Hey! So to make a long story short, about 2 months ago I learned that I’ll probably be PIP’ed (posted about this here btw and received super helpful advice, thanks <3). I thought this comes only from my direct manager (who is leaving now), but after talking to my skip level they seemed to support the decision. 
After learning this I immediately started reaching out to other teams who were hiring, because I’m in a big tech company and an external switch is complicated in the current market.

Fast forward, a manager from another team wanted to hire me. I didn’t want to raise any attention until I had a confirmation that this is a done deal. Hiring manager + recruiter told me they want to hire me, so I had to talk to my skip level & manager. I was really afraid of doing this too early because of how bad it looks if it doesn’t work out, but at this point I had no choice.

I phrased the conversations with my managers as asking for advice if it makes sense or not. Skip level told me immediately it’s a great idea and I should go for it, manager was more neutral, but there were no efforts made to retain me.

Last week, I told them that I’d decide to go for it, so my managers and the hiring managers had a conversation.

In the meantime, I did my job as usual and didn’t inform anyone else. This week I learned as expected that I’d be pip’ed in my current role if I stayed, so leaving would have been a good choice. However according to management the PIP isn’t designed to force me out but “to help me improve” (not very conifdent that they really mean it though).

This week, I also got informed though that eventually the other team moved forward with another candidate. Fair enough, no hard feelings, but why do you make me go to my managers if the decision isn’t final?

The reasons were:

  1. Concerns regarding remote work
  2. Technical skills

My company has RTO going on and I’m currently remote, apparently the new director is a fan of coming to the office.

Anyway, I’m applying externally, and I have some processes going on, but nothing concrete, so it seems like I’m forced to stay in my current role. I’d be okay with being laid off, but I can’t quit myself because I’d lose on a lot of benefits (not in the US) and also severance.

My idea was that I would need to say that eventually I backed off due to not being able to agree on some issues revolving around workmode and start date.

Afterwards I would then ask to sit down with manager & skip level and address the points that make me unhappy and ask for a clear trajectory from their side to address these and also on how they imagine collaborating given the PIP they triggered.

Does that seem to make sense to you? I mean if I can leave I will leave immediately, but currently that’s not an option yet.

So now I’m really wondering how to go from here? I’m currently aligning with the hiring manager & recruiter to align communication, but given that I already said I’m leaving that can only be damage control.

  • @[email protected]
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    3111 months ago

    Reality check time, You’re on your way out buddy. Companies don’t use PIPs as a last resort anymore, 99% of the time it’s to build the case to let you go without any blowback / unemployment and based on your history it sounds like this was a long time coming and you knew it. You didn’t get the other role because your current manager most likely gave the other team a heads up. Your only real option is to look externally at this point so it doesn’t really make sense to me why you wouldn’t at least try, If you’re in a big tech company what exactly makes it complicated to switch? If anything that should make it easier?

    • @kersplort
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      811 months ago

      His manager at least had the decency to warn him ahead of time about the PIP. Still - it seems mostly about forcing him out of his remote position.

    • @fololzlOP
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      11 months ago

      Definitely I’m on my way out. An external switch atm is just difficult because there aren’t that many open positions. I’m currently in one process where I profited from my network. Other than that it’s quite tough right now. ca. 1.5y when I was making the switch, I had to pick from 3 different offers and cancelled on a few final round interviews. The market is bad for my field right now, this is what makes the switch tough.

      And yeah I’m also assuming they gave the new manager a heads up. Too bad.

  • @[email protected]
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    1511 months ago

    It seems that they were happy that they could get rid of you. Other team probably got word about the problems with you, so backed out. I would say your days are counted, so look for a new role is a good idea. Any idea what was the REAL problem with you? Be honest. Do you suck at your job? That’s usually not a reason to annoy your managers. Are you unpleasant to collaborate with? Are you slacking? That’s more likely an issue. Unless your employer has access to a very good talent pool to replace your headcount.

    • @fololzlOP
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      411 months ago

      Yeah to be honest there were a few things that weren’t going well before. I wrote a lengthy post before and got helpful advice and definitely worked on some of the issues. The feedback was around communication and project management. I think I definitely needed to improve on these aspects and I’ve been doing my best ever since I received the feedback, but there has also been a lot of praise, so it’s a mixed bag.

      There were also problems with my manager. I interviewed with one hiring manager but never got to work with them, then worked for one year with a different manager and would now again have a new manager. Me and the manager I worked with just didn’t get along, my peers valued me and I’m pretty good friends with some of them. But the bad relationship with my manager definitely then didn’t help with my relationship with the skip level.

      Eventually, I think the issues I had and probably still have to resolve are serious, but the personal dynamics were tipping point.

      I am also unhappy with the current role because my technical skills are stagnating, we don’t have any product managers and are expected to fulfil the PM role next to full stack engineering for the projects we lead. It’s more business than engineering centered, meaning we are a cost center.

      A good thing is that promotions can happen quickly, even after bad performance reviews, there have been some cases. So it wouldn’t be all bad.

      Given that I’m also of the impression that they were happy to get rid of me, my ideal outcome would of course be if they offered me a severance but I don’t think they will.

      • @[email protected]
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        011 months ago

        I don’t know how to say this, but you write way too much. Probably part of the problem….

  • @[email protected]
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    511 months ago

    Either they are putting you on a PIP because they’re an awful company who wants to save on unemployment when you fail to return to office, or you really aren’t performing. If it’s the former, then just do whatever they ask other than RTO and make a case for yourself if they try to get out of severance and unemployment.

    If it’s because you really aren’t performing, then now is the time to start reading programming books and/or working on personal projects. You need to improve your tech skills and that will take effort outside of work.

    • @fololzlOP
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      311 months ago

      We already had two rounds of layoffs and now allegedly there are some quotas to fill to mark people as underperforming. I’m the latest person to join the team and the highest paid from what I know. I just read the quota part on our internal Blind board though, so I’m taking it with a grain of salt. But yeah, basically we’re in an unprofitable industry (think gig economy), and my company is falling behind. There’s a lot of pressure.

      Definitely there were some concerns about my performance that I take seriously, but yeah at this point I’d be happy to be offered severance.

  • @buxton
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    211 months ago

    PIPs? RTO? You work for amazon, right?

    If you want to work remotely and your director wants people back in the office then they’d probably want to get rid of you rather than having a remote worker other people could point to and say “but he works remotely, why can’t I?”. If that’s the case then your manager could have put you on a PIP so you’d come under unregretted attrition rather than regretted attrition.

    Managers can get judged on how many of their reports leave the company/team and if the company wants them to stay or not. If the manager can get rid of someone on a PIP then that looks good for the manager. Maybe this is what’s happened to you in this case.

  • Catasaur
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    111 months ago

    Doesn’t sound salvageable. At this point, keep your head down while you look for a a new job.

  • @fololzlOP
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    011 months ago

    Actually I got to talk to the hiring manager of the new team and it’s nothing like it seemed. They seemed genuinely sorry and told me that since they had already external candidates who successfully completed the whole loop they had to present to an external panel. The whole team wanted me but the panel pushed for a diversity hire. So no bad words from my team towards the manager apparently. Tough luck.

    Anyway I can kind of dictate the narrative in terms of communication by the recruiter and hiring manager towards my team. My company is super political, so any advice on how to proceed? I’m just planning to survive until I got an external offer but not relying on that.