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There was a theory that roughly 15 years after Roe v Wade crime started decreasing because people who weren’t ready for or didn’t want children could now have an abortion. Many of those kids that were previously born “unwanted” were in poor households and so the kids getting to about 15 years old in those conditions would start getting into trouble and start committing crimes.
For any fuckwit that says “make better decisions then! Use protection!” I’m the result of a broken condom, that shit absolutely happens. I was a “pleasant surprise.” Honestly I wish they’d have just had the abortion.
A debunked theory
Absolutely not, Slovakia saw the same thing. When abortion was strictly outlawed, crime skyrocketed in 18 years due to children being born in awful conditions.
The prolife movement is a probirth movement only. Because they don’t give a fuck about the kid after birth.
I think you may have the wrong country. I can’t find anything about a complete abortion ban in Slovakia (except for a rejected proposal in 2020), nor a sharp increase in crime, apart from that following promptly after the overthrow of the communists.
You’re right it wasn’t Slovakia but I know it was one of the countries that formed a theocracy after communism fell. I wanna say Yugoslavia or Slovenia. One of those countries.
It doesn’t get brought up because it’s not useful to anyone politically. Already support abortion rights? Well then lower crime rates is just a positive unintended side effect of a policy that grants women their inherent right to bodily autonomy. Already oppose abortion rights? Then you probably don’t care about crime rates because you already think that abortion itself is a crime.
Probably not, but I just thought it was interesting to bring up in relation to young age births that may or may not have been intentional.
My sister had her first child because her birth control failed due to another medication making it less effective.
No one warned her about that being a thing that can happen with that particular med. Not her doctor. Not the pharmacist. No one said a thing… which is super fucked up. She was married at the time, but still. They were not ready for a kid(their words)
This was almost 20 years ago so I don’t remember which med it was, and I’m hoping the medical community is better about this now.
PSA: Antibiotics will make your birth control less effective.
Also no they do not warn most people about that.
Came here to say this. It’s not some edge case medicine that people rarely encounter. Just you had a sinus infection and now you’re pregnant!
Wait a moment, antibiotics will break condoms? /s
I thought I read that grapefruit can also cause problems with certain ones
I have been called a weirdo many times for always reading the information that comes with medications. I still do, even for stuff i have taken many times like Tylenol.
Of course doctors and pharmacists should inform their patients and have an eye on these things. But the full legally required known documentation is always with the medication. And humans are prone to error, especially in a field as complex as medicine/pharma.
Read the things before starting the medication. Always.
I read them too after what happened to my sister.
However, I think that certain types of side effects(life altering ones Tardive dyskinesia) and medications that are known to mess with hormonal birth control should have their own little text box right on the front where people can clearly see it.
Throwing a long ass pamphlet in there and calling it informed consent doesn’t really cut it for me. There’s a lot of room for improvement.
It’s really honestly amazing that there are so many people in this world that don’t understand that, A, married couples use birth control and have regular sex and, B, that birth control can fail.
Are they all incels are something?
“Your child its a miracle from god!” - anti abortionists
Unfortunately, a lot of people who are under the influence of religion believe that marriage is for creating children, and many of those people very received little to no sex ed.
The ideas that “every child is a blessing” and “God will provide” are used to handwave away the importance of people’s bodily autonomy and to deflect the reality that people can and should have access to the resources to chose if, when and how many children they have.
I’ve taken to calling them reproductive luddites. They’re afraid of contraceptive technology.
Detailed in Freaknomics where Romania is used as an example.
I fail to see how this crime fighting measure involves more cops, guns and racism so I don’t think you’ll be able to convince the “tough on crime” “pro life” GOP supreme court on this.
Honestly I wish they’d have just had the abortion.
Asafum, I don’t know you, but I am almost certain the world is a better place with you in it.
Hope you encounter a nice autumn breeze (assuming from the instance) or a nice whatever you like this week. Despite, I agree, the world being a bit of a hole in general.
Me, I’ve been enjoying the sun on the leaves this spring.
Kind regards, This Australian anon
I appreciate the kind words! I was pleasantly surprised to find my phone has an astrophotography mode so I’ve been trying to enjoy that on clear nights :)
Oh that sounds neato, thanks for sharing friend
Don’t worry, Republicans will solve this by banning abortion and birth control nationwide!
They are always thinking of the children.
And legalizing marriage to minors. And outlawing comprehensive sexual education.
Fight against SA protection in the workplace and push more children to work to live? Anything is better than the Great Replacement right? /s
But honestly thinking about what terrible combination of policies.
Conservatives are thinking of the children. How is that unclear?
A few Republicans also rape and traffic minors just to show how dedicated they are to countering the declining birth rate!
Pizzagate was projection.
A few?
Only a few do both!
They misspoke. A few don’t.
Also, we need to be clear, rape is such a harsh word, it’s not fair to ruin someone’s whole career over a little misunderstanding like consent…
It’s such a steep [word] for 20 minutes of action.
Uh, yeah, about that. Republicans need to stop thinking so much about children, mmkay?
Okay, so on an actual serious note – Historically, this has actually been the lever that’s been pulled by government in order to control population growth.
The problem is that we’ve grown so much as a society that we now realize that bodily-autonomy is a human right.
There are ways they can promote population growth, if that is something we really want. Better and free school lunches would be a start. Childcare. Pre-K education. Free college. Health-care. And generally a more wealthy middle class.
The biggest reason people are having fewer kids is money.
This 100%. We and many of our peers with a kid are one and done in the current system. But if we could afford college educations for multiple kids, get adequate parental leave, access to early childcare that doesn’t cost an entire paycheck? That would change the decision quite a bit.
But also I’m happy to have fewer kids and let more immigrant and/or refugee families with young kids move here too. Solves the labor shortage and provides a much needed influx of fresh ideas and culture, not to mention getting some folks out of dangerous situations. Somehow all of the people who want to “save the children” are extremely silent on that front when it’s children moving to another country for a better life.
Not to call out OP, but does anyone have this information in anything other than .png format? There’s no timestamps, hyperlinks, or citations anywhere here. I’d love to send this to other people, but I’m not about to copy-pasta something that could be old or inaccurate.
Not the exact image posted, but this appears to be the source
Fantastic. Thank you!
Here is the paywalled Economist article and an archive that does a poor job of capturing the image.
Poland has super strict abortion bans in 2021. Wait until 2035 to see that place turn into a shithole
What is the reasoning behind the 14 year wait, is it tied to anything in particular? Or is it just that 13 year olds know how to make fun of the thing you are sensitive about
abortion gets banned. <-----You stopped thinking here
children are born in unloving homes
homes have with limited opportunities to succeed
children grow up as degenerates
commit crimes to get money and feed themselves/support bad habits
create more children that cycle the same behavior
Do you get surprised when six sided dice don’t show a 0 or a 7?
Or do you eat raw chicken because you don’t plan ahead to cook it?
let kids be kids. when you force kids to be parents, you are stealing their childhood. all you have to do is explain “sex” in bits and pieces, when it’s appropriate, and eventually they’re ready for the anatomy explanations and maybe you can help soften the trauma of puberty.
Tbf. Norway has a fertility rate of 1,4 I think. And that is in a country with (compared to many other places) quite generous benefits like a year paid maternity/paternity leave. Relative cheap and abundant kindergartens and a less horrible work situation. Think everyone are feeling the zeitgeist
People want stability before they have kids. Generous government benefits matter little if you’re living in a cardboard box. No one wants to raise a child in a cardboard box. Look up the cost of housing in the Nordic countries. They aren’t the socialist paradise you’re making them out to be.
It’s more nuanced than that. Wages are comparable high, and there are some tax regulations that makes owning less expensive. Renting is still not the norm in Norway. Second+++ apartments/houses are severely taxed in a recent new regulation (incidentally making renting more expensive as they were sold off)
Outside some “metropolitan” areas like Oslo you can find lex expensive homes. But you are correct that prices have started to be our of reach of many, and stability is key for starting a family.
And Norway is by no means a paradise, but it seems more agreeable than the US.
The median household income in Norway is 590,000 NOK. The median total housing expense is about 158,000 NOK. Thus the median Norwegian household is spending about 27% of their income on housing. This is pretty comparable to the US, where the median figure is 26%.
This is the median across the whole population, and of course, for younger people that amount should be higher. Really it seems that the US and Norway are about the same when it comes to housing affordability.
It gets worse however if you look at actual home prices and not just monthly payments. The average home price in Norway is about 5,000,000 NOK.. That means the average home costs about 8.5x the average income. In the US, the median home price is about $430,000., while the median household income is about $77.5k. The average home in the US thus costs about 5.5x the average income.
Homes in the US are cheaper than in Norway, while US incomes are higher. The median household income in Norway is the equivalent of $54,000. Also, the median home in the US is larger than that of Norway.
This is somewhat ameliorated by the fact that US consumers have to pay more out of pocket for healthcare, childcare, and commuting costs than their Norwegian equivalents do. But really, it shows that even after the subsidies, Norway is no more affordable for new parents than the US is. If anything, it’s probably more affordable in the US. Yes, you can always move to a rural area in Norway to get cheaper housing, but you can do the same in the US. People live in those bigger, more expensive, cities because they provide better job opportunities and better salaries.
My real point is that we can’t just point to the more generous welfare state of the Nordic countries as an example for how birthrates can’t be solved with financial incentives. A lot of people like to point to countries with generous welfare states like Norway and say, “look, even countries like Norway, who heavily subsidize healthcare, childcare, and have generous parental leave still have low birth rates!” Typically people who make these arguments want to argue for restricting women’s reproductive autonomy.
But it really does come down to housing. And in both Norway and the US, the cost of homeownership is getting way beyond what people of childbearing age can afford. That is the fundamental problem. There’s something very deep and instinctive about the places we live in. Having a truly stable place to live, ideally a place you own and can easily afford, is the single greatest way to encourage people of childbearing years to have children. People want to provide a stable environment for children to grow up in. They don’t want to live in a place where their landlord could kick them out on a whim. They don’t want to be reliant on a government-subsidized apartment that could be taken away from them tomorrow if eligibility rules are changed. People want either very reliable and affordable rental space or ideally a home they own on their own and can’t be evicted from. That is the kind of stability people seek before they have children.
The world is on fire around us, even in places where it’s only smoldering people don’t want to consign their children to the flames.
deleted by creator
“Driven” suggest more than half *of total pregnancies, which is not true looking at the graph given above. It was solidly third in terms of totals, which is still unsettling, but not as pronounced as your comment suggests.
Who told you that drivers have to be 51%?
That’s not what a driver is. Driver is a general term, ten pregnancies are a driver of total birth rate, as they have impacted total fertility significantly.
Less than 20% of a total is “significant”?
Yes. For example, 60 million people in the US (less than 20% of our total population) is a significant amount of people.
The amount the percentage represents is irrelevant. A billion people could be involved, but if the total is 7 billion, it’s not going to be a significant part of the total trend.
Yes it is…
5% can be a driver if it’s having a decent impact on your results. This is kind of a stats 101 thing man. You might even look for those outliers in your results and find a way to specifically exclude them if you find that the information you’re getting is being skewed. Do that too hard and it’s called P-hacking.
“We found that the bottom 5% of respondents were driving results negatively and so excluded the top and bottom 5%.”
Think about it as a literal driver. It’s a driver. It’s not the driver and also half the passengers. You can drive a motorcycle, you can drive a bus, and how much of the occupancy you are of those two things can change dramatically but you’re still a driver.
Obviously even 1 extreme outlier can skew things, but that’s not the case here.
In the terms of your analogy, this is about 3 people out of 20 pedaling a (weirdly long) bike and steered by all of them (somehow). Would you say that group of 3 are driving? Or would you concede it’s the two groups of 6 that are mostly driving the bike?
When it comes to teen pregnancies, 1 is 1 too many. ~20% is significant.
Yeah, that’s not what I said.
The reason why people aren’t having kids anymore isn’t because of abortion, its because: wages are decreasing (accounting for inflation), the cost of living is skyrocketing (yes even accounting for inflation), the cost of owning a home is now far too much for young people, people are working longer and more stressful hours in worse jobs for worse bosses, public areas have been destroyed leading to less in person interaction, online dating is toxic, the internet has given people heightened expectations, an unresolved mental health crisis, and people are finally becoming responsible enough to understand that you shouldn’t have kids you cant afford.
online dating is toxic
I’ve read some good evidence is that this is because women, especially zoomer and millennial women, are considerably more liberal than the men in their peer group. Historically, women have always been more liberal than men, but the difference between them has gotten extreme in the last 10 years. Being a Trump supporter is a deal-breaker for many single women.
Great news - the fewer Trumpers who reproduce, the better.
Online dating is incredibly toxic for gay men, too, so this isn’t something that can be completely explained by a shift in women’s ideology.
I will take your word for it. I am not involved in any online dating, but am also not gay.
That’s completely reasonable, why would a women date a man who thinks that she doesn’t own her own body (not all but a significant amount of Trump supporters believe that). In addition women are more liberal because primarily their rights have and are being threatened by Trump, furthermore women are more likely to be sympathetic to other minorities who may loose their rights as well. On top of that young conservative men are very often completely delusional in terms of dating expectations. Many of them demand an extremely young person (18-20), demand they be stay at home, demand many children, while not having a job capable of upholding such a lifestyle because they cannot accept that the world we live in is not the same one our grandparents lived in. In addition young conservatives (especially young Trump supporters) tend to have completely unreasonable demands and expectations due to them being terminally online and a very poor understanding of women.
It’s even worse than that. They want women to work full time, keep all the housework done, assume all the work with the child after work, while cooking dinner, washing up, stay looking fantastic, never complain and oh, mow the lawn while I’m playing golf/bball/football on Saturday, and don’t forget Suzie has ballet on Wednesday, Bobby has detention on Friday, and football practice on Saturday.
Not so sure about that. Isn’t Vance advocating for women to strive to be stay at home moms. So you can cut the full time job from that list. His comments about staying in the kitchen would also rule out the lawn and driving anywhere. I think he just wants women to stay home and be there for when their husband wants to see them, and only leave the house when he wants to bring her somewhere.
Probably. I just meant that’s the mindset of certain men in our area. Certain meaning if they want the trad wife but realize a single income isn’t enough. Or whatever else is convenient, I guess. I’m just going by those I’ve known in a concentrated region, not all men are like that and I’m so glad!
I dont get men tbh, or Trump supporters. Im too Transfem to understand them :3
I don’t understand women or Trump supporters so we have something in common.
Losing my job and seeing there’s about 100 times more people applying for IT jobs than there are IT jobs made me go from “maybe” to “nah” in the procreation question. Too many people already procreated too many times before me.
wages are decreasing (accounting for inflation), the cost of living is skyrocketing (yes even accounting for inflation), the cost of owning a home is now far too much for young people
Because the first thing people do when they get horny is immediately check their bank account balance 🙄
No but if you cant afford kids im guessing you’re more likey to use protection and/or other means to prevent pregnancy
Hard to go out on a date and impress someone if you can only afford staying at home with beans & rice.
You just listed 6 reasons why people are losing their minds then casually throw out “being responsible enough to not have kids they can’t afford”
Which is if? Everyone’s losing their goddamn minds of people have their shit together? Which is it damn it!!
/S
I forgot that only one thing can be true at once, its actually none of the reasons listed. The true reason is that the 5g radio waves connect with the vaccine autism to produce gay frog chemicals (that are spread by chemtrails in planes piloted by lizard people) so that everyone becomes trans.
/s /j
This makes way more sense
Preganté
I like that: it sounds Spanish.
It’s a reference to a meme video of someone reading misspelled Yahoo answer users asking pregnancy questions. It’s quite entertaining.
YouTube Link to the video in question.
I thought it was a reference to the song. YouTube link
That song is actually a reference to the older video that I linked to. It shows the original creator, JT Sexkik as a credit in the beginning.
HOW IS BABBY FORMED.
Thanks, this thread made me wanna revisit it
Do not quote the old magic to me. I was there when it was written.
It’s almost Spanish for “I asked” (pregunté).
Although it’s common for English speakers to mix up the word for ‘embarrassed’ (avergonzado) with ‘pregnant’ (embarazada). Which makes trying to tell someone “I’m embarrassed” even more hilarious!
Dangerops pregonant sex
Pregananant???
starch masks
Will it hurt baby top of his head?
I think the 20-24 line is hinting at a bad economy.
You just can’t hear that hint over the hint of the constant torment of the growing lower class
For real. Middle class was a low but comfortable bar back in 1987 when I was born. My parents went above and beyond having two incomes, one of them being a small business. I do essentially the same thing as my mom small business wise, and my wife makes arguably more than my old man dad, but the thought of doubling our starter home (or even moving out of it) just hasn’t crossed my mind.
And we also had kids about three years later on average than my folks did (though compared to my wife’s folks, about five years earlier).
The '90s were fucking awesome (except for the acid rain, shit had me spooked in first grade when they played the laser disc about it).
35-39 maybe just barely made the cut before the start of the collapse. But generally i expect all of them to trend down in the long run
Huh, weird, access to sexual education, contraception, and medical termination should the above fail, allows women to wait until they are more financially settled and independent. And as a result, a lot of whoopsie-babies are never born, lowering the overall birth rate.
That’s what I get from this diagram, at least. Birthrate among women under college-age is down, birthrate above college-age is up.
This is a good thing. The older moms, not the declining rate. The declining rate is worrying because our society relies on younger generations to prop up and care for the older ones.
Now let’s keep doing what we are doing, and then find ways to make people who want to have kids less nervous about the massive financial, career, and time commitments of them. The costs of food, childcare, education, housing. and healthcare (in the US) is absurd.
Each of my kids deliveries alone “cost” more than the used minivan we cart them around in. I put cost in quotes, because that’s what the insurance “paid”.
But of course, my insurance premiums each year also cost more than that minivan, too. At least they are pre-tax.
I got a kid in second grade and he will probably be in college by the time I’m done paying for my wife’s state college loans.
I, fortunately, got into a very well paying career after dropping out a semester into college, and I happen to have a natural aptitude for it. I recognize I lucked my way into my station, I’d be foolish to forget it. But honestly I have no idea how we’d do it if I didn’t. We make 4x the median household income for my area and every time we manage to save a little bit, something always comes around to clear out 90% of it. It’s incredibly demoralizing.
I know the childfree folks (and most Republicans) hate the idea of their taxes paying for medicaid, or college, or even public school (or even free lunches there!). But the fact is that an educated and healthy generation below us is usually the most important things for society to invest in. Now we also have to worry about keeping the planet habitable for them.
It was never about stopping abortion. It’s about keeping people in poverty and creating a cycle of uneducated voters that either don’t vote or vote Republican because they don’t know better
well that is because shareholders are wetting their pants realizing that with low birth rates they are losing both slaves and customers. Well, jokes on them, it is because of the shitty world they spearheaded (and that we followed)
EVERYBODY is mad!!!
I have a modest proposal.
Let’s all just skip a generation and no one have kids this time. We can easily start having kids again later with a nice clean slate.
Good idea, right?
Good call! Next gen can have children for our pensions!
Of course, if you outlaw kids, only outlaws will have kids.
