I love living in a car free city. I can’t believe America doesn’t build more cities like mine.
What city?
san francisco
Exactly, no one drives in New York City also, who wanna drive in that traffic?
Huh, weird that when I was there, there were literally thousands of cars. Probably just hallucinated it
That’s not really what car free means.
For years I’ve somehow missed this. Cars driving on nearly every street and somehow that “car-free”, yeah makes perfect sense.
I think it’s because the bar is so low, just the ability to choose to walk for everyday commuting, errands, and leisure qualifies as car free. Ie, you can choose to be car free if you want.
Oh. So you mean the places where you have to be rich to live at a nice place, while everyone else has to live in a tiny apartment in a huge building that’s been borderline uninhabitable since the 1970’s?
Yeah I don’t understand that at all. I thought car free meant a place, usually a part of town, where cars are not allowed. Those places exist. So to call places nothing like that “car free” seems pretty useless imo
I guess that’s one way to understand that word.
Colloquially it is used to refer to the capability of a place that allows its inhabitants to live car free.
Completely banning cars is rarely a demand because it makes no sense. A car is not a problem, hundreds of them are. Especially if they are used and required for everyday mundane tasks.
The only city that I know of that fits that definition is Venice, Italy. I’ve been able to live car free in SF for 10 years.
I would make every city Macinac Island if I could, minus the horses.
SF and Oakland aren’t car-free, they are car outsourced. You don’t drive, you have someone drive you. Other then a very narrow stretch of Down Town SF to Oakland, most of that metro area isn’t served by public transit. Unlike say NYC where most of the metro area IS served by public transit. (It’s still not car free though.)
What, I had no idea it was car free! That’s awesome!
That’s ridiculous. SF is not car free at all!
So do you still utilize Uber or driving services? If so you’re still dependent.
I’ve used taxis a handful of times over the past 10 years. Mostly for surgery related things.
Lots of cyclists get hit by cars in SF. How is that possible if it’s car free?
I can’t tell if this is sarcasm or not.
I’m living a car-free lifestyle, despite holding a license to drive. It’s more freedom than I’ve ever had.
I sometimes make the mistake of driving to college because it’s faster. I’m always way less happy and focused (and sad cause of having to pay for parking). Ebikes are the shit. It’s about 15 minutes driving and a 25-30 minute bike ride.
Been there at times. It’s great not having to pay and worry about a car (done that at times as well). Yet, if you need to move house or get somewhere difficult, you can lease or borrow a car or van. And you can be an extra driver on trips.
I feel like this is people about most things. Most people aren’t very imaginative.
They’re kind of stupidly in favor of how things are, but once it changes they’re like this is great I don’t know why we didn’t do it before.
Like imagine if free public libraries didn’t exist and someone tried to create them. Conservatives would shit their pants hating it.
Not just conservatives.
Yah, Plenty of liberals shit them selves when you suggest giving an unalloyed good away for free.
Conservatives wouldn’t create libraries at all.
Liberals will create libraries by contracting it to private companies who mismanage and embezzle.
Might be a fun social experiment to propose a public gun lending armory. Like a library, you can walk in and check-out an AK-47 for a day or week for free. But just like the library charges for printed pages, you would have to pay for the ammo.
I think there should be libraries for all sorts of things. For example, everyone on my street has their own lawnmower, trimmer, etc. And very rarely do people mow their lawns at the exact same time. It would be a lot more efficient if there was a place to check out the lawnmower to mow your lawn and put it away for someone else to use.
They are on the rise.
My city has a tool library program that sounds exactly like this (I haven’t tried it yet, not sure how well it works in practice). Would be especially nice for one-off sorts of tools you don’t expect to use often.
The downside is you’d need to line up your project with their hours, and hope no one else is using it when you need it. But if you have the flexibility to plan ahead, could be a nifty resource.
That’s a neat idea.
Of course, conservatives would oppose it. They’d probably say that it’s socialism and thus axiomatically bad.
And that it’s simply impossible to keep those shared tools in good repair while actively sabotaging the program.
Some people are just anti social.
That would be pretty cool actually. Some gun ranges already do this kind of thing but only on the premises.
IMO part of the fix for that is liberating psychedelics. There has been some research finding that if someone takes psilocybin (shrooms) before they reach the age of 35, they are significantly more open minded for the rest of their life. Though I’m not sure how they controlled for the question as to whether the drug makes people more psychologically flexible or whether they are more psychologically flexible in the first place if they are willing to try it.
Either way, it seems to naturally follow that conservatives proportionally tend to avoid psychedelics. It’s anecdotal but my fellow psychonauts are all liberal.
As French :
Amsterdam my love.Almost no cars at all,
Pure joint, with no tobacco,
No noise,Europeans and their weed with tobacco, smh my head
Ah ah you know it. For real.
PS : for the anecdote, tobacco is forbidden inside a coffee shop there.
My friend went to France back in the day and blew people’s minds when he rolled a tobacco free joint
Never really put tobacco in a joint, but i do love to spliff my blunts. The tobacco really smooths out the weed and is calming.
Tobacco mixed with cannabis seems like a good way to ruin quality weed.
So you don´t like blunts? Why do you even mind how others enjoy their weed, just let people do their thing, smh …
If that’s what people want to do on their own, that’s fine. My issue is when they hand it to you saying it’s a joint, only to be surprised when it’s basically a cigarette with a tiny bit of weed sprinkled in. I hate smoking tobacco.
I’ve quickly learned to always ask what is actually in it before accepting.
My issue is when they hand it to you saying it’s a joint, only to be surprised when it’s basically a cigarette with a tiny bit of weed sprinkled in.
Agreed, that is in fact pretty disgusting. I was thinking of a 1:1 ratio at max, with less tobacco than that it should not be called a joint.
If I use any tobacco at all, its just pure tobacco at the tip as a filter. You dont really smoke it if you dont want to, but it prevents wasted flowers
To be fair, that’s just what’s called a joint in Germany. Maybe a 70/30 ratio of tobacco to weed.
Yeah, I’ve been living in Germany. Learned quite quickly to never trust a “joint”.
Ya’ll should learn the word “spliff”. That’s what it’s for.
Yeah we should. I guess younger people already do.
Fortunately, this is an inaccurate generalization.
Well that’s just from my perception in the Rhineland region in the 90s and 2000s.
Of course, we used mainly other terms like Dübel, Tüte or Sportzigarette.
How would you differ?
I did not refer to the name but to the ratio. It very much depends on the scene imo. It reaches from pure weed in the reggae scene, a 1:1 mix in the hiphop scene, to almost pure tobacco in “weekend weed smoker” scenes and also just depends a lot on the individual who rolled. That is of course only my personal experience.
No I don’t. I’ll take hemp wraps though.
Makes sense, enjoy!
You too! 😎
Disneyland is a good comparison for some Americans: imagine having to drive to each ride and restaurant
“What seems to work best is a carrot-and-stick approach—creating positive reasons to take a bus or to cycle rather than just making driving harder.”
I guess this is why we shouldn’t only play the “fuck cars” tune but also include melodies like “we love to bike” and “public transport is fun” 😉
Public transport IS fun! Much easier to masturbate on the train than while driving a car
Unfortunately it’s easier (say: cheaper) to make driving so expensive and hard that it makes public transport look like the carrot, than actually making public transport more attractive so it actually becomes the carrot.
That’s why the method is called carrot and stick!
public transport is fun
Unfortunately here public transport is seen as something best left to ‘the market’, instead of treating it as a public commodity which gets its economic value from enabling people to contribute to economy by enabling them to get to work, go shopping etc. So now ticket prices are ridiculous, to the point where taking the car is 2-3 times cheaper. And of course you’ll need to get to said transport first. Need a bus? If you do not live in a city or larger town you’re just shit out of luck after 18:00 or so. Need to be somewhere, somewhat early in the morning? Wel tough luck for you, make sure to have somebody with a car standby to drop you off at the nearest train station. I want to like public transport and consider it fun, but my experience every time I try it is pain, suffering and awkward schedules instead. ☹️
Okay, now factor in car insurance and maintenance costs. I don’t buy your statement “taking the car is 2-3 times cheaper”.
Depends on how badly gouged your “local” prices are…
Where I live some train lines have gotten way better in recent times, others still cost an arm and a leg with unreliable trains and if you allow amortized car costs the car might still be competitive… (although I absolutely grant you that utility factoring in the amount of stuff you can do on a train ride both long and short is way way higher than while driving)
It’s definitely not generally cheaper in Germany if you only need to move regional. But I’m interested in a comparison with any other country. I guess an urban area would be a requirement for a fair comparison.
If you care to look further into this, look for cost per kilometer estimates, factoring all the costs of owning your own vehicle vs. the cost per kilometer of taking public transit.
Can you specify where “here” is?
I imagine bikes will be very useful in making US cities walkable. The streets have been built very wide to make space for cars, which would make walking more tedious, but bikes are the perfect solution to this bc they let you cover more (flat) distance with just the power of your legs.
Every two lane road has enough space for four lanes of bicycles (one passing lane for ebikes and one lane for normal bikes going in each direction)
I love this. It’s a simple way to train an open-minded carbrain that there are easy ways to convert existing infrastructure on the cheap!
Due to the pandemic, people needed more outdoor space in cities (since its unsafe to eg eat indoors), so NYC closed roads to cars and turned them into basically public parks.
When the shops started opening again, they city got a lot of pressure and they made a campaign to close I think 25% of the city’s roads to cars in some years
Unfortunately, still not car free
Pressure from businesses and the auto industry lobbyists, I presume.
Imagine if NYC didn’t give in! Imagine if we didn’t give in to corporate interests on the regular. Imagine if we came together to fight for good community-building things…
No I’m saying they already made the comittment. Its what the people wanted.
People absolutely be going the e bike route.
The only thing keeping me from regularly using bikes or ebikes for short distance travel are the cars and trucks sharing the same space that ignore bike lanes and try to get as close as they can to you when they pass you, and if I try to use the largely unused sidewalks and dip into the street to avoid the occasional pedestrians I get a ticket.
ignore bike lanes and try to get as close as they can to you when they pass you
That’s why protected bike lanes are the ideal, preferably grade separated from the road. Remove the problem via infrastructure, and more people will bike.
Ebikes.
deleted by creator
Why would anyone hate that? To me it sounds like a utopia. I just had to buy new tires for my car @#$%*!
Boomers. I was blown away when I went to a city hall meeting about expanding the roads and hearing their hot takes.
After the wave of old boomers (most of the audience) complained about how dangerous the whole world has become that they can’t even take their trash out on the street, they say a walkable city just opens up “more danger”.
To them, walkable streets means seeing more diversity, which is apparently super scary.
It makes perfect sense when you understand modern city design as a form of mostly unconscious but purposeful violence, that pretty much defines the middle class Boomer generation in wealthy rich countries. Structural violence… as far as the eye can see!
US Boomers love that shit, the prison system, healthcare, highway design, the tax filing system the list just goes on and on.
I really wish my parents generation could have just been skipped and instead I had parents from the previous generation who actually fought for something and understood how to defend workers rights.
“Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. And, weak men create hard times.“
Yeah, what about my property values?? Will someone think of my property valuessss 😭😭😭
“People don’t want to give up their freedom”
- The older generation
I love living car free with my needs in walking/biking distance. However I feel like the car centric problem runs deeper than basic groceries and transit to work. I live near the gorgeous rocky mountains, but our buses only really run to the ski slopes, and only in winter. It’s a true shame to be so close to nature and have my option for access restricted to a rental car. So naturally there’s a plan to build the worlds largest gondola directly to resorts to address traffic. Cause god forbid we just ran more effective bus service year round.
Gondolas are probably a lot more efficient than busses though, I’d have thought.
But they will not stop at any trailheads, just the resorts. Additionally it is unnecessarily expensive to build and ride. Also the additional environmental impact of building and maintaining it rather than using existing roads. It’s purely being built for convenience to reduce traffic in/out of the canyon.
You have long distance gondalas?
Gondolas can actually work as public transit. Depending on terrain they are actually a very efficient solution. You can find them in a few cities.
Is there a FAQ about living in car free cities? For example, how do you travel to another city? What do you do if the city has high slopes making walking and biking too hard? Or how do elders deal with what other citizens would take for granted in terms of mobility?
Also “car free” doesn’t have to mean literally zero cars allowed, but just build and layout the city so you never have to use one for daily errands.
I live next to a grocery store and it’s literally the best thing ever, grocery trips take 10 minutes max, I only end up using the car on weekends for hobbies or to visit family and friends.
From what I’ve seen from Not Just Bikes, there’s also car-sharing. There are services to make it super easy to borrow a car for as little as a few hours if you just need to lug some furniture or something.
“Car-free cities” gave the wrong idea. I’d call them walk-friendly cities instead, but I guess that ship has already sailed. Thank you for sharing your knowledge and first-hand experience.
The term “city” can actually be confusing too since it might mean the most central district of a metropolitan area, or it could mean the whole metropolitan area. There is some desire to make the most central parts car free in the way you thought (usually street by street in the centre of the CBD etc), but generally the broader area will not be.
I live in suburbia and the grocery store on the edge of my neighborhood is accessible via a dirt desire path. This beats so many of my friends neighborhoods, but these numbskulls couldn’t pour the 20 feet of sidewalk to connect the commercial to the residential, even though the sidewalk has a 2 foot long spur where it should be. 100% car brained.
Still, running to the store on my bike is just as fast as driving, if not a few mins faster.
how do you travel to another city?
Usually by bus or train.
What do you do if the city has high slopes making walking and biking too hard?
Walking is good for you, biking is not too popular in cities with slopes, but electic bikes are changing that.
Or how do elders deal with what other citizens would take for granted in terms of mobility?
There is definitely less mobility, but that is part of getting older isn’t it? Usually they just walk a bit slower and use busses and taxies.
Or how do elders deal with what other citizens would take for granted in terms of mobility?
Electric mobility scooters as well. I’m sure those are capable of much better range now, and it should keep getting better, and everything they need would ideally be close by
And what about cities with cold winters and tons of snow? 10 minutes outside here is no joke
I live in Toronto, and I don’t have a car. I use buses and subways for most of my commute in winter. Along with these options, I use bikeshare (public bicycle rentals) in every other season. There are people who bike even in winter but I’m nowhere close to that hardcore.
I’ve spent maybe $250 on uber in urgent/lazy situations in the last one year - that would’ve been a monthly auto insurance payment.
I waited for a bus for around 20 minutes in -18°C a few weeks back. The biggest problem was that I had overdressed so I started sweating and had to unzip a layer.
An important fact that people who have only ever lived in suburbs miss is that you don’t have to commute thaaat far thaaat often when you live in walkable cities. My cousin who lives in a suburb, drives for ~20 minutes to get to the closest big box store. I have 5 options for groceries in a 1 km radius and one of them is just one block over. So, I don’t even need a bus for groceries, let alone a car. We have seniors who definitely shouldn’t be driving walking around with grocery carts on the sidewalks. So, reducing car dependency improves mobility - not the opposite.
I drove from Dallas to Toronto in 2017 (you know, for fun), and I was amazed not only at how trim almost everyone looked but also at how many fucking people were on bicycles. Coming from the concrete jungle that is DFW, it was genuinely inspiring.
I’m happy to report that the number is cyclists is increasing every year with the addition of more bike lanes and a growing network of bikeshare stations. :)
You dress appropriately for the weather and the city actually bothers to clear the bike path quickly when it snows. Oulu does it that way.
Why Canadians Can’t Bike in the Winter (but Finnish people can)
Basically, proper bike infrastructure and snow-clearing make a world of difference. It’s not nearly as bad as it seems if you just put on a coat and get going.
I’m going to let you in on a secret, even though our Canadian cities are shit for people with a car there are still thousands of people in every city who get by year after year without one, because they can’t afford to buy one.
Not having a car sucks, but it is not a death sentence and would be a hell of a lot better if our cities didn’t assume everyone had one.
Something like this?
https://ebikehaul.com/products/q-runner-all-weather-4-wheel-mobility-electric-scooter
It’s still speed limited, it’s not a car.
Edit: that is a tad expensive though, would need to get costs down
Wouldn’t the elderly be a huge benefiter of a car free city? You get old enough or frail enough that you can’t drive. Then what?
I like in a city that provides free busses and trains to those aged 65+ if they ride in off peak hours, and it’s heavily used. This is in a city designed around cars.
For example, how do you travel to another city?
Train or car. Car free mostly refers to inner city trips, for special occasions it’s totally fine to use a car (e.g. moving, buying something big, a weekend trip, etc)
What do you do if the city has high slopes making walking and biking too hard?
Bus, ebikes, other types of electric assist stuff, walking. Crazy steep slopes do put a limit on exclusively human powered mobility (i.e. walking and cycling), but those places are incredibly rare.
Or how do elders deal with what other citizens would take for granted in terms of mobility?
A walkable city features amenities close by, plenty of benches to rest, and a solid bus system. There are absolutely no issues for people with restricted mobility. This applies to people with disabilities as well btw.
In fact I would turn that question around: how do elders deal with the requirement to drive a car to get groceries, etc? Isn’t that like super duper dangerous?
Thank you for your detailed reply. I was under the impression that cars and buses were out of the question. This clarifies a lot. Ebikes and electric devices, however, sound to me like something futuristic, probably because I live in latinamerica.
Steep-slope places are not the norm almost anywhere, but they are not really that scarce here. We probably would need to make some technological catch up.
About elders driving, well, it’s common that they have cars although they can’t/shouldn’t drive them. Some younger ones can step in and volunteer, usually family members, but not only. An arrangement can always be made when young people hardly owns a car.
Ebikes and electric devices, however, sound to me like something futuristic
There are kits enabling you to convert a muscle bike (push bike) into an e-bike. If you get one with a torque sensor, then it will detect how hard you push on the pedals and drive the motor proportional to that force. So you still must pedal but it amplifies your effort which preserves the natural feel and control of pedaling. It essentially makes the hills go away; a hilly place becomes a flat place.
That sounds cool. I’d still prefer to take a bus to feel safer in my car-centric town, but one can imagine living somewhere you just fire up your EPV and be gone. I reckon it requires very engaged local authorities.
Steep-slope places are not the norm almost anywhere, but they are not really that scarce here. We probably would need to make some technological catch up.
No worries Switzerland and Austria have you covered. Gondolas are only suitable for people and lighter loads, but funiculars can carry a ton of weight and can be built quite steep indeed, Chile has quite a few of them. In less extreme cases there’s good old rack railways. Funiculars are actually the oldest type of public transport in the world, invented before the industrial revolution, back then operated by water power (fill a tank in the top car, it will pull the bottom car up), and rack rail isn’t exactly new. The oldest were built to get stuff up and down from castles. Gondolas of the Mi Teleficero type are quite a bit newer and can reach quite impressive throughput numbers as the gondolas are unhooked from the wire in stations to make it possible to have a fast wire while not having to sprint when getting on (usually they move about at like 1/2 walking pace in the stations but you can also stop them completely for the elderly).
how do elders deal with the requirement to drive a car to get groceries, etc? Isn’t that like super duper dangerous?
Judging by some folks I’ve seen driving around with oxygen tubes in their noses: They just drive. And, yes, it is dangerous.
It’s cool and all, but trains have fixed routes that can’t take you almost everywhere. Of course I’d prefer trains over highways, just stating the current fact. Take for example every city I’ve lived in Mexico: trains never were an option to travel between cities. That’s changing, fortunately.
PEVs are still not very common around here, but that answers some questions. Thanks for your reply.
sensible places have enough railways that trains can practically take you everywhere, used to be that here in sweden we had railways even to teensy tiny villages a lot of the time.
Or how do elders deal with what other citizens would take for granted in terms of mobility?
Currently they alll use little electric mobility scooters, in cycle lanes when available, bacause its too dangerous to be any where there are cars here in Australia.
How do those with epilepsy get around, they can’t drive at least they can’t here in Australia. One lady with epilepsy I knew rode a little electric scoot, she loved having her independence.
What happens to people when they loose thier license in the US ?
I couldn’t tell. Barely know the US and it’s been a long time. Those were questions over the top of my head, out of curiosity, and coming from the wrong assumption that these cities were totally car-free with the only exception of emergency vehicles.
how do you travel to another city
Car co-ops is one way.
I have a car, but I’m also in one as it gives me access to different vehicle types that I sometimes need.
To get some places here I also need to take a ferry, and walking on and renting a car on the other end can be situationally cheaper.
What do you do if the city has high slopes making walking and biking too hard?
E-bikes and regular bikes with good gearing. And walking up slopes generally isn’t too challenging it’s just slow. Infrastructure can help here too by making sure there are paths that don’t go up hills unnecessarily. Fast and frequent public transport provides another option where walking and biking is less viable.
For example, how do you travel to another city?
Trains and buses. Car as a last resort (preferably one that is hired rather than owned, and preferably electric rather than an ICE).
Or how do elders deal with what other citizens would take for granted in terms of mobility?
Elderly people can’t (or shouldn’t) drive either so better walkability = better for the elderly since it gives options to get around without relying on a car. Good infrastructure design can help with disability access, and many disabled people can’t drive anyway.
Show me a car free neighborhood and I’ll show you insane real estate prices due to demand.
Then people will point to those prices as proof it’s a “failure” then spend 2-3x what they “save” on housing on auto loans/expenses.
I don’t hate the idea. I want a car free city.
I don’t think a car-free city actually exists. The article mentions Copenhagen:
“[London] has avoided the kind of outright car bans seen elsewhere in Europe, such as in Copenhagen”
I’ve been to Copenhagen. There are cars throughout the city. There are some cycle-only paths that connect to intersections with cars. I cycled along side cars all over the city. Apparently Wired is calling car-reduced cities and cities with small car-free regions a “car-free city”.
Exceptionally, Brussels is a car-free city but for only one day out of the year. And car-free day falls on a Sunday. On that day it becomes illegal to drive a car in the city center without a special pass after showing you have good reason to use a car on that day. But even on that day, the outer region of Brussels is unaffected.
I live in Copenhagen and only own a bike. The amount of cars and their size has risen drastically the last 10 years, it sucks. Almost nowhere in the city is actually car-free, but there are bike paths almost everywhere which is nice.
Not fully, but close enough cities exist: https://blog.dormakaba.com/pedestrian-paradises-top-4-car-free-urban-areas-in-the-world/
I dream of the day I can bike safely to my places. Right now I basically have the supermarket and two bars in distance, and then it’s a mess of double lane roads and highway ramps before I get to any bike friendly paths to go further afield. It really sucks.
Send an email to your local council. Attach photos, explain what could solve your horrible situation. Nothing will probably happen, but if many people start asking those things officially, in the long run it may help.
Don’t know about other Americans, but I would love to be able to have this kind of lifestyle. It’s just not realistic over here due to the infrastructure. It’s not within my power to make the changes necessary for it though.
It can start by advocating for new pedestrian areas in your city or town, maybe it’s only a block, but it’s a start
It’s crazy to see how the city centre of Ghent (Belgium) changed when they banned non-emergency cars from people not living/working in the centre. It went from some huge carparks with a few people walking between them to large squares filled with people enjoying the city and people who live here.
Every day I bike besides the Coupure channel to the train station and in the city I work in, I walk to the office besides the Dender river. Good infrastructure is basically keeping my mental health afloat.
