I find most people who complain about echo chambers are just mad that they aren’t allowed to barge in everyone’s door and start shouting their bigoted opinions like it’s some moral imperative we all give equal time to all opinions/ideologies.
Are positive, liberal LGBT communities echo chambers? Are they not allowed a collective space to hang out without having to explain themselves all the time?
It depends. Defederation for good reasons is good, defederation for bad or false reasons is generally bad.
As an example, having a strict and democratic defederation/federation policy has contributed to Hexbear having the most active trans community on Lemmy, and it’s a good thing that there’s an actively protected trans space free from bigotry.
At the same time, defederating from instances for political reasons under the guise of other reasons is generally a bad thing.
I mean, “bad” in this case is completely subjective. There are large trans communities on other instances (blahaj being the most obvious one) and they have their reasons for defederating from Hexbear.
Hexbear defederated from blahaj, not the other way around. Either way, Hexbear remains the most active trans community on Lemmy.
I understand why anticommunist instances like Lemmy.world defederate from Hexbear, I just don’t think it will help Lemmy.world in the long run, as Lemmy itself by nature is going to attract Communists due to its structure.
I dunno, I feel like anyone drawn to Lemmy for that reason will find lemmy.ml nearly as easily. If world suffers because of bad practices, well, that’s the way it goes. At least the fediverse lives on.
They will, yes, but not always. Apps like Voyager assume .world as the default, causing friction when leftists join and run into silencing of their views.
Lemmy.ml is interesting, it’s a reference to Marxism-Leninism, but it doesn’t require users to be Communists like Lemmygrad, or leftists in general like Hexbear, hence the active population on Hexbear.
Be an awfully large coincidence that the devs and admins of Lemmy.ml are Marxist-Leninists then, though I don’t doubt the cheap domain played a part too.
TechnicallyLemmy.ml is focused on FOSS and Privacy, but requiring users to copy and paste exerpts from Principles of Communism (at one point) means it at least leans Communist.
Honestly .world should have just blocked the most common shiposting Hexbear comms like chapotraphouse and dunk_tank as these are what most users found annoying. And I believe ther are more leftists on .world than one might think. There’s a great games comm on Hexbear too, and downvote away on the leftist game posts - Hexbear doesn’t have downvotes anyway!
The problem is that Lemmy.world doesn’t want Communists using their communities, not that their users shouldn’t be exposed to Communist posts, because they wanted homogenous liberalism.
There are some leftists on .world, but they usually leave in favor of leftist instances from what I have personally seen.
Absolutely agree about Hexbear’s games comm, easily the best gaming comm on Lemmy.
Ada is okay with others chasing off people from the instance. Hard to say it’s a pro trans one after seeing multiple witch hunts done against a particular comm by one user and Ada just supporting the witch hunt
Well that’s definitely your own experience on federated platforms, but I wasn’t speaking to that circumstance. I made a mastodon account and criticized our government’s massive funding of Israel in spite of our lack of critical infrastructure and healthcare and got spammed with “Israel has a right to defend itself, and you 're a trumper if you think otherwise” type comments by people that post one response and then immediately block you. Which is laughable and couldn’t be further from the truth. That is the perpetual echo chamber I was referring to from my personal experience.
I’m not sure you understand a what a strawman is. This doesn’t relate to it.
No one is advocating for what the prior comment illustrated. It’s a caricature, a way people describe how others interact online while implying they themselves keep more diversity of opinion around them.
Most have varying degrees of interactions with people across the ideological spectrum in different spaces in their lives. The image that was drawn is so simplistic and doesn’t represent most people.
Just throwing up a screenshot of “echo chamber“ isn’t a meaningful response. If anything it’s patronizing and low effort. It says more about your grasp of this subject than it does about my argument.
This is where you implied it was an attack. By saying that I was drawing an image of people when literally all I did was an explain what an echo chamber was. I never passed judgement on you, or said anything about the diversity of opinions I partake in. You decided all by yourself to be upset about a simple explanation of what an echo chamber was. If you’re not in one, don’t worry about it lol
If you only ever interact with that one opinion, then yes
No! I didn’t even care about what an echo chamber is! I just wanted to pass judgement on people who use this phrase without accepting any new considerations for what it actually means.
I think you might be protecting your peace a lil too close to the sun
How did you take this as an attack? An echo chamber is the exaggerated idea of hearing only a single opinion, as curated to your own beliefs. It doesn’t matter what the belief is.
Obviously no one is 100% in an echo chamber, but it’s also obvious that everyone is guilty of confirmation bias; and tend to prefer seeing their own opinions online. I never said anything about my own feed or accused you of being in an echo chamber. I just explained what one was because you implied that it’s impossible to be in a liberal echo chamber
They didn’t give a meaningful response to my pretty clearly rhetorical question… Are you sure you’re OK? Are you just gonna be a patronizing ass? Can you please stop wasting my time playing dumb?
When did I say anything about attacking? Still waiting for you to show me.
It’s ironically more about certain instances creating echo chambers through constant censorship.
Imagine an instance full of Nazi’s that only ever let’s Nazi posts stick. Is this if any value, or would defederating improve the quality of your experience?
“I must preserve my echo chamber!”
I find most people who complain about echo chambers are just mad that they aren’t allowed to barge in everyone’s door and start shouting their bigoted opinions like it’s some moral imperative we all give equal time to all opinions/ideologies.
Are positive, liberal LGBT communities echo chambers? Are they not allowed a collective space to hang out without having to explain themselves all the time?
It depends. Defederation for good reasons is good, defederation for bad or false reasons is generally bad.
As an example, having a strict and democratic defederation/federation policy has contributed to Hexbear having the most active trans community on Lemmy, and it’s a good thing that there’s an actively protected trans space free from bigotry.
At the same time, defederating from instances for political reasons under the guise of other reasons is generally a bad thing.
It’s largely context dependent.
Yes. Doing something bad for a bad reason is bad, doing a good thing for a good reason is good.
After that, things get more complicated.
I mean, “bad” in this case is completely subjective. There are large trans communities on other instances (blahaj being the most obvious one) and they have their reasons for defederating from Hexbear.
Hexbear defederated from blahaj, not the other way around. Either way, Hexbear remains the most active trans community on Lemmy.
I understand why anticommunist instances like Lemmy.world defederate from Hexbear, I just don’t think it will help Lemmy.world in the long run, as Lemmy itself by nature is going to attract Communists due to its structure.
I dunno, I feel like anyone drawn to Lemmy for that reason will find lemmy.ml nearly as easily. If world suffers because of bad practices, well, that’s the way it goes. At least the fediverse lives on.
They will, yes, but not always. Apps like Voyager assume .world as the default, causing friction when leftists join and run into silencing of their views.
Lemmy.ml is interesting, it’s a reference to Marxism-Leninism, but it doesn’t require users to be Communists like Lemmygrad, or leftists in general like Hexbear, hence the active population on Hexbear.
Is it really? Others have said it isn’t, that it’s just because .ml domains were free.
Be an awfully large coincidence that the devs and admins of Lemmy.ml are Marxist-Leninists then, though I don’t doubt the cheap domain played a part too.
Technically Lemmy.ml is focused on FOSS and Privacy, but requiring users to copy and paste exerpts from Principles of Communism (at one point) means it at least leans Communist.
Honestly .world should have just blocked the most common shiposting Hexbear comms like chapotraphouse and dunk_tank as these are what most users found annoying. And I believe ther are more leftists on .world than one might think. There’s a great games comm on Hexbear too, and downvote away on the leftist game posts - Hexbear doesn’t have downvotes anyway!
The problem is that Lemmy.world doesn’t want Communists using their communities, not that their users shouldn’t be exposed to Communist posts, because they wanted homogenous liberalism.
There are some leftists on .world, but they usually leave in favor of leftist instances from what I have personally seen.
Absolutely agree about Hexbear’s games comm, easily the best gaming comm on Lemmy.
Fair, that’s what I did.
Ada is okay with others chasing off people from the instance. Hard to say it’s a pro trans one after seeing multiple witch hunts done against a particular comm by one user and Ada just supporting the witch hunt
Well that’s definitely your own experience on federated platforms, but I wasn’t speaking to that circumstance. I made a mastodon account and criticized our government’s massive funding of Israel in spite of our lack of critical infrastructure and healthcare and got spammed with “Israel has a right to defend itself, and you 're a trumper if you think otherwise” type comments by people that post one response and then immediately block you. Which is laughable and couldn’t be further from the truth. That is the perpetual echo chamber I was referring to from my personal experience.
Ok
Could be, especially if there aren’t a multitude of sentiments there. That doesn’t mean all sentiments must be present of course.
I don’t think anyone said they aren’t allowed to have such a space.
You’re in an echo chamber if you curate your home feed to only show one opinion and then never change it; it doesn’t matter what the opinion is
That’s a flagrant strawman
How?
I’m not sure you understand a what a strawman is. This doesn’t relate to it.
No one is advocating for what the prior comment illustrated. It’s a caricature, a way people describe how others interact online while implying they themselves keep more diversity of opinion around them.
Most have varying degrees of interactions with people across the ideological spectrum in different spaces in their lives. The image that was drawn is so simplistic and doesn’t represent most people.
Just throwing up a screenshot of “echo chamber“ isn’t a meaningful response. If anything it’s patronizing and low effort. It says more about your grasp of this subject than it does about my argument.
This is where you implied it was an attack. By saying that I was drawing an image of people when literally all I did was an explain what an echo chamber was. I never passed judgement on you, or said anything about the diversity of opinions I partake in. You decided all by yourself to be upset about a simple explanation of what an echo chamber was. If you’re not in one, don’t worry about it lol
You lectured me on what echo chambers are for no reason then. Is that how I should be interpreting this?
Did I ask for a definition? Did anyone?
I think you might be protecting your peace a lil too close to the sun
Wow, dude. Get back to your echo chamber. You’re brittle and shrill outside of it.
How did you take this as an attack? An echo chamber is the exaggerated idea of hearing only a single opinion, as curated to your own beliefs. It doesn’t matter what the belief is.
Obviously no one is 100% in an echo chamber, but it’s also obvious that everyone is guilty of confirmation bias; and tend to prefer seeing their own opinions online. I never said anything about my own feed or accused you of being in an echo chamber. I just explained what one was because you implied that it’s impossible to be in a liberal echo chamber
I didn’t say it was an attack. I said it was a strawman. Just stop responding to things I didn’t say/putting words in my mouth.
Steve are you alright? You’re so defensive against someone who’s just explaining a concept you literally asked about
They didn’t give a meaningful response to my pretty clearly rhetorical question… Are you sure you’re OK? Are you just gonna be a patronizing ass? Can you please stop wasting my time playing dumb?
When did I say anything about attacking? Still waiting for you to show me.
HOW DARE YOU HAVE A MODERATELY DISSENTING VOICE, YOU LITERAL NAZI?!?!
I’ll take this comment more seriously when literal nazis stop demanding we listen to them.
Oh literal Nazis can get fucked. My point is that you can disagree on topics and that health discourse is good
Sounds like you’re tilting at windmills in that previous comment tbh
I’d like to come to your house and take a shit in your bed.
Hope you get the help you need 🙏
Just bring TP, not Hope.
There’s moderation and there’s making it into an echo chamber. Seems like a difference many don’t understand.
seems like nitpicking to me.
I don’t know if you’re joking or proving my point
It’s ironically more about certain instances creating echo chambers through constant censorship.
Imagine an instance full of Nazi’s that only ever let’s Nazi posts stick. Is this if any value, or would defederating improve the quality of your experience?
You’re talking about Exploding Heads, which has been defederated by pretty much everybody.