I voted for Biden to stop fascism and now he’s a genocide collaborator! Would Trump be worse? Maybe - it’s unclear, because at least Democrats would oppose Trump. Trump saw the largest protest movement in American history, Trump inspires Democrats to actually ask for more, Trump will further isolate America (and Israel) geopolitically, it’s hard to predict.
I’m not voting for him, I’m actually voting Democrat down ticket, but if he wins it’s not the end of the world. It’s an opportunity.
In the meantime? Withholding my vote is literally the only way I can exert pressure on Biden. I have a moral obligation to oppose genocide. I won’t vote for it. If he’s smart he’ll reverse course on Israel to save his campaign and this will all be moot. Why is Biden helping Trump win?
You don’t need to exert pressure on Biden. You need to help push the entire system back to the left. When Democrats in general are in government, it allows more room for further left candidates. Just like how electing Republicans made room for the Tea Party and the MAGA crazies. If the window had been more toward the left, they’d have been outside the Republican party.
I’m voting Democrat down ticket. I’m just not voting for genocide Joe.
That’s the only way I can exert any pressure on him, and I don’t have to wait a year for that pressure to manifest. If enough Democrats had the courage to stand up to Biden he’d be forced to change his policies. Instead, you are all choosing to be complicit in genocide.
Not voting is a valid choice, one that says you’re okay with either candidate winning. And that is being complicit with genocide. If you’re not okay with that, vote.
If you don’t want to wait a year, you can call, write, protest, and donate to groups to do those things on your behalf. But to throw away your vote is incredibly short-sighted.
Yup. But in the choice of who to vote for president, there’s the establishment candidate, or the “dictator for a day” candidate. Or there’s not voting, which is saying “yes, either of those are okay”. One of those things has the chance of making progress, and it should be obvious.
They know they’re not going to lose on this issue, though, because anyone who seriously evaluates the election has come to the same conclusion that I already said: a Trump victory is the worst outcome. Again, you’ll have to put pressure on the party through other means, just one of which is electing more leftist downballot candidates.
They may actually lose on this issue. Democrats rely pretty heavily on younger voters and a lot of the really young voters, Zoomers, are making this a do or die issue, even though both of our only two parties with any chance of winning will support the genocide regardless.
They know they’re not going to lose on this issue, though, because anyone who seriously evaluates the election has come to the same conclusion that I already said: a Trump victory is the worst outcome.
Okay, so my vote is irrelevant, got it. I’ve asked elsewhere and I’ll ask it here: why are you crawling up my dick about it? If my presidential vote doesn’t matter because “they’re not going to lose on this issue” then I can comfortably just leave that spot blank.
Again, you’ll have to put pressure on the party through other means, just one of which is electing more leftist downballot candidates.
I don’t understand why people think the democrats losing to someone farther right would make them move left. Doesn’t it make more sense they’d move to the right since that’s what more voters wanted?
Bro you understand Biden isn’t president of Israel right? This tired ass take that he somehow sets policy there shows how immature and uninformed you are.
I really do wonder how old the person you’re commenting to is. It’s very easy to be idealistic when you’re young and lack experience. Eventually you learn that you’re basically the same as the Freedom Caucus of the left if you’re acting that way, refusing to compromise and make any positive changes whatsoever.
Old enough to have already gone through this exact song and dance routine before with Obama. “We just need to wait until the primaries to nominate a progressive, then we can finally move this Party to the left!” I saw how that turned out. The Party won’t allow it.
Yet even still, I voted for Biden to stop fascism.
And now he’s funding a genocide.
Idealism is voting blue no matter who and expecting them to stop taking advantage of you. Why should they? You are a loyal dog and will keep coming home no matter how hard they beat you.
I just want this one thing. My red line. I’ll let Biden break strikes and deport refugees and round people into prisons and expand oil drilling, I’ll let him do every fucking thing he promised he wouldn’t, and all he has to do is oppose genocide. It’s entirely within his power to do this.
This is the only leverage I have. I have a moral obligation to use it and so do you. By voting for genocide you are responsible for it.
Israel is the 51st state. This idea that Israel is a strong independent state that doesn’t need the empire is a joke, they’re wholly dependent on the US. When Reagan told Israel to back off of attacking the PLO in Lebanon, they did. Israel’s power comes from its untouchable status.
Okay, what? That’s doesn’t make it not a democracy. America is and was a Democracy and only white men land owners could vote for like a century. You don’t like its domestic policy so the entire field of political science is wrong, and it’s not a democracy? Wow you have such big brain.
Then say flawed democracy instead of trying to hold it up like some beacon of hope. It’s not. It’s a trash country run by trash people just like the United States.
Okay well in the entirety of the middle east it is the only country that governs by even a pretense of consent of the people. Every other state in the region is some form of authoritarian theocracy, not even close to democracy. Only the former has any hope of granting long term human rights.
I voted for Biden to stop fascism and now he’s a genocide collaborator! Would Trump be worse? Maybe - it’s unclear, because at least Democrats would oppose Trump. Trump saw the largest protest movement in American history, Trump inspires Democrats to actually ask for more, Trump will further isolate America (and Israel) geopolitically, it’s hard to predict.
I’m not voting for him, I’m actually voting Democrat down ticket, but if he wins it’s not the end of the world. It’s an opportunity.
In the meantime? Withholding my vote is literally the only way I can exert pressure on Biden. I have a moral obligation to oppose genocide. I won’t vote for it. If he’s smart he’ll reverse course on Israel to save his campaign and this will all be moot. Why is Biden helping Trump win?
You don’t need to exert pressure on Biden. You need to help push the entire system back to the left. When Democrats in general are in government, it allows more room for further left candidates. Just like how electing Republicans made room for the Tea Party and the MAGA crazies. If the window had been more toward the left, they’d have been outside the Republican party.
I’m voting Democrat down ticket. I’m just not voting for genocide Joe.
That’s the only way I can exert any pressure on him, and I don’t have to wait a year for that pressure to manifest. If enough Democrats had the courage to stand up to Biden he’d be forced to change his policies. Instead, you are all choosing to be complicit in genocide.
Not voting is a valid choice, one that says you’re okay with either candidate winning. And that is being complicit with genocide. If you’re not okay with that, vote.
If you don’t want to wait a year, you can call, write, protest, and donate to groups to do those things on your behalf. But to throw away your vote is incredibly short-sighted.
I’m voting for Democrats down ticket, hardly throwing it away. I’m just not voting for any pro-genocide candidates.
And if Biden is smart, he’ll see how much support he’s losing and change his policy towards Israel.
Biden is an empty suit. If the party tells him to change, he’ll change.
Alternatively, Trump wins and everything gets even shittier, and we lose even the possibility for things to get better.
I like how you found yourself being down voted the moment you acknowledged what a piss poor excuse for “Democracy” this is.
Yup. But in the choice of who to vote for president, there’s the establishment candidate, or the “dictator for a day” candidate. Or there’s not voting, which is saying “yes, either of those are okay”. One of those things has the chance of making progress, and it should be obvious.
What fucking progress my guy? Look around.
And the Party would tell him to change if the Party knew they’d lose the presidency.
Do you think the Party would rather Trump win than stop supporting Israel? I doubt that.
They know they’re not going to lose on this issue, though, because anyone who seriously evaluates the election has come to the same conclusion that I already said: a Trump victory is the worst outcome. Again, you’ll have to put pressure on the party through other means, just one of which is electing more leftist downballot candidates.
They may actually lose on this issue. Democrats rely pretty heavily on younger voters and a lot of the really young voters, Zoomers, are making this a do or die issue, even though both of our only two parties with any chance of winning will support the genocide regardless.
Okay, so my vote is irrelevant, got it. I’ve asked elsewhere and I’ll ask it here: why are you crawling up my dick about it? If my presidential vote doesn’t matter because “they’re not going to lose on this issue” then I can comfortably just leave that spot blank.
Which I’m doing.
I don’t understand why people think the democrats losing to someone farther right would make them move left. Doesn’t it make more sense they’d move to the right since that’s what more voters wanted?
So you admit Democrats are just fascist light? Sounds like the fight is over then. We lost.
The solution to our choices being a centrist and a literal fascist isn’t to push the Overton window even further right. Such thinking is beyond naive.
What centrist? All I see are two fascists, because genocide sure as fuck isn’t centrist.
You don’t have to be fascist to be genocidal. The two just tend to overlap.
Bro you understand Biden isn’t president of Israel right? This tired ass take that he somehow sets policy there shows how immature and uninformed you are.
I really do wonder how old the person you’re commenting to is. It’s very easy to be idealistic when you’re young and lack experience. Eventually you learn that you’re basically the same as the Freedom Caucus of the left if you’re acting that way, refusing to compromise and make any positive changes whatsoever.
Old enough to have already gone through this exact song and dance routine before with Obama. “We just need to wait until the primaries to nominate a progressive, then we can finally move this Party to the left!” I saw how that turned out. The Party won’t allow it.
Yet even still, I voted for Biden to stop fascism.
And now he’s funding a genocide.
Idealism is voting blue no matter who and expecting them to stop taking advantage of you. Why should they? You are a loyal dog and will keep coming home no matter how hard they beat you.
I just want this one thing. My red line. I’ll let Biden break strikes and deport refugees and round people into prisons and expand oil drilling, I’ll let him do every fucking thing he promised he wouldn’t, and all he has to do is oppose genocide. It’s entirely within his power to do this.
This is the only leverage I have. I have a moral obligation to use it and so do you. By voting for genocide you are responsible for it.
Israel is the 51st state. This idea that Israel is a strong independent state that doesn’t need the empire is a joke, they’re wholly dependent on the US. When Reagan told Israel to back off of attacking the PLO in Lebanon, they did. Israel’s power comes from its untouchable status.
And it gets that status because it’s the only democracy in the middleeast and surrounded by enemies.
“democracy”
Why are you putting in quotes? It’s uncontroversially defined as a “flawed democracy” by political science, same as the United States.
it’s not a democracy at all. it systematically disenfranchises the Palestinian people in its borders.
Okay, what? That’s doesn’t make it not a democracy. America is and was a Democracy and only white men land owners could vote for like a century. You don’t like its domestic policy so the entire field of political science is wrong, and it’s not a democracy? Wow you have such big brain.
america is a racist oligarchy, too.
a democracy lets the demos rule. systematically excluding the demos from participation disqualifies you as a democracy. qed.
Then say flawed democracy instead of trying to hold it up like some beacon of hope. It’s not. It’s a trash country run by trash people just like the United States.
Okay well in the entirety of the middle east it is the only country that governs by even a pretense of consent of the people. Every other state in the region is some form of authoritarian theocracy, not even close to democracy. Only the former has any hope of granting long term human rights.
none of those states are legitimate, including Israel.
ROFL!