• SuddenDownpour@sh.itjust.works
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    50
    arrow-down
    1
    ·
    5 months ago

    Can you solve the equation?

    Homelessness becomes illegal + For-profit prison system that’s allowed by law to force prisoners to work + increasing cost of rent + lower relative price of labor =

    spoiler

    Situation of dog eats dog, increasingly pauperized labor market where the poorest layer of the population gets enslaved, and the second poorest, and the third poorest, and the n-th poorest all will also fall one by one, because guess what? Free workers now have to compete in wages with prisoners.

    • blindbunny@lemmy.ml
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      12
      ·
      edit-2
      5 months ago

      They’re gonna learn the hard way there’s no such thing as free work when the workers slaves burn their factorys down.

      • GrundlButter@lemmy.dbzer0.com
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        5
        ·
        5 months ago

        That’s a refreshing thought, and I hope you’re right.

        If your labor is forced because you’re incarcerated, you’re absolutely justified in damaging your slavers any way you can. I’m not talking about work programs, unless they are “work programs” that you can be punished for not taking.

  • Makeshift@sh.itjust.works
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    35
    arrow-down
    1
    ·
    5 months ago

    What the actual fuck.

    No it doesn’t work like that.

    Sleeping outside while homeless I am sure isn’t a deliberate choice. Homeless people aren’t magic. They can’t conjure a building to sleep in from thin air. Making it illegal doesn’t give tgem magic building making powers or like teleportation or whatever these delusional idiots think it does.

    • halyk.the.red@lemmy.ml
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      41
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      5 months ago

      The purpose is to push people into the for-profit prison system, which rakes in billions in slave labor.

      • spikespaz
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        4
        arrow-down
        19
        ·
        5 months ago

        Can you please provide a source for this

        • halyk.the.red@lemmy.ml
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          24
          ·
          edit-2
          5 months ago

          Nope, personal opinion. It makes sense to me that for-profit prison systems would lobby to make homelessness a crime, to gather more workers, and to get more money from the government. I don’t have a source that says “Yes, this is the reason why.” but you can follow the money and make your own opinions from there.

          • spikespaz
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            5
            ·
            5 months ago

            Thank you (sincerely) for going half-way. I did not know that prisons make money.

            • halyk.the.red@lemmy.ml
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              4
              ·
              5 months ago

              Of course, I don’t see why you’re getting downvoted so hard. I think that asking people to back things up with sources should be standard practice.

              In this case, I don’t have concrete proof, but I let you know that it’s an opinion influenced by certain facts, like private prisons generating profits and them using lobbists to further their interests.

              Some people, however, make wild claims or assumptions that they’re pushing as pure facts, but can’t produce any kind of verifiable source.

              Some people are saying they don’t want to do your homework for you, and just to google it. To be fair, that’s all I did to get those links. But their thinking is backwards. The one who makes the claim has the burden of proof, not everyone else.

              If someone makes a claim, but can’t support it at all, it can be disregarded. But if someone makes a claim, and provides proof, and someone else is able to provide proof contrary to that point, now we have a debate. More proof and evidence will be required to see who is correct.

              Otherwise we end up with people just firing off unverified claims, backed up with ad hominem and defended with strawmen and slippery slopes.

              So keep asking people for proof and sources, more people need to be checked on their shit.

          • glitchdx@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            9
            arrow-down
            3
            ·
            5 months ago

            You’re getting downvoted, but you’re absolutely right. The only valid argument against your comment is that you’re being a bit of an ass, but even that doesn’t make you wrong. If a person can’t handle a tiny bit of assholery, then they shouldn’t be on the internet.

              • glitchdx@lemmy.world
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                6
                ·
                5 months ago

                I didn’t know what sealioning is, so I looked it up on urban dictionary.

                https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Sealioning

                A subtle form of trolling involving “bad-faith” questions. You disingenuously frame your conversation as a sincere request to be enlightened, placing the burden of educating you entirely on the other party. If your bait is successful, the other party may engage, painstakingly laying out their logic and evidence in the false hope of helping someone learn. In fact you are attempting to harass or waste the time of the other party, and have no intention of truly entertaining their point of view. Instead, you react to each piece of information by misinterpreting it or requesting further clarification, ad nauseum. The name “sea-lioning” comes from a Wondermark comic strip.

                I think the term is silly and there should be a better one for this concept, but lacking a better one I guess this will do. I’m sharing my learning so that others may learn from my experience.

                also, now I fucking hate sealions, and I’m not happy about it. They used to be fucking cute.

              • spikespaz
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                4
                ·
                5 months ago

                I’m asking for a source that prisons rake on billions, you assholes. I did not know that, and thought that prisons were a net loss.

    • Sheldybear@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      13
      ·
      5 months ago

      In the city where I grew up in Canada, it was illegal to sleep on the streets. The punishment was a single night in a holding cell with no record.

      This way, on cold nights, police would forcibly give people a warm meal and a place to sleep - there was a real danger of those folks freezing. The system worked most of the time, but if course, it really inconvenienced the purple who just want to be left alone.

        • Sheldybear@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          1
          ·
          5 months ago

          There were shelters throughout the city, but many chose not to go or marry have been in the wrong part of town. This way, police could forcibly take you away from the dangerous cold even against your wishes.

          It was a problem with a particular homeless family that lived under a bridge, they fought to stay in their camp and it created a big discussion surrounding the issue

  • henfredemars@infosec.pub
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    25
    arrow-down
    1
    ·
    5 months ago

    It’s really sad that a man, a born citizen, may not have the right to sleep on the literal fucking ground when he has nowhere else to go. These rich people decide he’s a criminal.

  • nifty@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    21
    arrow-down
    2
    ·
    5 months ago

    Lack of sleep can lead to psychosis and other mental issues. Preventing people from sleeping in some manner is just inviting unintentional consequences. More muggings, stabbings, rapes, looting or something else?

    People being homeless is a failure of society, not an individual.

    • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      9
      arrow-down
      2
      ·
      edit-2
      5 months ago

      Preventing people from sleeping in some manner is just inviting unintentional consequences.

      I don’t think the consequences are unintentional. Torturing a homeless person by continuously harassing them for trying to get sleep, then recording them lashing out at a city worker or police officer after they’ve snapped, produces a set of video content that can be spread across the internet and used as kindling to turn the housed public against the homeless.

      In the same way Project Veritas existed to harass and extort voting rights activists and health care centers, these laws and the associated anti-homeless activist base are going to be used to justify mass round-ups, imprisonments, and police executions of homeless people.

      This is real actual fascism in practice.

      People being homeless is a failure of society, not an individual.

      “If You Born Poor,It is not your mistake, but if you die poor,it is your mistake”

      ― Bill Gates Sr., Showing Up for Life: Thoughts on the Gifts of a Lifetime

      Should be noted that Gates Jr was born into a family of millionaires, with a mother who sat on the First Interstate Bank of Washington’s Board of Directors and a father who was a founding member of the law firm PGE. If you want to talk about individuals who might be responsible for homelessness, these two are a good place to start. They’ve been “philanthropists” for most of their adult lives and commanded billions of dollars in charitable donations. But the their tenure in these non-profits and committees have yielded rising poverty, declining standards of living, and enormous new personal debts.

      The folks who have horded the lion’s share of the national wealth firmly believe that they aren’t responsible for the consequential inequity and bankruptcy that their greed has produced.

      • nifty@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        3
        ·
        5 months ago

        I think the lack of empathy and compassion for homeless people comes from the puritanical roots of America where failure in some aspect of life was related to moral or character failure.

        So again, it’s important to point out that the fact some people fall through the cracks means there are deficiencies in the social fabric which disallow optimal self determination for all individuals in that society. No one dreams of growing up to be a homeless person as a child.

        America is the one country in the world which has the resources to pull off market socialism correctly. But many progressive ideals are off the table because of rich or billionaire class.

        We should stop hating each other and just hate on the rich for robbing us of a healthy and well functioning society

  • gorgori@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    15
    ·
    5 months ago

    All recent stupid SC stuff is because of 6-3 votes. These old fucks are seated for life.

  • some_designer_dude@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    13
    ·
    5 months ago

    “When tyranny becomes law, resistance becomes duty.” — Thomas Jefferson

    When the government oversteps its authority and becomes tyrannical, then the governed have a responsibility to overthrow that government to reestablish the rights of the people to be free and only be governed by consent.

  • chicken@lemmy.dbzer0.com
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    13
    ·
    5 months ago

    Cities banning homeless people from sleeping outside while failing to give them any alternative is bad, but I think the constitutional prohibition on cruel and unusual punishment is a poor protection against that. This is the sort of thing we need actual laws passed to deal with.

    • notanaltaccount@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      9
      ·
      edit-2
      5 months ago

      But it is actually cruel to create a system that deprives people of sleep, which is something they need, and sleep deprivation has been used as a form of torture.

  • FlashMobOfOne@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    14
    arrow-down
    4
    ·
    5 months ago

    I mean, 99% of voters pick capitalists every single time, and then clutch their pearls when capitalist things happen.

    On the plus side, it’s still possible to do good things on the local level. (For now.)