Maybe Germany should offer part of Germany for Israel to exist in.
There’s lots of unused space in brandenburg
Mein Lebensraum?! Warum denn?? /s
Well, Germany does have some history there
Which is exactly why Germany should make a sustained, honest and deep commitment to make Germany a sanctuary for Jews (and Roma people by the way), and a place where Jews would be guaranteed safety. Instead of outsourcing its responsibility to a country in some faraway war-torn region, Germany should establish a right of refuge in Germany for any person of Jewish decent anywhere in the world.
If they made a law saying that to become a German citizen, one must assume the historical burden of the Holocaust and wholeheartedly take on this historic debt to Jews (and other impacted peoples, again let’s not forget the Roma people), nobody would bat an eyelid.
Frankly this goes more generally to insane statements like the ones made by US President Biden that Israel is the safest country in the world for Jews. Motherfuckers, there is literally nothing stopping you from making your own countries safe for Jews. If I were the chancellor of Germany I would be PROUD for Germany to be SAFER for Jews than Israel.
Zionism is a political philosophy. Israel is a secular political state. Judaism is a religion. Jewish is an ethnicity as well as followers of a religion.
One can support Jews and Judaism without supporting the rightwing Israeli government or the country. Millions of Jews worldwide already do.
Germany condemns Iran, does that mean they’re anti-Persian? No.
Germany is being consistent in its support for a diaspora of European Jewish people forming a settler-colonial apartheid ethnostate. The Nazis tried to do that very thing themselves (against Jewush people and slavs, of course) and even worked with Zionists to get Jewish people to “self-deport”, providing substantial financial assistance for this early part of the Holocaust. They even used the same forms of self-serving rationalizations for genocide, simultaneously portraying themselves as a victim and ethnically superior.
Yeah, there’s some context where this isn’t 100% awful.
No, there really isn’t. The Nazis collaborated with the founding Zionists, Israel has always been a genocidal settler-colonial project and Germany has retained support of it.
Yes, it is complicated which is why I said “not 100% awful” instead of completely justified or something like that.
It’s 100% awful, it’s just a continuation of Nazi ideology.
Everything is black and white, gray is for apologists, then?
It’s pretty cut and dry that the original Zionists were anti-yiddish anti-Communist anti-semites that allied with prominent anti-semites against diaspora in order to pursue their settler-colonial project, which the Nazis gleefully worked for.
You see, many of the original Zionists were Jewish, it’s literally not so cut and dry.
Yes, antisemetic Jewish people living in different countries deliberately spreading antisemetic lies that they can’t integrate and need an ethnostate. The fact that they were Jewish doesn’t make settler-colonial genocide “not cut and dry.”
So, your argument that it’s not complicated is that Israel was founded by antisemitic Jews? I’m not even saying that you’re factually wrong, but you keep insisting that this isn’t complicated. It is complicated, and the more you insist that it’s simple, while giving increasing amounts of fine details is not particularly convincing
I think you’ll find that all of the “original Zionists” were Christian @GarrulousBrevity
What we now call “Zionism” grew after the Protestant Reformation, and is rooted in 17th-century English Puritanism.It had two significant streams:
- the return of Jews to Palestine (basically, a way to rid Europe of its Jews - a form of antisemitism, a couple of centuries before that term was coined);
- the second coming of Jesus (Jews who want to survive don’t remain Jewish).
At the time, Jewish communities weren’t impressed. In the 19th century, Herzl and his friends exploited the movement to their own ends.
@CowbeeTheodor Herzl, considered the grandfather of modern zionism, was an atheist
@Tangentism
It was Ilan Pappé, I think, who quipped:
“Zionists don’t believe in God, but they’ll all tell you that God gave them Israel.”
🇮🇱 Zionists are as Jewish as is convenient at any moment.
@GarrulousBrevityI think you’re conflating being Jewish with Judaism. His religious beliefs aren’t really what’s in question here, @[email protected]’s comment sums the idea up well. Herzl was, with no ambiguity, a member of the Jewish community.
“It’s complicated”
-Every fascist defending fascism
Ah yes, calling a stranger a Nazi on the Internet. A compelling point
Maybe you should get a new playbook if you don’t like it
I am not a Nazi, but you are a caricature of an internet argument
There is nothing inherently correct or false when it comes to black and white vs. gray. These are not real moral or epistemological quantities. Sometimes there are salient and clear-cut characterizations and this is the better way to think of a topic. Sometimes it is better to adopt multiple angles because no single view is usefully capturing a topic.
Instead of being indirect and appealing to false logic, why not just say what you actually find objectionable?
I’m sure the AfD is absolutely thrilled.
