• Jackthelad@lemmy.world
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    23 days ago

    She also said: “And everyone is, we are both in fear, but also in fear of what, how Israel will retaliate and how we’ve seen it retaliate overnight, and the missiles that it’s launched and the attacks, but also we are full of pride. We are really, really full of joy of what happened.”

    Sorry what? Full of joy of what happening? The October 7th attacks?

    Why would that bring you joy?

    • Grimy@lemmy.world
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      23 days ago

      Abu Qamar, who led the Friends of Palestine society at the University of Manchester, said she was misinterpreted and that she was seeking to support Palestinian resistance to occupation and does not condone the use of violence against civilians, nor has she expressed support for Hamas.

      The tribunal said the Home Office decision was a “disproportionate interference with her protected right to free speech” under the European convention on human rights. It found that her statements could not be taken as support for Hamas or the Hamas-led attacks on 7 October.

      The judgment also said Abu Qamar was “not an extremist”, and said her references to Israel as an “apartheid” state were consistent with views expressed by human rights organisations. It added that her language of “actively resisting” and “broke free” would be recognised by informed observers as relating to lawful acts of Palestinian resistance.

      Why are you a staunch defender of a genocidal war mongering state. Isreal is a rabid dog, a pit bull ragdolling children.

      • blackn1ght@feddit.uk
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        23 days ago

        said she was misinterpreted and that she was seeking to support Palestinian resistance to occupation and does not condone the use of violence against civilians

        “we are full of pride. We are really, really full of joy of what happened.”

        I’m not really sure what she meant then if she’s being mis-interpretted. What happened was violence against civilians and they’re apparently full of pride and joy over it?

      • Jackthelad@lemmy.world
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        23 days ago

        war mongering state.

        Lol. Remind me what the trigger was for this current conflict?

        Also, the reference to Israel being an “apartheid state” is the most ludicrous statement and anyone who expressed it can be safely ignored.

        • ZombiFrancis@sh.itjust.works
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          23 days ago

          Also, the reference to Israel being an “apartheid state” is the most ludicrous statement and anyone who expressed it can be safely ignored.

          Well I’d love to hear the argument that tries to back this statement up.

          • Jackthelad@lemmy.world
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            23 days ago

            I’m still waiting for evidence of this supposed “apartheid” that people keep going on about.

            Before October 7th, Palestinians would regularly be welcomed across the border to live and work in Israel if they so wished. Just that simple fact blows the “apartheid” or “prison state” arguments out.

            Like genocide, oppression is another thing Israel aren’t very good at.

            • ZombiFrancis@sh.itjust.works
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              23 days ago

              I’m still waiting for evidence of this supposed “apartheid” that people keep going on about.

              It has been evidenced and been in discourse widely and long enough to have its own wikipedia entry. Human rights organizations like Amnesty International have definitely made the case. What evidence are you waiting for?

            • Grimy@lemmy.world
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              23 days ago

              welcomed across the border

              In a non-apartheid state, you wouldn’t have to ask and there wouldn’t be a border based on your religion. They literally control their movement between zones, and getting permits takes months. It’s text book apartheid.

              Just look up the marriage laws in Israel.

              *Edit because I was being rude.

              • Jackthelad@lemmy.world
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                23 days ago

                In a non-apartheid state, you wouldn’t have to ask and there wouldn’t be a border based on your religion. They literally control their movement between zones, and getting permits takes months. It’s text book apartheid.

                Have you ever tried living and working in another country before? Because this is literally what you have to do everywhere.

                • triplenadir@lemmygrad.ml
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                  22 days ago

                  So when the National Party government in South Africa imposed restrictions on travel between made-up areas that basically nobody else in the world recognized as separate countries, that was also not apartheid?

              • GarlicToast
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                23 days ago

                The border isn’t based on religion. Gaza strip is not part of Israel.

                The reason it’s 99% Muslims is because they murdered everyone else.

                If you want to cross between countries you have to go through a border check. Like I can’t just go visit the USA without getting visa first.

                • Grimy@lemmy.world
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                  23 days ago

                  Although I think Palestine should be an independant country, if it was not part of the apartheid state of israel, they would have full control over their own borders.

                  It is not the same as a border check specifically since it’s part of the same country, hence why Israel is an apartheid state.

                  You both are really close to understanding the problem here, you just have to dig a bit deeper.

                  https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_freedom_of_movement#:~:text=Israel enforces restrictions on the,usage of roads by Palestinians.

                  Read this whole article, and actually read it for real, don’t skim it and pretend. It’s insane to compare it to any kind of international border because it simply isn’t.

                  • GarlicToast
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                    23 days ago

                    Gaza strip was part of Egypt till the six days war. Egypt refused to take it back. Israel refused to pass law expending their border to include Gaza strip and in 2005 made it illegal for their citizens be stay there.

                    What in this chain of events makes you think they are the same country?

                • Keeponstalin@lemmy.world
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                  22 days ago

                  Gaza has never stopped being under Israeli occupation since 1967. Hamas only exists because of the Apartheid Occupation of Israel and the daily violence that has subjected Palestinians to for generations. Israel has always been the obstacle for peace, and has been the one preventing a ceasefire.

                  It is not ‘99% Muslim because they murdered everyone else’ that’s an insane racist lie. Palestine has historically been a safe haven for people of every religion seeking asylum from persecution.

                  De-development via the Gaza Occupation

                  Between July 1971 and February 1972, Sharon enjoyed considerable success. During this time, the entire Strip (apart from the Rafah area) was sealed off by a ring of security fences 53 miles in length, with few entrypoints. Today, their effects live on: there are only three points of entry to Gaza—Erez, Nahal Oz, and Rafah.

                  Perhaps the most dramatic and painful aspect of Sharon’s campaign was the widening of roads in the refugee camps to facilitate military access. Israel built nearly 200 miles of security roads and destroyed thousands of refugee dwellings as part of the widening process.’ In August 1971, for example, the Israeli army destroyed 7,729 rooms (approximately 2,000 houses) in three vola- tile camps, displacing 15,855 refugees: 7,217 from Jabalya, 4,836 from Shati, and 3,802 from Rafah.

                  • Page 105

                  Through 1993 Israel imposed a one-way system of tariffs and duties on the importation of goods through its borders; leaving Israel for Gaza, however, no tariffs or other regulations applied. Thus, for Israeli exports to Gaza, the Strip was treated as part of Israel; but for Gazan exports to Israel, the Strip was treated as a foreign entity subject to various “non-tariff barriers.” This placed Israel at a distinct advantage for trading and limited Gaza’s access to Israeli and foreign markets. Gazans had no recourse against such policies, being totally unable to protect themselves with tariffs or exchange rate controls. Thus, they had to pay more for highly protected Israeli products than they would if they had some control over their own economy. Such policies deprived the occupied territories of significant customs revenue, estimated at $118-$176 million in 1986.

                  • page 240

                  In a report released in May 2015, the World Bank revealed that as a result of Israel’s blockade and OPE, Gaza’s manufacturing sector shrank by as much as 60% over eight years while real per capita income is 31 percent lower than it was 20 years ago. The report also stated that the blockade alone is responsible for a 50% decrease in Gaza’s GDP since 2007. Furthermore, OPE (combined with the tunnel closure) exacerbated an already grave situation by reducing Gaza’s economy by an additional $460 million.

                  • Page 402

                  • The Gaza Strip: The Political Economy of De-Development - Third Edition by Sara M. Roy

                  Blockade, including Aid

                  Hamas began twenty years into the occupation during the first Intifada, with the goal of ending the occupation. Collective punishment has been a deliberate Israeli tactic for decades with the Dahiya doctrine. Violence such as suicide bombings and rockets escalated in response to Israeli enforcement of the occupation and apartheid.

                  After the ‘disengagement’ in 2007, this turned into a full blockade; where Israel has had control over the airspace, borders, and sea. Under the guise of ‘dual-use’ Israel has restricted food, allocating a minimum supply leading to over half of Gaza being food insecure; construction materials, medical supplies, and other basic necessities have also been restricted.

                  The blockade and Israel’s repeated military offensives have had a heavy toll on Gaza’s essential infrastructure and further debilitated its health system and economy, leaving the area in a state of perpetual humanitarian crisis. Indeed, Israel’s collective punishment of Gaza’s civilian population, the majority of whom are children, has created conditions inimical to human life due to shortages of housing, potable water and electricity, and lack of access to essential medicines and medical care, food, educational equipment and building materials.

                  Peace Process and Solution

                  Both Hamas and Fatah have agreed to a Two-State solution based on the 1967 borders for decades. Oslo and Camp David were used by Israel to continue settlements in the West Bank and maintain an Apartheid, while preventing any actual Two-State solution

                  How Avi Shlaim moved from two-state solution to one-state solution

                  ‘One state is a game changer’: A conversation with Ilan Pappe

                  One State Solution, Foreign Affairs

                  Hamas proposed a full prisoner swap as early as Oct 8th, and agreed to the US proposed UN Permanent Ceasefire Resolution. Additionally, Hamas has already agreed to no longer govern the Gaza Strip, as long as Palestinians receive liberation and a unified government can take place.

                  • GarlicToast
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                    22 days ago

                    Let break it down.

                    Gaza has never stopped being under Israeli occupation since 1967

                    False, Israel left Gaza in 2005, the blockade started after Hamas fired rockets into Israel.

                    Hamas only exists because of the Apartheid Occupation of Israel and the daily violence that has subjected Palestinians to for generations.

                    False, Hamas is a modern, local, branch of the Muslim Brotherhood. A movement that was already active in the area in 1929 (1929 Palestine riots).

                    Israel has always been the obstacle for peace, and has been the one preventing a ceasefire.

                    This is why Israel has peace with Jordan and Egypt. Yes. Also, remind me, who broke the ceasefire on 2006? On 2023? Not Israel.

                    It is not ‘99% Muslim because they murdered everyone else’ that’s an insane racist lie. Palestine has historically been a safe haven for people of every religion seeking asylum from persecution.

                    Like the Jewish people that lived in Gaza in 1929? Like the Jewish people of Zfat in (1834 looting of Safed as an example, there are more)? The Christian population in most, if not all, Muslim controlled territories has declined due to persecution by Muslims.

        • Grimy@lemmy.world
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          23 days ago

          You mean the event which Israel knew about and let happen, coming from a group they actively fund which was born out of their own constant oppression?

          In any case, genocide is never a valid response. And the disproportionate amount of violence, bombing and innocent deaths speak loud as to just how rapid the dog is. Isreal also has a long history of attacking it’s neighbors in times of piece.

          Apartheid refers to the implementation and maintenance of a system of legalized racial segregation in which one racial group is deprived of political and civil rights. (From Cornell law)

          How does this not apply?

        • dontgooglefinderscult@lemmings.world
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          23 days ago

          Remind me what the trigger was for this current conflict?

          Zionist violence in the 1880s primarily harassing Jews that lived in the regions n continuously for the last 4k years.

          To your second point, Israel is an apartheid state. There’s no way around that title.

        • Keeponstalin@lemmy.world
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          22 days ago

          This is a genocide on an incarcerated population, within an Apartheid State, founded on Ethnic Cleansing, which is central to Zionism. Israel has no right to do any of those things. The only real solution is a regime change to a One-State Solution with equal rights for all Israelis and Palestinians. See the multitudes of evidence Sundial presented

    • GarlicToast
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      23 days ago

      Why comments critical of people being happy at mass murder are down voted here?

        • GarlicToast
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          23 days ago

          It was also cool in Iran, that how they got stuck with the current regiment. Stupid kids.

          • geneva_convenience@lemmy.ml
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            22 days ago

            Supporting Palestinian armed resistance is not cool in the West Bank… where Israel is currently bulldozing UNRWA offices.

            • GarlicToast
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              22 days ago

              I would have zero problem with West Bank Palestinians striking back at the local Jewish settlers. I will feel no joy from that, but the local settlers earned that. I would much prefer if the world banking system will block them and they will be all charged with war crimes.

              UNRWA should be dismantled completely. They double dipped as Hamas members, made up funny definition for refugees, promoted conflict and lead to no long term solution. UNHCR may be more successful, after all, they are good enough for all other refugees.

              • geneva_convenience@lemmy.ml
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                22 days ago

                Yes the UNRWA armed Palestinian resistance faction.

                Thank you for explaining why it is pointless for Palestinians not to engage in armed resistance. Israeli will say they did so anyway.

                • Jackthelad@lemmy.world
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                  22 days ago

                  Nine of them were involved in the October 7th attacks, and there’s proof that more are still Hamas fighters, but I know that people aren’t interested in facts because they just want to bash Israel at every opportunity.