But F the poor I guess

  • Limeey@lemmy.world
    597·
    2 years ago

    Don’t you see? Rich people create jobs! Migrants just sit around and collect money from the hard work of everyone around them!

    Oh wait, it’s the opposite isn’t it…

    • Screak42@lemmy.ml
      14·
      2 years ago

      Best I can do is spent some of the claps I have left from the generous clapping during covid.

      • Limeey@lemmy.world
        15·
        2 years ago

        If you think any billionaire “worked” for the amount of money they have, you’re sorely mistaken. It’s a byproduct of a flawed economic system, not their “work ethic.” Not to say capitalism doesn’t have it’s benefits, but it’s the system in which capitalism is allowed to operate that produces inequalities like that.

      • risottinopazzesco@feddit.itEnglish
        13·
        2 years ago

        Yes. Considering the net loss in population and the its aging, an influx of new people generates new consumption and opportunities for market growth, and sustains socialized systems like pensions and health care, albeit over a long period.

        On the other hand, billionaires hoard disgusting fortunes like fucking dragons to the detriment of society at large. They thus deserve to be slayed, like we would dragons.

        Did you know some of the original guillotines already exist?

    • da_g@feddit.it
      418·
      2 years ago

      Tbh rich people do create jobs and migrants take those jobs usually

      • Limeey@lemmy.world
        141·
        2 years ago

        The rich can only “create jobs” because we have an economic and political system that skews reward toward investment rather than labor. Both are important, but let’s not pretend that anyone can earn a billions without excessive wage theft from the people doing the actual labor.

        • da_g@feddit.it
          215·
          2 years ago

          It’s just supply and demand we have very few entrepreneurs while a tone of uneducated workers, obviously they are going to get paid less, they took 0 risks investment side

          • dtc@lemmy.world
            2·
            2 years ago

            Funny how the ceo couldn’t assume and financial risk towards better safety measures, eh?

            Like when his engineers recommended them and got shitcanned for it.

            Achieving safety goals is for the poors.

      • arcrust@lemmy.fmhy.ml
        4·
        2 years ago

        I up voted you because you aren’t wrong. At least in the sense of sweat shops. May not be good jobs, but they do technically count as jobs.

        • da_g@feddit.it
          17·
          2 years ago

          Not only sweat shops, if there is a little of human rights they can create pretty good working conditions and with competition salary rise up

  • jarvis@lemmy.world
    364·
    2 years ago

    It’s because those billionaires are down there boosting the economy and creating jobs… for search and rescue teams.

    • chemical_cutthroat@lemmy.world
      61·
      2 years ago

      I’m honestly thankful for the educational content that has come out of this. I’d always known that I didn’t want to cram myself into a tiny, pressurized soup can, but now I can point to the exact reasons why.

  • Snipe_AT@lemmy.world
    326·
    2 years ago

    while i understand the sentiment, it is quite novel when a submarine is lost vs when a surface ship is lost

    • voxov7@lemmy.world
      172·
      2 years ago

      you’ve got to get yourself killed in a hot way to get my attention sweetie, okay? Non of that self preservation shit the poors are into

        • XTL@sopuli.xyz
          21·
          2 years ago

          I think I here more about submarines being found where there weren’t supposed to be any.

      • Limeey@lemmy.world
        31·
        2 years ago

        Have you tried live streaming your drowning? Maybe that would get more attention from folks. Gotta pull yourself up by them booty straps!

          • DudePluto@lemmy.world
            81·
            2 years ago

            I don’t care how much you pay in taxes. If you calculated what percentage of your actual income went to trying to save people (specifically in this instance) the number would be infinitesimal. And you better believe that if this incident is found to be the result of corporate negligence there will be lawsuits and more.

            The fact that people turn legitimate anger and frustration from class warfare into hatred and indifference toward the suffering of fellow human beings is fucking disgusting. And I guarantee if you were in their boat and needed rescuing you’d spit in the direction of everyone holding their hands out for you to pay them to save you

            • emberwit@feddit.de
              22·
              2 years ago

              indifference toward the suffering of fellow human beings

              Sine qua non for being a billionaire

              • DudePluto@lemmy.world
                4·
                2 years ago

                I am certainly in agreement that billionaires are unhealthy for society and have no reason to exist. Their wealth should be redistributed. But I will not let my ideology eclipse my humanity. Nor should anyone.

              • ImFresh3x@sh.itjust.works
                01·
                2 years ago

                You don’t. You aren’t paying anything. Because you don’t pay for USGC. And we’re not getting rid of the coast guard. Move somewhere where essential governance doesn’t exist. Some libertarian utopia without building codes and roads. And die from eating toxic food.

          • DudePluto@lemmy.world
            5·
            2 years ago

            I’m fine with my tax dollars going to rescuing both. It would be a much better use of my money than more bombs

  • VubDapple@lemmy.world
    231·
    2 years ago

    Overheard:

    “They paid for the full Titanic experience and that’s what they got. What’s the problem?”

  • StankFlipper@lemmy.ml
    18·
    2 years ago

    If these dumbasses have enough money to drop on a ticket aboard this sub to look at something you can see on a documentary, they should also have to foot the bill for the rescue mission. I’m sure all these rescue programs are tax funded that they dodge themselves. So, not only are they squirreling and eating up money we could all be using, but now we’re picking up the check.

  • Ronno@kbin.social
    228·
    2 years ago

    It’s easy to polarize with such a headline/picture. Reality is way more nuanced than this:

    Migrants are in fact being saved from shipwrecks, it is (sadly) in the news every week or so. The main problem is that these migrants don’t have communication devices with them to signal emergencies, unlike the submarine. The boat on the surface alarmed emergency services when they lost connection with the sub, starting the rescue operation. It is difficult to rescue a boat of migrants, when you don’t even know that they are in danger in the first place.

    Secondly, the harsh reality is that most migrants try to enter a country illegally. Which by definition, is a huge risk on their part. The rich people on the sub were not doing anything illegal. However, in both cases, the people in or on the boat accepted the risks involved in their endeavor.

      • gun@lemmy.ml
        31·
        2 years ago

        How are you going to continue to enforce gun control in your country if there are zero borders?

              • Ronno@kbin.social
                1·
                2 years ago

                IMO, those are very different situations, with slavery their freedom was taken. Most of the migrants (not refugees) are free, they are simply in search for a better life. Which is understandable, don’t get me wrong. But the picture that is painted is too bright, people hop on a boat to “paradise” and are promised a life of riches. The reality is, this is not the situation they will find themselves in. Even if we were to allow them into the country, they would still live poor lives. Sure some will succeed, but most of them don’t have the foundational knowledge/skills/command of the language of the country to get a job and find a place to live.

                Meanwhile, looking at my own country The Netherlands, we see that natives are also struggling for housing. My generation is basically fucked, young families cannot buy nor rent a home to start their family in. This will impact The Netherlands for years/decades to come, it will be reflected in birth rate and future workforce. Allowing other people in the country now would be catastrophic.

                On the other hand, recently there was an article about an approach by French farmers which I like. They sourced Moroccan workers, that could work in France for a couple months (IIRC max stay was 3 months), during this time, the workers would receive fair pay. After the work permit ends, the workers have to go back to Morocco. Then they are only allowed to go back to work in France after a period of time, with a new workers permit.

                The key benefit is that workers bring the money back home, benefitting Morocco financially, and France with workforce. Most of this work by the farmers is seasonal anyway.

          • usualsuspect191@lemmy.ca
            34·
            2 years ago

            … Of course it is? We have things like taxation and social safety nets that allow a society to function. Never mind the simple fact that some places are stressed for resources as it is. That’s not to say it can’t be done better, but it’s naive to think it’s “simple”. Never mind that simple doesn’t necessarily mean easy…

              • usualsuspect191@lemmy.ca
                1·
                2 years ago

                I’m having a difficult time thinking of any form of society where people don’t pool at least some portion of their surplus to help the group as a whole (and lift those up who have a deficit). Are you saying that shouldn’t be a thing?

  • escape_tape@feddit.de
    145·
    2 years ago

    Think about it. If we just imprisoned all rich people, they didn’t have to be rescued from their shitty, expensive vacation trips.

    • skogens_ro@kbin.social
      47·
      2 years ago

      That’s just the start my dude. Once we disregard insignificant values like human rights and personal freedom, solving the issue of other people making problematic choices becomes trivial.

      Imagine all the crime we would prevent if we just locked up anyone who earns less than say 50k euros.

  • Redex@lemmy.world
    2314·
    2 years ago

    That’s not really comparable. When any citizen of a country gets lost either at sea or on land, large probably also multi million dollar searches are performed.

    The difference is more to do with whether they’re immigrants or natives.

    • SkyeStarfall@lemmy.blahaj.zone
      242·
      2 years ago

      But it is also absurd that we, on one hand, agree that all human lives have equal worth… and on the other straight up consider a citicizen to be worth more than 1000 non-citizens.

      I don’t know how one can possibly argue that it is humane and in line with what we say our values are.

      • Redex@lemmy.world
        33·
        2 years ago

        I think it also has to do with the fact they’re illegally crossing. If an American or a Filipino got lost in Europe they’d still search for them. Hell, every year here in Croatia we have to rescue Czechs who climb up mountains in flip flops.
        I guess the reason is that what they’re doing is illegal, and you don’t have enough resources to track and save every single migrant ship.
        I mean, I don’t remember hearing Frontex or national coast guards completely ignoring sinking ships, they often try to save them from what I know, they just don’t have as many resources.

        But I do think rescue capabilities could be improved. I don’t know how hard it is, but I feel like with modern technology, setting up radar combined with satellite imagery shouldn’t be that hard. Ships stick out of the water a lot, so tracking the ships that are out of place shouldn’t be too hard.

        Regarding immigration, once I believed we should take in all refugees, but now I’ve come to realise that it’s more complicated. Untill we figure out how to properly assimilate them into society, it will only lead to problems and disappointment on both sides. If immigrants huddle up into segregated communities they won’t assimilate, they’ll be poor, and that’s the source of all conflict. I don’t believe they’re any different from us, nor that their cultures are completely incompatible, but if they become segregated they will be ostracized from society, they’ll be poor and resent society for shunning them. They came to this land from so far away, hearing promises of how great it is, and then they live worse than they did back home. That leads to crime, more resentment and racism, leading to them having an even harder time. It’s a brutal cycle.

        • Cyclohexane@lemmy.mlM
          63·
          2 years ago

          I think it also has to do with the fact they’re illegally crossing

          You do realize what these billionaires were doing was illegal too? It is riddled with safety and security violations, but were only able to bypass it because they did it entirely on their own.

          But hey, the lives of hundreds of thousands does not matter if the some random corrupt legislator did not create a legal path for them to immigrate. Totally makes sense.

        • emberwit@feddit.de
          32·
          2 years ago

          I don’t remember hearing Frontex or national coast guards completely ignoring sinking ships

          Are you serious? Or do you mean to say you did not hear about them ignoring ships since they are usually watching them drowning or even actively trying to sink them?

          They came to this land from so far away, hearing promises of how great it is, and then they live worse than they did back home.

          Ahh, so you are just helping them by denying basic human rights of seeking for asylum and a better life. That’s too kind of you.

        • Cyclohexane@lemmy.mlM
          11·
          2 years ago

          If an American or a Filipino got lost in Europe they’d still search for them.

          American, sure. Filipino? Hard doubt. Source?

    • OsrsNeedsF2P@lemmy.ml
      19·
      2 years ago

      Small correction, it has to do with whether they’re citizens or not.

      But being a billionaire also helps.

      • Cyclohexane@lemmy.mlM
        04·
        2 years ago

        Non-citizen lives don’t matter? Do you ever check someone’s passport before saving them from drowning? Ridiculous.

          • Cyclohexane@lemmy.mlM
            32·
            2 years ago

            This isn’t true. This is only a recent politicized phenomena. It never used to happen where people would excuse letting migrants drown. And I highly doubt any government rescue team checks your passport before dumping you back in the water. This only happens because of how highly politicized this issue is.

            • OsrsNeedsF2P@lemmy.ml
              2·
              2 years ago

              You’re right actually, I can’t find a source that says governments have a duty to protect their citizens, so by extension, there’s no argument to only use your forces to protect citizens and not non-citizens

    • DudePluto@lemmy.world
      11·
      2 years ago

      And the fact that these responses are from two completely different countries and continents. Unless you’re talking about the media response, which OP has specifically said he’s not. He’s more concerned about having to pay taxes.

      If you’re not talking about media response then the whole conversation is pointless. It’s not “hypocrisy” that Canada and the US responded differently from Greece to a crisis next to their waters

      • Cyclohexane@lemmy.mlM
        12·
        2 years ago

        Are you asserting that the US wouldn’t do this, or is this just for deflection’s sake?

        • DudePluto@lemmy.world
          7·
          2 years ago

          Neither. I’m insisting on intellectual honesty by asking how the US and Canada’s response to a missing sub off their own waters is relevant to the Greek response to missing migrants off theirs.

          • Cyclohexane@lemmy.mlM
            21·
            2 years ago

            Would you like some examples of the US treatment of migrants from Mexico? I thought you’d be aware.

    • Cyclohexane@lemmy.mlM
      39·
      2 years ago

      The difference is more to do with whether they’re immigrants or natives.

      So migrant lives not mattering to people like you is true. Good to know you at least confirm that part of the meme. Disgusting.

      • chemical_cutthroat@lemmy.world
        121·
        2 years ago

        Hold on a moment. They didn’t say that they didn’t care about the lives. They were stating the viewpoint of the governments that send out the S&R.

        • Cyclohexane@lemmy.mlM
          12·
          2 years ago

          They’re providing that as justification.

          If they meant it as “ahh I hate the governments who ____” then I sincerely withdraw my statement and apologize for misunderstanding. But they clearly did not mean that.

    • Limeey@lemmy.world
      12·
      2 years ago

      Rich dude created a company that provides submarine tours of the titanic wreckage, except he built it and operated it stupidly (off the shelf “camping” parts, bad weather conditions). Now he’s trapped in the submarine with like 4 other folks where no one knows where they are, and they are expected to run out of oxygen in like 12 hours from posting this.

      Super tragic but like, totally avoidable.

    • cnnrduncan@beehaw.org
      82·
      2 years ago

      A bunch of super wealthy dudes (including a bloke who went to space with Mr. Amazon and two members of one of Pakistan’s biggest petrochemical families) got into an obvious death trap after signing a waiver that said that there’s a decent chance that it’d kill them and now that it’s gone missing multiple governments are spending millions of dollars on an attempt to rescue them on the off chance that they’re actually still alive because the lives of the wealthy matter more than the lives of normal people.

      • ZapBeebz@beehaw.org
        51·
        2 years ago

        Or maybe it has to do more with the region in which they’re lost. The USCG is typically very good about aiding anyone within their AOR, no matter their socioeconomic class. This should be framed more as “why isn’t Europe/Greece doing their jobs” than “why are the USCG/Canada actually doing their jobs”.

    • jeebus@kbin.social
      61·
      2 years ago

      Some rich people got put into a submersible where the glass hatch is bolted to the vehicle. The pilot then proceeds to turn on the Xbox controller to activate the vehicle. None of these rich people thought they should ask if the vehicle had and safety precautions, or perhaps a fucking steering wheel. The media has gone nuts over this story. Like “balloon boy” nuts.

    • SSUPII@sopuli.xyz
      1·
      2 years ago

      They were an vacation and wanted to see the Titanic in the bottom of the sea. They got no longer on radar and since then they were unable to be found

  • HelloImFrank@kbin.social
    157·
    2 years ago

    Nobody cares that they are millionaires!
    You think the coastguard is only helping them because they are millionaires? No they are trying to help because it’s their job!

    I guess all those miners getting stuck in mines during collapses and millions of equipment was shipped over to try and save them over weeks of time was because the miners were all millionaires.

    You have a fucked up view of the world if you think only millionaires get helped in emergency situations.

    • revelrous@sopuli.xyz
      72·
      2 years ago

      If you go up a mountain to poke tigers, and a tiger shockingly eats you, should society drop everything and race up the mountain to find your pieces? It’s disingenuous to equate this to the miners.

    • szczur@kbin.social
      4·
      2 years ago

      Well, you know. In this particular case the Coastal Guard did not do their job. That’s what gets the uproar.

  • em2@lemmy.ml
    81·
    2 years ago

    Maybe they’re afraid of the families of the rich suing them /shrug

    • Asenath@kbin.social
      0·
      2 years ago

      Since the CEO went down with his s̶h̶i̶p̶ sub, the lawyers will have to get creative.

  • 🐱TheCat@sh.itjust.works
    71·
    2 years ago

    But silver lining, we now know we can get the rich to take care of themselves if we offer them sketchy exploration opportunities too exclusive for the poors

  • NotaLLM@kbin.social
    61·
    2 years ago

    The US federal government values the average citizen’s life at something like ~$12 million. This is mostly for policy like if 1,000 people a year die from something, say an unsafe ferris wheel design, a solution that would save them costing more than (1,000*12,000,000=)$12 billion would be rejected and considered not worth the economic cost. If the solution were cheaper, and cost like $500 million, then with good lobbying and a reasonable administration, it could easily become a new regulation.

    Generally speaking if 5 anybodies went down like this submersible, you’d expect at least some millions to be spent in recovery missions.

    https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2020/07/17/870483369/your-life-is-worth-10-million-according-to-the-government

    The ~$12 million figure is what the NHTSA is currently using for its purposes.