Left wingers say this about forced birthers or antivaxxers.
The left wing version is usually about people getting cancelled after saying unwoke things. And the phrasing they usually use is something along “Oh no! It’s the consequences of my own actions!”
Yeah corporations have no recognition of human rights in their charter, so when a corporation mistreats you that’s just your own fault for putting your life in the hands of a corp.
I’m not trying to claim that the “consequences” are the same. The cancel culture thing is more than “being called an asshole” and can ruin or at least severely damage a person’s career, but it’s still not as bad as systematic persecution or abuse of power.
I’m not trying to claim that the “actions” are the same either. Mainly because I think it’s futile - any internet discussion on that topic will be 100% political disposition and 0% actual attempt to analyze the severity of said actions.
I will mention though - risking that merely mentioning this will derail the entire discussion - that both you and @[email protected] have each elected to diminish one of these parameters (“calling you an asshole” vs ruining one’s career, and “a cop think you might have committed a crime” vs exercising a politically controversial right). In both cases there was no need for that - in both cases the right-wing practice is worse than the left-wing practice even if you don’t try to manipulate the argument. So why do it?
(this is more aimed at you than at starman. Like I said before - when it comes to the “actions” part, the political bias is very strong, and I can totally see how a conservative would claim that participating in a protest is worse than using racial slurs. Still - that’s no excuse to use a strawman)
But the real point I was trying to make is about the sin shared by both left and right: trying to present the “stupid prizes” or “consequences” as an unavoidable law of nature, where it is in fact the intentional actions of humans trying to punish that behavior. If you think certain actions deserve punishment, stand behind this - don’t try to disguise it as a “consequence”. The punishment is derived from your beliefs, not from the laws of nature.
There’s a fundamental difference between someone getting hurt trying to fight for their human rights, versus someone getting hurt fighting to take away other peoples human rights.
There is no such thing as human rights (at least in my country). Calling it that probably makes you feel your cause is superior and the other side is evil. Quite convenient. All my rights are guaranteed by the constitution, and federal/state/local laws. If it’s not listed in these examples, it is not a right.
This was created by the UN, which has no power to enforce such a document. It does not apply to every country. Not every country is a member of the UN. A group of powerless humans can’t go around enforcing their views on others. According to your link, member states: “have pledged themselves to achieve, in co-operation with the United Nations, the promotion of universal respect for and observance of human rights and fundamental freedoms”. With that said…
No one shall be held in slavery or servitude
I believe leftists feel being forced to perform manual labor while imprisoned is a form of slavery/servitude. China is a member of the UN, and their treatment of Uyghur muslims is pretty well known at this point.
No one shall be subjected to torture or to cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment.
There have been many reports (long ago and recently) of the US government using torture as a means to produce information.
No one shall be subjected to arbitrary arrest
I don’t have to tell you how often someone is frivolously arrested in the US.
I could go on but you get the picture. My own country doesn’t enforce these “universal human rights” thus, in the US, they are meaningless and basically don’t exist. Maybe other countries do a better job, and good on’em, but for the United States, there is no such thing as “human rights” only what the law allows and doesn’t allow, as I stated previously.
Every time y’all talk like this it makes you sound like you don’t think human rights should be respected or enforced.
I believe leftists feel being forced to perform manual labor while imprisoned is a form of slavery/servitude.
Yes, prisoners are outsourced via the private prison system to work jobs. In most prisons, this work is required by them. In most prisons, the inmates are paid less than $1 per hour. In several States, they he completely unpaid.
Seeing as the definition of slavery is defined by loss of rights, majority or total dependance on ones captors, and forced labor- yes, imprisonment in the US seems to be definitionally slavery, and so are most prison programs around the world.
China is a member of the UN, and their treatment of Uyghur muslims is pretty well known at this point.
There have been many reports (long ago and recently) of the US government using torture as a means to produce information.
I don’t have to tell you how often someone is frivolously arrested in the US.
These are all railed against by leftists as violationsmof human rights, constantly.
Yes, human rights are not some God-given rule of physics. They have to be fought for constantly.
Yes, the US is a hypocritical body that violates its own tenants constantly.
This does not mean ‘human rights don’t exist’. They are defined and codified. Their enforcement is does not determine their existence.
I never stated “human rights” shouldn’t be respected or enforced. I said, in the US, they don’t exist. They were not created by congress, then enshrined into law. It is a concept created by the UN over 70 years ago, and yes, the US was a member at that time, but as you clearly agree, we certainly aren’t enforcing all of those “human rights” conceived by the UN. I don’t know how to make this any clearer.
A wonderful idea, but unless said country has adopted them, then enforcing them, they’re meaningless.
All my rights are guaranteed by the constitution, and federal/state/local laws. If it’s not listed in these examples, it is not a right.
A quick glance shows that even your constitutional rights have no weight. The system makes exceptions all the time and wields ambiguity like a weapon. All rights mean nothing when promised by a hypocritical and opportunistic state.
The difference is that one group is getting excessively hurt because of government response, which is something that can be changed through policy; while the other gets hurt by their own actions because they’re fucking r******d and thought disregarding a pandemic was a good idea, not because of the response the government might take
They’re referring to different things, plus when it’s referred to disproportionate police action, it serves as justification for the police replying with illegal brutality, rather than investigating and punishing police officers who break the law
Yeah, again, they can be different levels of justified, there is still two sides doing it. Celebrating the death of someone evil vs celebrating the death of someone good is still celebrating someones death.
You have just framed it in a way that makes the right look bad, but the left is just as bad. Literally the left calls for punching “Nazis”, and they define Nazis as people that have different opinions than them.
Heard it here first, folks! The problem with the left is how its impossible to tell if theyre joking or not when calling ppl nazis. reviews the super duper long list of times The Left TM has called someone a nazi for the lulz yup, seems legit!
The problem is that you cant tell if what they are saying is true or some new absurd thing they believe. The bad part is how they just adopt absurd things, not their insane beliefs of nazis.
How is this a right wing problem not a both sides problem?
Right wingers say this about protestors or whistleblowers.
Left wingers say this about forced birthers or antivaxxers.
You with your amazingly void intellect: bOtH SiDeS
The left wing version is usually about people getting cancelled after saying unwoke things. And the phrasing they usually use is something along “Oh no! It’s the consequences of my own actions!”
Getting fired from your job for calling someone the n word is not the same as getting beaten because a cop think you might have committed a crime
Yeah corporations have no recognition of human rights in their charter, so when a corporation mistreats you that’s just your own fault for putting your life in the hands of a corp.
Do you really not understand the difference betweene me calling you an asshole, and being stalked by glowies?
That’s not my point though.
I’m not trying to claim that the “consequences” are the same. The cancel culture thing is more than “being called an asshole” and can ruin or at least severely damage a person’s career, but it’s still not as bad as systematic persecution or abuse of power.
I’m not trying to claim that the “actions” are the same either. Mainly because I think it’s futile - any internet discussion on that topic will be 100% political disposition and 0% actual attempt to analyze the severity of said actions.
I will mention though - risking that merely mentioning this will derail the entire discussion - that both you and @[email protected] have each elected to diminish one of these parameters (“calling you an asshole” vs ruining one’s career, and “a cop think you might have committed a crime” vs exercising a politically controversial right). In both cases there was no need for that - in both cases the right-wing practice is worse than the left-wing practice even if you don’t try to manipulate the argument. So why do it?
(this is more aimed at you than at starman. Like I said before - when it comes to the “actions” part, the political bias is very strong, and I can totally see how a conservative would claim that participating in a protest is worse than using racial slurs. Still - that’s no excuse to use a strawman)
But the real point I was trying to make is about the sin shared by both left and right: trying to present the “stupid prizes” or “consequences” as an unavoidable law of nature, where it is in fact the intentional actions of humans trying to punish that behavior. If you think certain actions deserve punishment, stand behind this - don’t try to disguise it as a “consequence”. The punishment is derived from your beliefs, not from the laws of nature.
I mean, you just re-affirmed it is both sides. The difference is that you agree with one of the sides.
There’s a fundamental difference between someone getting hurt trying to fight for their human rights, versus someone getting hurt fighting to take away other peoples human rights.
And they’d probably say the opposite is the case.
They’d be incredibly stupid – bordering on braindead.
I mean, isn’t that what most sides say about their opponents? Or that they’re evil
“Enlightened centrists” really have no ability to think, huh?
I’m not a centrist in any way
Removed by mod
Rule 1
There is no such thing as human rights (at least in my country). Calling it that probably makes you feel your cause is superior and the other side is evil. Quite convenient. All my rights are guaranteed by the constitution, and federal/state/local laws. If it’s not listed in these examples, it is not a right.
I was just referring to the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, which applies to every country across the world, your country included.
This was created by the UN, which has no power to enforce such a document. It does not apply to every country. Not every country is a member of the UN. A group of powerless humans can’t go around enforcing their views on others. According to your link, member states: “have pledged themselves to achieve, in co-operation with the United Nations, the promotion of universal respect for and observance of human rights and fundamental freedoms”. With that said…
I believe leftists feel being forced to perform manual labor while imprisoned is a form of slavery/servitude. China is a member of the UN, and their treatment of Uyghur muslims is pretty well known at this point.
There have been many reports (long ago and recently) of the US government using torture as a means to produce information.
I don’t have to tell you how often someone is frivolously arrested in the US.
I could go on but you get the picture. My own country doesn’t enforce these “universal human rights” thus, in the US, they are meaningless and basically don’t exist. Maybe other countries do a better job, and good on’em, but for the United States, there is no such thing as “human rights” only what the law allows and doesn’t allow, as I stated previously.
Every time y’all talk like this it makes you sound like you don’t think human rights should be respected or enforced.
Yes, prisoners are outsourced via the private prison system to work jobs. In most prisons, this work is required by them. In most prisons, the inmates are paid less than $1 per hour. In several States, they he completely unpaid.
Seeing as the definition of slavery is defined by loss of rights, majority or total dependance on ones captors, and forced labor- yes, imprisonment in the US seems to be definitionally slavery, and so are most prison programs around the world.
These are all railed against by leftists as violationsmof human rights, constantly.
Yes, human rights are not some God-given rule of physics. They have to be fought for constantly.
Yes, the US is a hypocritical body that violates its own tenants constantly.
This does not mean ‘human rights don’t exist’. They are defined and codified. Their enforcement is does not determine their existence.
I never stated “human rights” shouldn’t be respected or enforced. I said, in the US, they don’t exist. They were not created by congress, then enshrined into law. It is a concept created by the UN over 70 years ago, and yes, the US was a member at that time, but as you clearly agree, we certainly aren’t enforcing all of those “human rights” conceived by the UN. I don’t know how to make this any clearer.
A wonderful idea, but unless said country has adopted them, then enforcing them, they’re meaningless.
A quick glance shows that even your constitutional rights have no weight. The system makes exceptions all the time and wields ambiguity like a weapon. All rights mean nothing when promised by a hypocritical and opportunistic state.
The difference is that one group is getting excessively hurt because of government response, which is something that can be changed through policy; while the other gets hurt by their own actions because they’re fucking r******d and thought disregarding a pandemic was a good idea, not because of the response the government might take
Your disagreement can be justified, that doesn’t make it not something said it by both sides.
They’re referring to different things, plus when it’s referred to disproportionate police action, it serves as justification for the police replying with illegal brutality, rather than investigating and punishing police officers who break the law
Yeah, again, they can be different levels of justified, there is still two sides doing it. Celebrating the death of someone evil vs celebrating the death of someone good is still celebrating someones death.
I have great news for you: advances in biomedicine project that you might be able to grow a brain in the next 50 years.
Rule 1
You have just framed it in a way that makes the right look bad, but the left is just as bad. Literally the left calls for punching “Nazis”, and they define Nazis as people that have different opinions than them.
Different opinions like?
Anything that includes one of the -ism or -phobias. They will call people like Tucker Carlson and Ben Shapiro Nazis.
That’s cause Tucker and Ben are nazis you halfwit.
The funny part is I cant tell if you are joking or not, and that is the problem with the left.
Heard it here first, folks! The problem with the left is how its impossible to tell if theyre joking or not when calling ppl nazis. reviews the super duper long list of times The Left TM has called someone a nazi for the lulz yup, seems legit!
Eta: formatting, clarity
The problem is that you cant tell if what they are saying is true or some new absurd thing they believe. The bad part is how they just adopt absurd things, not their insane beliefs of nazis.