When you die you don’t immediately go to heaven or hell, you rot and are dead and that’s all you’ll do until the second coming (like it says in genesis, “from dust you came and to dust you shall return”). The dead know nothing, they feel nothing, they’re dead and won’t be going anywhere or doing anything unless God makes something else happen.
Heaven isn’t just about living forever, it’s mostly about being with God forever-- there’s really nothing to be afraid of about death, it’s just nothing. If you want to be with God forever, why wouldn’t you want to be with Him now? That’s why God gave us free will, so we can choose what we want to do, even if He wants us to do something else. Hell isn’t a place of eternal suffering, it’s just one if two choices: to be with God forever and to be apart from God forever.
(I really wish there were a word I could use to say hell that isn’t hell, it has way too many other connotations about eternal suffering and stuff) (also I’m not meaning “you” as in you specifically, I would say “one” but then it sounds like I’m trying to be posh)
That said, this post just goes to show how wildly a simple book can be interpreted.
Personally, I think it’s pretty clear on most things
(of course there’s room for different interpretations, but the main parts are pretty tricky to mistake if you read them openly)
When you really look into scripture, you come to realize it’s a book filled with words with no real truth outside of some dudes wrote it.
Not really, God told those dudes what to write
When you were a Christian, what did you believe about hell?
(I know you’re partly joking, but imma take you seriously for a sec since this is a good point)
Just because someone says that God told them something doesn’t mean that God actually told them. These things should always be checked against what we already know He said, we shouldn’t just believe them.
I see. So you have an explanation of why God changes his mind about the details, why there are so many variants in the texts, and why some random Letters, Epistles, and Gospels are missing? If God choosr to write a book why is he so bad at the task?
I was gonna say “thanks!” but then I figured you were already saying thanks so I was gonna say “no worries” but then that doesn’t really work either so yeah
If you mean what I think you’re meaning, then yeah pretty much. Everyone has a choice, you can choose to be with God forever or be apart from God forever. Personally, I’m with Him.
That’s about it but there’s no metaphorical dice rolling, you can make a choice and be certain that that’s the choice you’ve made.
Jesus is always calling, He wants to be with you but He won’t force you to be Him. “Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with that person, and they with me.” (revelation 3:20)
One can’t chose to believe something, you either believe it or you don’t. I don’t believe in God because there is no evidence for it, and nothing that cannot be explained without God, and no explanation involving God which isn’t made more complicated by His involvement. If God exists, and he did in fact create me, then he made me this way, incapable of belief without proof. So his choice is that I no be ‘with him’. I have no fee will.
I disagree, I think there’s plenty of evidence for God (if there weren’t, I might not be a Christian). As for balancing God’s omniscience/omnipotence with our free will, I think that’s just something you have to accept. Many people who are much smarter and wiser than me have tried to come up with a solution, but here’s what I think. I think that God is all-knowing and all-powerful, but he “offloads” some of that power and decision-making to us. I’m really not sure of a metaphor that would work for this, I could say that it’s like He’s reading a book and can flick back and forth to see what happens, back that wouldn’t work because the book’s already been written. I could say He’s writing a book but that wouldn’t work because the writer has complete control over everything the characters do. I could compare Him to a human king, but kings don’t know everything that happens and they don’t care about everybody.
Nothing you’ve said there constitutes an argument against any of my points. You don’t provide any evidence, just state a belief that it exists. You don’t address exactly how I can chose to believe in something. Nor how if I was created by God, said God must have invested me with scepticism, which in turn prevents my belief in said God.
I counter with deductive reasoning and the Epicurean Paradox. It’s not a question about is there a god. Can’t really solve that. The better question is does he deserve worship?
tbh the vast majority of the “weird religion stuff” is just what humans have put in front of God. If you want to be with Him forever, why not be with Him now? We don’t know when He’s coming back but it doesn’t really matter. When you die that’s it for you, you’ve made your final decision
(still meaning “you” as in “one” but not posh)
I disagree, I think the question of “is there a god?” can be answered near-conclusively, and yes, He is deserving of our worship. I watched the video you linked and to be honest, I’ve thought all of those things myself at times. But this world is fallen and broken. It’s not supposed to be like this. This isn’t how God made it. We were supposed to live forever with Him, but we fell and ran off with the devil. But someday soon, He’ll return and bring us back and everybody who wants to be with Him will be. “And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Look! God’s dwelling place is now among the people, and he will dwell with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. ‘He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death’ or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.”” (Revelation 21:3-4).
Yeeeeeah none of this is a response to the Epicurean Paradox.
Thing is, goodly godly in’t so good. An omnipotent being by definition should be capable of anything. Including rewriting the rules of logic and reasoning, math, and even how free will inherently WORKS.
For an “all powerful” being to neglect humanity in the way they have in order to “preserve free will” they have objectively proved themselves instead as torturers.
Thus, a god figure in our accepted reality can either be all loving OR all powerful. Not both.
All loving would certainly put them on better terms, but then it would make them an untrustworthy liar as they claim to be all powerful.
All powerful directly implies neglect.
And then of course you can argue an all powerful being works “beyond our understanding” but I would then propose that it should be within that beings power to allow us to understand… Which they have chosen not to.
Either way, the Abraham god is a lil bitch baby who is an outright liar about being either all loving or all powerful. I chose not to respect them, and frankly they deserve both barrels and the meat hook of a super shotgun to the face.
But if you die without God then we don’t know what happens (presumably God knows but on Earth, we’re working with limited information => rolling a dice)
We do have limited info, but God told us what happens-- you return to dust and are apart from Him, forever
When you die you don’t immediately go to heaven or hell, you rot and are dead and that’s all you’ll do until the second coming (like it says in genesis, “from dust you came and to dust you shall return”). The dead know nothing, they feel nothing, they’re dead and won’t be going anywhere or doing anything unless God makes something else happen.
Heaven isn’t just about living forever, it’s mostly about being with God forever-- there’s really nothing to be afraid of about death, it’s just nothing. If you want to be with God forever, why wouldn’t you want to be with Him now? That’s why God gave us free will, so we can choose what we want to do, even if He wants us to do something else. Hell isn’t a place of eternal suffering, it’s just one if two choices: to be with God forever and to be apart from God forever.
(I really wish there were a word I could use to say hell that isn’t hell, it has way too many other connotations about eternal suffering and stuff) (also I’m not meaning “you” as in you specifically, I would say “one” but then it sounds like I’m trying to be posh)
I used to be a Christian so I like to think I know my hermeneutics.
That said, this post just goes to show how wildly a simple book can be interpreted. I wasn’t a Seventh Day Adventist. I was a Calvinist.
It shows just how confident you can be in absolutely nothing.
When you really look into scripture, you come to realize it’s a book filled with words with no real truth outside of some dudes wrote it.
Personally, I think it’s pretty clear on most things
(of course there’s room for different interpretations, but the main parts are pretty tricky to mistake if you read them openly)
Not really, God told those dudes what to write
When you were a Christian, what did you believe about hell?
God also told me that you’re going to hell for being a Seventh Day Adventist. He inspired me to write it down and everything.
So you got that going for you.
(I know you’re partly joking, but imma take you seriously for a sec since this is a good point)
Just because someone says that God told them something doesn’t mean that God actually told them. These things should always be checked against what we already know He said, we shouldn’t just believe them.
I see. So you have an explanation of why God changes his mind about the details, why there are so many variants in the texts, and why some random Letters, Epistles, and Gospels are missing? If God choosr to write a book why is he so bad at the task?
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I was gonna say “thanks!” but then I figured you were already saying thanks so I was gonna say “no worries” but then that doesn’t really work either so yeah
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aaayyy bilateral thanks and no worries then
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If you mean what I think you’re meaning, then yeah pretty much. Everyone has a choice, you can choose to be with God forever or be apart from God forever. Personally, I’m with Him.
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That’s about it but there’s no metaphorical dice rolling, you can make a choice and be certain that that’s the choice you’ve made.
Jesus is always calling, He wants to be with you but He won’t force you to be Him. “Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with that person, and they with me.” (revelation 3:20)
One can’t chose to believe something, you either believe it or you don’t. I don’t believe in God because there is no evidence for it, and nothing that cannot be explained without God, and no explanation involving God which isn’t made more complicated by His involvement. If God exists, and he did in fact create me, then he made me this way, incapable of belief without proof. So his choice is that I no be ‘with him’. I have no fee will.
I disagree, I think there’s plenty of evidence for God (if there weren’t, I might not be a Christian). As for balancing God’s omniscience/omnipotence with our free will, I think that’s just something you have to accept. Many people who are much smarter and wiser than me have tried to come up with a solution, but here’s what I think. I think that God is all-knowing and all-powerful, but he “offloads” some of that power and decision-making to us. I’m really not sure of a metaphor that would work for this, I could say that it’s like He’s reading a book and can flick back and forth to see what happens, back that wouldn’t work because the book’s already been written. I could say He’s writing a book but that wouldn’t work because the writer has complete control over everything the characters do. I could compare Him to a human king, but kings don’t know everything that happens and they don’t care about everybody.
Nothing you’ve said there constitutes an argument against any of my points. You don’t provide any evidence, just state a belief that it exists. You don’t address exactly how I can chose to believe in something. Nor how if I was created by God, said God must have invested me with scepticism, which in turn prevents my belief in said God.
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Yes. This is Pascal’s wager.
I counter with deductive reasoning and the Epicurean Paradox. It’s not a question about is there a god. Can’t really solve that. The better question is does he deserve worship?
[I’d answer a resounding no. In fact, he should beg for our forgiveness] (https://youtu.be/-suvkwNYSQo?si=RU3xdD2iBJZrb80p)
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tbh the vast majority of the “weird religion stuff” is just what humans have put in front of God. If you want to be with Him forever, why not be with Him now? We don’t know when He’s coming back but it doesn’t really matter. When you die that’s it for you, you’ve made your final decision
(still meaning “you” as in “one” but not posh)
I disagree, I think the question of “is there a god?” can be answered near-conclusively, and yes, He is deserving of our worship. I watched the video you linked and to be honest, I’ve thought all of those things myself at times. But this world is fallen and broken. It’s not supposed to be like this. This isn’t how God made it. We were supposed to live forever with Him, but we fell and ran off with the devil. But someday soon, He’ll return and bring us back and everybody who wants to be with Him will be. “And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Look! God’s dwelling place is now among the people, and he will dwell with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. ‘He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death’ or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.”” (Revelation 21:3-4).
Yeeeeeah none of this is a response to the Epicurean Paradox.
Thing is, goodly godly in’t so good. An omnipotent being by definition should be capable of anything. Including rewriting the rules of logic and reasoning, math, and even how free will inherently WORKS.
For an “all powerful” being to neglect humanity in the way they have in order to “preserve free will” they have objectively proved themselves instead as torturers.
Thus, a god figure in our accepted reality can either be all loving OR all powerful. Not both.
All loving would certainly put them on better terms, but then it would make them an untrustworthy liar as they claim to be all powerful.
All powerful directly implies neglect.
And then of course you can argue an all powerful being works “beyond our understanding” but I would then propose that it should be within that beings power to allow us to understand… Which they have chosen not to.
Either way, the Abraham god is a lil bitch baby who is an outright liar about being either all loving or all powerful. I chose not to respect them, and frankly they deserve both barrels and the meat hook of a super shotgun to the face.
We do have limited info, but God told us what happens-- you return to dust and are apart from Him, forever