be against the death penalty. Read an article once about why it’s racist. Don’t remember them saying why it was racist but eventually they got to what the guy had done. He cut open a pregnant woman to steal her baby for his junkie girlfriend. I have been pro death penalty ever since.
You were manipulated to support the death penalty by a story you don’t even remember lol.
I remembet getting most of the way through and wondering if they were ever going to say why it’s racist but they really didn’t give any evidence for it. Then i wss horrified by the unthinkable crime.
I never understood why people believe we have some super special value when some of us are quite obviously a waste of space. Look up at the stars and how can you claim we have some special, meaningful place, above all the rest. We are nothing.
You didn’t say you actually wanted evidence that the death penalty is racist, which makes me think you don’t, but here it is anyway-
https://www.amnestyusa.org/issues/death-penalty/death-penalty-facts/death-penalty-and-race/
https://www.nacdl.org/Content/Race-and-the-Death-Penalty
https://apnews.com/article/united-states-lifestyle-race-and-ethnicity-discrimination-racial-injustice-ded1f517a0fd64bf1d55c448a06acccc
What a childish thought process.
I used to be pro death penalty. The thing that convinced me was that it was so much more expensive to kill someone then jail them for life. Can you tell I grew up a good little republican? Of course the usual right-wing response is just take them out back and shoot them and while I might’ve given that some lip service, I knew then justice was imperfect. Appeals and last minute clemency were getting people off of death row all the time (or at least it seemed so).
Eventually I came to learn of people who’d been executed (no clemency, no appeal, no last minute heroics) and there was no solid evidence a crime had even been committed much less that they were guilty. And the math doesn’t lie that it’s extremely racist, and if racial bias exists then clearly justice isn’t being served. I’m firmly against the death penalty for moral reasons now, but we all have our journey, right?
Sure, 1-5% of people executed by the state were either innocent or their guilt was under extreme doubt, but it’s worth it if it means killing violent people, right? I mean, I would gladly accept a wrongful death penalty if it means that someone who’s violent gets to be tortured to death with me