“I don’t think it’s nice to federate with a company that has been cited in multiple independent reports of massacres/genocides,”
And I don’t think it’s nice to take the choice away from users. I can block threads all on my own – I don’t need a nanny who doesn’t even cite their sources.
Considering that their literal stated purpose is to create a curated list of ‘nice, well-run servers’, I don’t see how delisting someone is remotely outside of their wheelhouse. If a server is federated with meta, it’s not well-run. Easy peasy.
Nobody needs to be listed on Fedi Garden or has a right to be listed on Fedi Garden. They can still federate or defederate as they wish, just as Fedi Garden can choose to list them or not as they wish. Everybody gets to do what they want, as is the point.
I love when people conflate rights and ethics. I agree with you that no one has a right to be listed on Fedi Garden. And I still think it’s not nice to pressure admins into taking choice away from users.
It’s literally a list of well-run servers. Do you not see how you’re attempting to ‘take away choice’ from the proprietors of the list by telling them who they must list and what criteria they must use for their website?
You’re perfectly capable of doing what they’ve done. Go spend the time to curate a list, put up a simple little site, and make your own decisions. Nobody’s stopping you. That’s the point of federation and independence. You get to do what you want if you have the follow-through.
Admins likewise can do whatever they like. They can choose to federate with threads or to not.
Personally, I think it’s a little shady to run around shaming people who put their time and effort into projects and insist that they must lick Meta’s boots. Little bit suspect.
No, you see, when the server demands something I dislike that is removing choice. And when I demand something the server dislikes that is defending freedom.
I agree 100%. I don’t need someone else overriding my existing right to decide whether I want to block or not (where is that going to stop). Anyway, I connect and follow individuals, not their whole instance. I’m not going to see anything from Threads unless I choose to follow someone. And if any friend reboosts stuff I don’t like (from Threads or anywhere else) I block that “friend”.
It includes in its Blocked Instances list, has defederated with, 181 instances.
Now, you might well agree with some of those being blocked. Like, maybe they’re spammers or harassing people or God knows what. They might host speech that might be illegal in some jurisdictions, be classified as hate speech there. They might contain content that’s socially-unacceptable in some countries – one of my first experiences on the Threadiverse was being sent by a random kbin.social sidebar comment recommendation into a conversation that Ada, the lemmy.blahaj.zone instance admin, was having with some guy in the Middle East, whose country had apparently blocked that instance at the national firewall level due to it having LGBT content or something like that. There’s pornography on lemmynsfw.com. Consentual-nonconsentual and synthetic child pornography on burggit.moe. Piracy material on lemmy.dbzer0.com. Some instances won’t approve of that being accessible from their instances, and in those cases, the instance admin is already blocking things.
I chose my home instance – lemmy.today – specifically because it was an instance policy to try to avoid defederating with instances, and it presently has an empty blocklist. But as best I can tell, most instances have some level of content or user behavior or whatever on other instances that they consider unacceptable and will defederate over. Maybe not it’s not Threads, but they’re aiming to block something.
Good points. Yes, I do prefer to give an instance at least the benefit of the doubt. Difference tho really with Fediverse is you have to search and follow stuff to see it. It does not get inserted into your feed through ads or people playing the algorithms. So generally I’m only seeing what I follow. I suppose we do need to choose our instances wisely. Certainly, if an instance (not just a user on it) is really spamming or impacting on other instances, I suppose there can be grounds to block it. But we have not all been spammed yet by Threads. I don’t like Threads (cancelled all my accounts years ago) but I left a few good friends and family there that I would like to reconnect with, and follow them. I also like that my metadata stays on the Fediverse side, so I don’t need a Threads account or their app tracking me.
I just would not like to be denied the option to even reconnect with my family and friends. Same goes for WhatsApp interoperating on Signal protocol - I have many friends and colleagues I left behind on WhatsApp, and would like to reconnect again with them.
The rules for being listed on fedi.garden will require blocking instances cited in human rights reports on genocide.
And this is their announcement on this oddly specific rule.
I mean, the wording “cited in multiple reports of massacres or genocides” is strange enough. An organization can be “cited” for doing anything. Can I write up two BS reports so that we ban any instance I don’t like? Sounds like a teenager mimicking a TV politician speak, tbh.
Fediverse should be based on a mature protocol imo.
And I don’t think it’s nice to take the choice away from users. I can block threads all on my own – I don’t need a nanny who doesn’t even cite their sources.
Considering that their literal stated purpose is to create a curated list of ‘nice, well-run servers’, I don’t see how delisting someone is remotely outside of their wheelhouse. If a server is federated with meta, it’s not well-run. Easy peasy.
Nobody needs to be listed on Fedi Garden or has a right to be listed on Fedi Garden. They can still federate or defederate as they wish, just as Fedi Garden can choose to list them or not as they wish. Everybody gets to do what they want, as is the point.
I love when people conflate rights and ethics. I agree with you that no one has a right to be listed on Fedi Garden. And I still think it’s not nice to pressure admins into taking choice away from users.
It’s literally a list of well-run servers. Do you not see how you’re attempting to ‘take away choice’ from the proprietors of the list by telling them who they must list and what criteria they must use for their website?
You’re perfectly capable of doing what they’ve done. Go spend the time to curate a list, put up a simple little site, and make your own decisions. Nobody’s stopping you. That’s the point of federation and independence. You get to do what you want if you have the follow-through.
Admins likewise can do whatever they like. They can choose to federate with threads or to not.
Personally, I think it’s a little shady to run around shaming people who put their time and effort into projects and insist that they must lick Meta’s boots. Little bit suspect.
Your hyperbole makes it obvious you have no place in a reasonable debate about this topic.
No, you see, when the server demands something I dislike that is removing choice. And when I demand something the server dislikes that is defending freedom.
I agree 100%. I don’t need someone else overriding my existing right to decide whether I want to block or not (where is that going to stop). Anyway, I connect and follow individuals, not their whole instance. I’m not going to see anything from Threads unless I choose to follow someone. And if any friend reboosts stuff I don’t like (from Threads or anywhere else) I block that “friend”.
To some extent, most instances already do that on some instances, whether they do it for Threads or not.
So, you’re @[email protected].
Your home instance is lemmy.ml. Its federation list is at:
https://lemmy.ml/instances
It includes in its Blocked Instances list, has defederated with, 181 instances.
Now, you might well agree with some of those being blocked. Like, maybe they’re spammers or harassing people or God knows what. They might host speech that might be illegal in some jurisdictions, be classified as hate speech there. They might contain content that’s socially-unacceptable in some countries – one of my first experiences on the Threadiverse was being sent by a random kbin.social sidebar comment recommendation into a conversation that Ada, the lemmy.blahaj.zone instance admin, was having with some guy in the Middle East, whose country had apparently blocked that instance at the national firewall level due to it having LGBT content or something like that. There’s pornography on lemmynsfw.com. Consentual-nonconsentual and synthetic child pornography on burggit.moe. Piracy material on lemmy.dbzer0.com. Some instances won’t approve of that being accessible from their instances, and in those cases, the instance admin is already blocking things.
I chose my home instance – lemmy.today – specifically because it was an instance policy to try to avoid defederating with instances, and it presently has an empty blocklist. But as best I can tell, most instances have some level of content or user behavior or whatever on other instances that they consider unacceptable and will defederate over. Maybe not it’s not Threads, but they’re aiming to block something.
Good points. Yes, I do prefer to give an instance at least the benefit of the doubt. Difference tho really with Fediverse is you have to search and follow stuff to see it. It does not get inserted into your feed through ads or people playing the algorithms. So generally I’m only seeing what I follow. I suppose we do need to choose our instances wisely. Certainly, if an instance (not just a user on it) is really spamming or impacting on other instances, I suppose there can be grounds to block it. But we have not all been spammed yet by Threads. I don’t like Threads (cancelled all my accounts years ago) but I left a few good friends and family there that I would like to reconnect with, and follow them. I also like that my metadata stays on the Fediverse side, so I don’t need a Threads account or their app tracking me.
I just would not like to be denied the option to even reconnect with my family and friends. Same goes for WhatsApp interoperating on Signal protocol - I have many friends and colleagues I left behind on WhatsApp, and would like to reconnect again with them.
https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2022/09/myanmar-facebooks-systems-promoted-violence-against-rohingya-meta-owes-reparations-new-report/
Edit: In case you need more citations for why Meta is a worthless and unethical company…
And this is their announcement on this oddly specific rule.
I mean, the wording “cited in multiple reports of massacres or genocides” is strange enough. An organization can be “cited” for doing anything. Can I write up two BS reports so that we ban any instance I don’t like? Sounds like a teenager mimicking a TV politician speak, tbh.
Fediverse should be based on a mature protocol imo.