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The Vatican on Monday declared gender-affirming surgery and surrogacy as grave violations of human dignity, putting them on par with abortion and euthanasia as practices that reject God’s plan for human life.
The Vatican’s doctrine office issued “Infinite Dignity,” a 20-page declaration that has been in the works for five years. After substantial revision in recent months, it was approved March 25 by Pope Francis, who ordered its publication.
In its most eagerly anticipated section, the Vatican repeated its rejection of “gender theory,” or the idea that one’s gender can be changed. It said God created man and woman as biologically different, separate beings, and said people must not tinker with that plan or try to “make oneself God.”
“It follows that any sex-change intervention, as a rule, risks threatening the unique dignity the person has received from the moment of conception,” the document said.
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It took them five years to whip up a measly 20 pages of dipshittery? Magic space daddy is free to come down here himself and choke on my girl dick if they take such offense to me. Show up quick though I’ve got The Surgery™️ in two months. My unique dignity is I do whatever the fuck I want to with my body, and if god didn’t want that for me shouldn’t have given me the damn thing in the first place
Also I love that they’re like “don’t modify your precious god given body!” and in the same breath say intersex people should be “corrected”. Fuck these ghouls and fuck anyone who supports them
If God wanted the Pope to read, he would have given him better eyes. Take those things off right now, Mr. Pope. Glasses are an affront to God.
“don’t modify your precious god given body!”
“No doctor, you must not remove that child’s appendix! All parts of the body are made in god’s image, and if god wanted this child’s appendix to develop appendicitis, it is surely part of god’s plan!”
It’s much easier, if God wanted us to do something instead of any other things then why the fuck will give us free will, instead of making a bunch of robots.
From another viewpoint, though, we are all flesh robots. Our bodies are built on genetic programming, our personalities and behavior based on environmental stimuli. How much independent thought or agency can an individual claim to have when so much is predetermined the moment we draw first breath?
Might even be able to predict it all if you have a powerful enough computer.
I mean, if that is the case, then that means God built some people to be transgender and seek gender affirming care.
So either way, the church’s bit here is bullshit.
That’s my argument against the religious. If God created you, then he chose to make you trans or gay. He chose to make people skeptical. He chose to make people who need hard evidence to believe things.
If there is a creator who purposely made each of us, then It would see no moral difference between gay and straight, cis and trans. It would also not judge people for disbelief, because It made people who were predisposed to disbelief without extraordinary evidence.
All in all, fuck the religious. They don’t understand their own religion.
Oh 100%
He is some sort of sadist, the free will is so you don’t want to do whatever it is that you are forced to do. Either be miserable in life or suffer for eternity after death. He loves you a lot btw.
🙌
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And if anyone knows about violating human dignity, it’s the Pope.
…and his children diddling army of minions
So…god did not plan for the reality of the fluidity of genders? The all powerful all knowing god did not account for this in his plan?
Hey…shut up.
-Pope.
The Torah has eleven genders in it. The Jewish God is supposed to be the same one as the Catholic God, so clearly they haven’t read up on their own history
What’s fascinating there is that not only does the Talmud identify eight genders, but two of them specify having changed their gender presentation through human intervention - precisely the type of intervention that the Pope is decrying here.
I seem to recall a scripture about there being no male or female in the eyes of God. So not sure why old man pope is so offended.
Fuck Pope Francis. Love that he said “no its okay to do genital surgery on babies (literally less than 2 years old) if they don’t match what we decided was right for them”. Intersex people can just go fuck themselves in the Pope’s view I guess.
0 fucking consistency to any of their bullshit rhetoric. I think God’s core message is actually to shut the fuck up and let medical professionals address people’s health problems.
GRS literally saved my life. I would literally be dead if not for it. Transitioning allowed me to live a happy, fulfilled life. Anyone who tries to say that I shouldn’t have been able to transition, or should be forced to detransition, is unironically literally saying that I should be fucking dead. No part of me is a man. If God existed, then me as I am today was always his plan and design for me. Because otherwise he’s just a fucking asshole who literally created me just to suffer and die. If such a God existed I would have no qualms openly defying his creation, because no human being should be driven to suicide over something that real medical treatments exist for.
“ideological colonization”
The unbelievable fucking audacity for the catholic God damn church to accuse trans people of colonizing is so fucking wild. Such an unbelievable thing to say as someone who’s the head of an organization that goes around the world “converting people from their heathen religions to Christianity”. But somehow spreadings trans rights to be themselves and receive medical treatments that save their lives is “colonization”. I’ll tell that to the tens of thousands of dead native children buried outside catholic residential schools.
Glad you are now happy with yourself. Indeed, how should anyone but yourself tell you who you are?
Adults of sound mind should have the right to do to their body what they wish for whatever reason they wish. It’s nobody else’s business. But we can’t expect most ingrained religions or conservatives to accept this.
The problem is that millions of people think that the Pope has a direct line to their god and if the Pope says being trans is in violation of their god’s plan, they’re not going to be good to trans people and some religious trans people, especially the ones who aren’t out, will be driven further into the closet due to the self-hate.
The whole idea of a high pontiff is pretty terrifying. Look at the Crusades. How many people were killed because the Pope said to go kill them and people following him did what he ordered? There’s well over a billion Catholics. If the Pope said to rise up and kill and even 1% of them followed him, the bloodbath would be enormous.
Organized religion was a huge scam. Like our own bodies, it should be something personal or to show off at a dedicated club.
Prior to that people also used to attempt it on their own dying miserably in their way to Jerusalem. What they did was just giving a political form to a preexisting movement.
Perhaps, then, we shouldn’t accept conservatives or their religions.
It distinguished between gender-affirming surgeries, which it rejected, and “genital abnormalities” that are present at birth or that develop later. Those abnormalities can be “resolved” with the help of health care professionals, it said.
Of course. God created males to be male and females to be female, and any attempt to change that is an abomination… but he didn’t create intersex people to be intersex, and that must be “corrected”. Just goes to show, this is just man putting his hate in God’s mouth again.
Honestly, the main reason I don’t believe in God is because I can’t believe any all-powerful, just and benevolent God would allow things like this to be said in their name without any push back.
Honestly, the main reason I don’t believe in God is because I can’t believe any all-powerful, just and benevolent God would allow things like this to be said in their name without any push back.
Yep. I’ll believe in God when he starts smiting Philistines again.
Yeah, but what makes more sense is Dystheism…
"the belief that a god is not wholly good and can even be considered evil, or one and the same with Satan. Definitions of the term somewhat vary, with one author defining it as “where God decides to become malevolent”.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dystheism
'Kinda puts the proclamations of the church into perspective.
A malevolent god is certainly a possibility, but in that case, the absolute best thing I could do is not even acknowledge its presence.
Epicurus Dilemma… I also, cannot get past that
But touching little kids was definitely part of the plan.
Touching kids is their only plan.
Ok boomer. If trans people want to “make themselves God”, I support that. Whatever that is supposed to mean anyway.
This pope has always been nothing but a PR figurehead, he says nice platitudes, calls gay people friends, and everyone seems to buy his bullshit. Meanwhile, before he was Pope, he was a bigot, misogynistic, antiquated asshole. All the inclusive things he says are nothing but marketing.
You know what else violates human dignity? Shuffling around pedo priests so they get away with their abuses. Refusing to meet with or compensate victims of the clergy. Telling clergy not to cooperate with police etc. That’s what violates human dignity
God’s plan is just the alpha release, has a lot of bugs, and is not feature complete. Lol
Annoyingly stable tho. How we gonna speedrun without clipping through things?
Clipping through things is real.
That’d be some fun shit, some doug-adams-esque “throw yourself at it and miss” stuff except you’ve gone through a wall
Arguably our whole world only works because of clipping.
I wouldn’t call regular mass extinction events stability.
It’s not just the prelude event for the next expac?
He sounds a lot like Bethesda
…and when a bunch of really talented modders make things better than great a loud minority starts crying out “Nooo! Can’t play Skyrim with mods, it’s cheating! I don’t want anime tiddies and Thomas the Tank Engine in Skyrim! It’s not what Todd envisioned! Waaaa!”.
And yes, there actually is a certain bunch who think mods in a single-player game==cheating. Somehow.
Loud minority of folks running/ruining things for the other 2/3 or so seems to be a theme w humans.
I can’t imagine deliberately choosing to use the janky inventory/spell UI skyrim launched with
There are more masochists out there than you might think.
Believe it or not, when I made that comment, what I had in mind was Skyrim’s mammoths falling out of the sky, Barbas accidentally pushing me off a cliff, and the hired thugs going “we’re here to teach you a lesson” while I’m fighting Alduin and they helped me deal some damage before they died.
You should have seen my divine plan, I test them in worldbox. My first iteration was bombs. But than I saw that it wasn’t really good so I made a perfect Island and everyone is blessed. I was bored so i made everything immortal. Also they could not decalre wars because not death was to be in my world. On the year 332 the first king of the earliest kingdom had 24 kids and a well deserved golden tooth. On the year 1700 they were all very happy.
Still an atheist but I would love if I died and found out God was just a guy in a cubicle who inherited a mess from its coworker who was fired.
“Look I am sorry everyone keeps getting aids and cancer alright I am trying. Freaken galaxies weren’t rotating right so had to invent dark matter. Also Sharon ate the last donut and I get like a billion bug and feature requests from you apes every second. I didn’t sign up for any of this! Ok ok calm I am in my happy place…you should probably go to heaven now. It’s viking heaven but it’s working”
I feel like it would be a great fictional concept to explore the Christian God as not all powerful. He’s well connected, certainly, with how many priests there are around the world, but he still has limits. Bad stuff happening? He isn’t able to stop it, but wishes he could. Divine punishment for the truly sick individuals? He could, but it would mean he can’t prevent as much bad stuff as he already is, and humans do a decent enough job of dealing with the shitheads.
It was a bad idea to have God be omnipotent. The idea of a benevolent god who isn’t omnipotent and needs your help to spread good in the world is a far more compelling idea.
Some of the conceptions of early Judaism were like that, after they made their God all good it still struggled to fix stuff.
Remember kids: this is the leftwing darling good Pope.
Religion, not even once.
More of a liberal darling ya? Pretty sure the left is anti-pope in general.
I would basically be fine with the Pope if he stopped the child fucking. The bar is pretty low. I try to have a bit of empathy for the elderly not being very progressive.
Welp, turns out they’re still the same old Catholic Church after all. Whoda thunk it? 🙄
Fuck this bioessentialist piece of trash.
I don’t believe in any god, but even if I did I would not think such an entity had any right to dictate or make judgements on who I am and how I am, or my identity or purpose.
I’m so goddamn sick of this bullshit. I get to decide who I am and set my own path, fuck these people who think they get to tell me (and everyone else) what my life and body and purpose and identity are >:(
Really, I can’t even begin to describe how much I hate this sort of patronising bullshit, how many of us have to suffer or die because of the relentless repressive normativity imposed by these groups and their infantilising ideologies of self repression and obedience and compliance, especially with the “dignity” and “diversity” doublespeak they’ve been trying to use in the past few months even while they systematically try to erase those very same things from anyone who doesn’t fit into their suffocatingly binary and restricted conceptualisation of identity nya.
Our biology, identity and lives should be ours to control. We are capable of deciding our goals and purposes. I frankly hope more people realise they don’t need some patronising religious institution to tell them how they should exist or what their purpose should be (if any, some folks are more nihilistic), and seize their morphological autonomy and decision making from groups that would deny it to them under the guise of such bullshit as supposed “dignity” ^.^
Seriously, fuck this. The Catholic Church (and this “”“cool”“” pope), as well as pretty much all the other organised religious institutions who propagate the same infantilising and self-subjugating rhetoric, can go fuck themselves with a cactus in every available hole.
Christianity: Humans have free will.
No no not like that!
The “original sin” is having the potential to understand ethics beyond blind obedience to the Abrahamic diety and to make decisions for yourself (to my understanding of the concept).
“Having original thoughts beyond obedience” is the original sin.
Make of that what you will :p
“You deserve this because you wanted to know what was going on” is sure a take, but not one that’s ever gonna sit well with me.
You know what really violates human dignity? Being raped by a priest and then having the church cover it up.
Wasn’t Eve created from a man’s rib as an afterthought?
There are two creation narratives in the book of Genesis, and both are considered to be historical allegories.
Can we really handwave away the whole Adam and Eve thing though?
If we do, then what did Jesus die for?
The original sin. Which in most myths is acquiring knowledge or attaining sentience.
If we do, then what did Jesus die for?
The new motto for Vegas – if you don’t enjoy yourself, he died for nothing.
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Truly throwing a bone attack there are we
both are considered to be historical allegories.
How convenient that the “word of god” (as many churches describe the bible) is so open to human interpretation.
But the ability to interpret it is also flexible… Sometimes it’s to be taking verbatim, sometimes it has to be interpreted (but only by the right people, of course)
I have to warn you that some believe these are no allegory.
Are we still talking about Catholics?
Nope. Not that I’m aware. To be fair no Catholic I have met in ages is nearly as extreme as these guys. But from some of my interactions via social media…I have seen them.
I can’t say I really understand the argument against surrogacy they’re making here. It seems like the same argument would mean that adoption shouldn’t be allowed either. Their other argument on the matter seems to be that abuse of a system means a system should be eliminated, which is an interesting argument for the Catholic Church to make.
I can’t say I really understand the argument against surrogacy they’re making here
I remember a Bible story about a man that died before having an heir so his brother was to impregnate the widow. But surrogacy is bad for some reason?
Oh, surrogacy is something a woman could benefit from. Right.
I think their skydaddy logic is it can’t be done without discarding eggs and as we all know each egg has a soul.
Meanwhile they eat eggs during lent.
