This operation has the potential to better Ukraine’s strategic position greatly. Ukraine winning means the dying of civilians stops. Ukraine giving up would not have the same result.
Did ww2 stop when Germany conquered Czechoslovakia? - No.
Did ww2 stop when Germany conquered Poland? - No.
Did ww2 stop when Germany conquered the Netherlands? - No.
Did ww2 stop when Germany conquered Denmark? - No.
would ukraine winning mean civilians stop dying in the eastern oblasts where the coup regime have been murdering civilians and bombing and shelling them since 2014?
Ukraine winning means the dying of civilians stops. Ukraine giving up would not have the same result.
Ukraine winning, Ukraine giving up, Ukraine making a peace deal with Russia, Russia winning - all those options will mean the dying of civilians stops.
The only option where people will continue to die is the option you (probably) support - continuing the war.
Russia winning means, the dying will continue in the suppression of their new subjects and in future invasions since this one would have been successful in the end.
How many people have died from “supression” (whatever it means in this context) in the Crimea, that has been occupied for 10 years now?
And the next question - how come this number (is it 0 or more?) is less then the number of civilians (some of whom be Ukrainians or ex-Ukrainians) that died from Ukrainian shelling of Crimea?
Do you think people should have a choice of dying in this, very real, war, or in some hypothetical could-happen war in the future?
You lie, moskals have been observed to continue stealing, raping, killing and ethnic cleansing long after any hostilities ceased in many armed conflicts before. Their behaviour in Bucha and elsewhere proves they haven’t changed one bit.
You support who fighting back against the aggressor?
People who are now trapped in the biggest mass prison in the world? People who are trying to escape this prison by any means, including through the occupied territories, mountains and rivers? People who are afraid to leave homes and go to grocery shops, because any day they might be kidnapped by “recruitment officers” and forcefully sent to die?
You are not supporting us, you are killing us, together with Russia.
But it seems to me that many many Ukranian citizens are actively fighting to ensure their survival and the survival of their nation, so by your own logic it should exist. If you don’t want to fight, that’s fine. Don’t fight. There should be no duty to fight, but if you love your country, and want your way of life to continue, you should fight against the invading forces who want to destroy your country and way of life.
But it seems to me that many many Ukranian citizens are actively fighting to ensure their survival and the survival of their nation
You have outdated info. It might have been somewhat correct 2 years ago, when there were some volunteers. Now - it’s pure propaganda spread by Zelensky and parroted by the western media. Now, the only thing people do “actively” is trying to avoid being kidnapped on the streets or trying to flee the mass prison that is Ukraine, some dying in the rivers/mountains trying to do so.
And even those who fight - they don’t fight for their survival, not even for the survival of the state (although I guess in some sense you can say that), just for some peace of land, which the state wants to control.
If you don’t want to fight, that’s fine. Don’t fight.
Oh really? Thank god I have a choice. Oh right, I don’t - Zelensky’s regime will happily kidnap me, my family and my friends and send everyone to die at the first opportunity they get (although with me it will be harder, because I escaped Ukraine before the war started).
There should be no duty to fight
Indeed, I’m glad that we can at least agree on this.
If only you also stopped supporting those who force this “duty” on others…
but if you love your country
How can I love a country that wants me dead?
and want your way of life to continue, you should fight against the invading forces who want to destroy your country and way of life.
You are (most likely) looking at this from a perspective of a westerner, who has never been in Ukraine and/or Russia. If you live in USA, EU, or basically any other “first world country” - I can see why you would fight Russia to “keep your way of life”. Look at any metric you want (GDP, HDI, corruption, journalist freedom, amount of wooden toilets in the countryside) and you will see that both countries are the same shithole give or take. Average Joe wouldn’t even notice his government has changed.
The deleted comment said that I’m lying. By definition it means the author thinks that I’ve said something that is not true, so it can be disproved (or at least one can provide an argument why it’s likely not to be true).
you’ve offered an idiotic opinion
Is there any reason that it is idiotic, other than not being aligned with western propaganda?
The West offered Zelensky a way out and to give up the moment the war started. He and his country refused and asked for weapons to defend themselves against a tyrant that will never stop. How exactly did the west force Ukraine to fight?
The West offered Zelwnsky a way out and to give up the moment the war started.
What? The west (and especially Boris Johnson) encouraged Zelensky to fight and encouraged him to drop the peace proposal (which included Russia going back to pre-2022 invasion borders!).
He and his country refused
Just “He”.
How exactly did the west force Ukraine to fight?
The west supports Zelensky’s regime, which kidnaps people on the streets and sends them to die.
Zelensky could have fled. He refused. Ukrainians could have surrendered, they refused surprising everyone. Putin will never stop unless he is stopped. To support Ukraine surrendering is to support many many more Ukrainian deaths in the future.
No. We don’t have a choice. We cannot even choose our president, much less choosing to end the war. We cannot speak out against our government (except anonymously like I do). People cannot even fucking leave their houses without fear of being kidnapped.
Then go to Russia, I’m sure they’d be more than willing to send you to the front to kill your fellow Ukrainian brothers and sisters, and it’ll get you out of the “prison” that is supposedly Ukraine. 🙄
Wtf is the point of your comment chain? I’ve seen and heard no claims that Ukraine is kidnapping people off the street to be sent to the front, outside of Russian owned state media. The same media that hides and covers up the fact that Russia is doing exactly what you’re describing to its own citizens.
Ukraine was invaded, and the country chose to defend itself as opposed to roll over and take Putin’s boot on their throat. The invasion was begun under a completely fabricated claim about historical Russian boundaries. Zelensky and Ukraine have, to me, been nothing but up front about their motives, their rationale, and pride they have for their country.
I’m sure they’d be ashamed to know you think so little of your brother and sister Ukrainians, but then again, it sure sounds like you’d rather have a Russian boot on your neck than a Ukrainian uniform on your shoulders. Cowardly, and pathetic. I wouldn’t spit in your direction, it’d be an insult to the spit.
I fucking hate them…
Almost the entire Lemmy (with an exception of a few .ml and other instances) is telling me how I and my compatriots are happily dying for our glorious master Zelensky, while in reality we have to hide and/or flee, because we just want to live…
I don’t know if they are truly evil and sadistic or just brainwashed by propaganda… What the fuck did we do to them to deserve this treatment??..
Anyway, just wanted to say thanks to those who don’t support this sadistic bullshit…
The prick is clearly an ex-american drone operator who thinks you should take pride in dying for some douchebag upper class ghoul like biden, zelensky or whatever genocider they stan currently.
Dont worry about it, they probably have various stages of PTSD from all the kids they blew up during the gulf wars and will either kill themselves or there famalies within the next 10 years.
If I were in Ukraine, I’d be wishing for opportunity to go to Russia, because it’s one of the few ways to escape it… Thankfully I’ve left before the war started, so I don’t need to.
get you out of the “prison” that is supposedly Ukraine. 🙄
I’ve seen and heard no claims that Ukraine is kidnapping people off the street to be sent to the front, outside of Russian owned state media.
Well, exactly so that you have a chance to see it, and stop thinking of yourself as a good guy who is helping Ukrainians while in reality you are helping to murder us.
The same media that hides and covers up the fact that Russia is doing exactly what you’re describing to its own citizens.
Well, I never claimed that Russia is the good guy here, but they are not doing exactly the same. They have conscription, but they don’t fucking kidnap people from the streets (or at least on a way smaller scale…) and they don’t turn their country into a mass prison that you can’t leave.
and the country chose to defend itself
Zelensky’s regime decided to turn country into a mass-prison and kidnap people and send them to die. It is not “country choosing to defend itself”.
I’m sure they’d be ashamed to know you think so little of your brother and sister Ukrainians
My Ukrainian “brothers” either already escaped Ukraine, or are trying to, or just trying to survive there. The “sisters” left a long time ago.
it sure sounds like you’d rather have a Russian boot on your neck
What “Russian boot”? I might have missed what happened to people in Crimea, living under “Russian boot” for 10 years now… How many have died or been repressed? From Russia’s hand I mean, not from Ukrainian shelling of Crimea…
But I mean yeah, obviously I’d prefer living under Russian boot than under Ukrainian boot, with Russian boot at least I’d not fear being kidnapped on the street and sent to die, and being able to freely leave a country sounds nice as well…
If I were in Ukraine, I’d be wishing for opportunity to go to Russia, because it’s one of the few ways to escape it… Thankfully I’ve left before the war started, so I don’t need to.
So again, pathetic and a coward, assuming you’re from Ukraine at all, Comrade. 🙄
Huh, a country being invaded needs men to fight, who would’ve fucking thought. So what’s your solution? End the war and let Russia have their way? Makes sense, it doesn’t affect you in the slightest as a coward who fled his homeland and now comes online to trash it and defend the invaders.
Pathetic coward.
Well, exactly so that you have a chance to see it, and stop thinking of yourself as a good guy who is helping Ukrainians while in reality you are helping to murder us.
Right, so if the West stopped supplying arms to Ukraine to defend themselves against an unlawful aggressor, Russia will immediately stop the invasion?
Tell me, is that why Ukraine’s military chooses to bomb and seek out strategic resources for their attacks, while Russia bombs apartment buildings and city centers? Yep, must be that pesky western influence that wants to check notes stop the authoritarian creep of Russia as they attempt to reclaim their Soviet satellite states.
You’re right, the West is to blame for Russia invading another country, raping, and slaughtering its people. I’m sure the people being killed and injured in Russia’s bombing attacks really wish the Russians would just take over already and turn them into second-class citizens, at fucking best.
Pathetic coward.
Well, I never claimed that Russia is the good guy here, but they are not doing exactly the same.
No, you are, because if you weren’t, you wouldn’t be defending Russia at all in any of this, because they are 100% in the wrong, from start to finish. And yes, they are doing exactly the same thing. Russia has pulled people out of their prisons and sent them to the front lines, so do they not count as people to you, because they’re prisoners?
Russia has also been sending captured Ukrainian troops to the front lines, along with kidnapping their own men off the streets and sending them into battle with few supplies, if any. Like, are you fucking dense, man? Eyes wide shut kind of thing?
Pathetic coward.
Zelensky’s regime decided to turn country into a mass-prison and kidnap people and send them to die. It is not “country choosing to defend itself”.
Zelensky was elected by the Ukrainian people, it’s not a fucking regime. And he went to war with the backing of his people. I’m sorry Ukraine was the first target Russia had in their quest to reclaim the glory that was the Soviet Union 🙄 But they are, and they could have chosen to bend the knee to Russia, or rightfully, defend themselves.
They, the people of Ukraine, chose to defend themselves, so fuck right off with this “Zelensky evil dictator” bullshit. He’s not, he’s just fucking not. If the people of Ukraine didn’t want to defend their homeland, the troops would just surrender instead of fighting back, and they’re fucking not.
So fuck right off, you pathetic coward, and I feel sorry for whatever country your cowardly ass ended up in. Hope they’re never invaded, we’ll all know the first person will be that starts sucking his invaders cocks down to the balls.
Cede to Russian demands on a sovereign nation they have hostily invaded.
Russia was “prepared to end the war if we agreed to,—as Finland once did,—neutrality, and committed that we would not join NATO.” He importantly adds that the NATO promise was the “key point” for Russia and that “Everything else was simply rhetoric and political ‘seasoning’.”
Your source refutes your bullshit “Western pressure” argument, Russian pressure was to literally invade and try to use Ukrainian territory to leverage against Ukraine.
Arakhamiya is the third well placed official to make the claim that Russia’s primary reason for invading Ukraine was to stop NATO expansion east to its borders and, particularly, Ukraine’s NATO aspirations.
Your source essentially ignores that the war could have “stopped” before it started off Russia didn’t choose to invade a sovereign nation specifically to spite NATO. But no, you’re right I’m sure if they just stop fighting and roll over Russia certainly won’t invade again and pull the same shit again.
Your idealism or stupidity is almost admirably idiotic.
Your source refutes your bullshit “Western pressure” argument, Russian pressure was to literally invade and try to use Ukrainian territory to leverage against Ukraine.
Quote needed :)
I’ve said that the west encouraged Zelensky to fight, and the part you’ve linked doesn’t refute it.
if they just stop fighting
“They” can fight all they want, till the last person standing if they want. They are forcing other people to fight for them though.
Congratulations to the “good guys”, you sacrificed thousands of Ukrainians but now you have funny memes about Kursk, so it was definitely worth it.
Fuck the imperialist russian state. They had an invasion coming the moment they invaded and annexed crimea.
Okay, you hate Russia.
But why do you hate Ukrainians? Why do we have to die for your grudge with Russia?
This operation has the potential to better Ukraine’s strategic position greatly. Ukraine winning means the dying of civilians stops. Ukraine giving up would not have the same result.
Did ww2 stop when Germany conquered Czechoslovakia? - No.
Did ww2 stop when Germany conquered Poland? - No.
Did ww2 stop when Germany conquered the Netherlands? - No.
Did ww2 stop when Germany conquered Denmark? - No.
Did ww2 stop when Germany conquered France? - No.
Did ww2 stop when Germany conquered Norway? - No.
Ww2 ended, when Nazi Germany was defeated.
would ukraine winning mean civilians stop dying in the eastern oblasts where the coup regime have been murdering civilians and bombing and shelling them since 2014?
Ukraine winning, Ukraine giving up, Ukraine making a peace deal with Russia, Russia winning - all those options will mean the dying of civilians stops.
The only option where people will continue to die is the option you (probably) support - continuing the war.
That is not my perception.
Russia winning means, the dying will continue in the suppression of their new subjects and in future invasions since this one would have been successful in the end.
How many people have died from “supression” (whatever it means in this context) in the Crimea, that has been occupied for 10 years now?
And the next question - how come this number (is it 0 or more?) is less then the number of civilians (some of whom be Ukrainians or ex-Ukrainians) that died from Ukrainian shelling of Crimea?
Do you think people should have a choice of dying in this, very real, war, or in some hypothetical could-happen war in the future?
Bro people died defending it and the rest fled so they weren’t raped or sledgehammered to death.
What’s your solution dipshit.
Are we still talking about Crimea? Because what you are saying is completely false…
Please link some proofs to what you’re saying.
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You lie, moskals have been observed to continue stealing, raping, killing and ethnic cleansing long after any hostilities ceased in many armed conflicts before. Their behaviour in Bucha and elsewhere proves they haven’t changed one bit.
Oh wow we got some “have to blow off the dust it is so old” racism here
I’m not the one who invaded Ukraine, but i support them fighting back against the aggressor.
would you rather just roll over and let russia take over?
You support who fighting back against the aggressor?
People who are now trapped in the biggest mass prison in the world? People who are trying to escape this prison by any means, including through the occupied territories, mountains and rivers? People who are afraid to leave homes and go to grocery shops, because any day they might be kidnapped by “recruitment officers” and forcefully sent to die?
You are not supporting us, you are killing us, together with Russia.
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No, nobody has a duty to die for politicians. If people don’t want to protect their “nation” then it probably shouldn’t exist.
No, you are a coward for not joining the foreign legion and fighting your battles, and instead forcing other people to do your bidding.
But it seems to me that many many Ukranian citizens are actively fighting to ensure their survival and the survival of their nation, so by your own logic it should exist. If you don’t want to fight, that’s fine. Don’t fight. There should be no duty to fight, but if you love your country, and want your way of life to continue, you should fight against the invading forces who want to destroy your country and way of life.
You have outdated info. It might have been somewhat correct 2 years ago, when there were some volunteers. Now - it’s pure propaganda spread by Zelensky and parroted by the western media. Now, the only thing people do “actively” is trying to avoid being kidnapped on the streets or trying to flee the mass prison that is Ukraine, some dying in the rivers/mountains trying to do so.
And even those who fight - they don’t fight for their survival, not even for the survival of the state (although I guess in some sense you can say that), just for some peace of land, which the state wants to control.
Oh really? Thank god I have a choice. Oh right, I don’t - Zelensky’s regime will happily kidnap me, my family and my friends and send everyone to die at the first opportunity they get (although with me it will be harder, because I escaped Ukraine before the war started).
Indeed, I’m glad that we can at least agree on this.
If only you also stopped supporting those who force this “duty” on others…
How can I love a country that wants me dead?
You are (most likely) looking at this from a perspective of a westerner, who has never been in Ukraine and/or Russia. If you live in USA, EU, or basically any other “first world country” - I can see why you would fight Russia to “keep your way of life”. Look at any metric you want (GDP, HDI, corruption, journalist freedom, amount of wooden toilets in the countryside) and you will see that both countries are the same shithole give or take. Average Joe wouldn’t even notice his government has changed.
Removed by mod
Ah yes, another lemmy.world account accusing me of spreading lies and yet not disproving any of them…
You haven’t said anything to disprove, you’ve offered an idiotic opinion not a fact or anything you even claim to be a fact.
The deleted comment said that I’m lying. By definition it means the author thinks that I’ve said something that is not true, so it can be disproved (or at least one can provide an argument why it’s likely not to be true).
Is there any reason that it is idiotic, other than not being aligned with western propaganda?
They’re implying you’re lying to yourself.
You keep saying everything like you have a solution but won’t say what it is.
It’s idiotic because no bully is going to stop bullying you because you stop fighting back especially when they want something you have.
Your fixing platitudes and dipshit idealism aren’t helpful.
About what?
Already told you what the solution is.
The bully that bullies people in Ukraine is Zelensky though.
deleted by creator
Yep, that was dumb.
It’s early morning for me and I’ve misunderstood your comment but deleted my reply a moment after sending it, cut me some slack :)
The only one killing Ukrainians is Russia pig
The West offered Zelensky a way out and to give up the moment the war started. He and his country refused and asked for weapons to defend themselves against a tyrant that will never stop. How exactly did the west force Ukraine to fight?
What? The west (and especially Boris Johnson) encouraged Zelensky to fight and encouraged him to drop the peace proposal (which included Russia going back to pre-2022 invasion borders!).
Just “He”.
The west supports Zelensky’s regime, which kidnaps people on the streets and sends them to die.
Zelensky could have fled. He refused. Ukrainians could have surrendered, they refused surprising everyone. Putin will never stop unless he is stopped. To support Ukraine surrendering is to support many many more Ukrainian deaths in the future.
No. We don’t have a choice. We cannot even choose our president, much less choosing to end the war. We cannot speak out against our government (except anonymously like I do). People cannot even fucking leave their houses without fear of being kidnapped.
Then go to Russia, I’m sure they’d be more than willing to send you to the front to kill your fellow Ukrainian brothers and sisters, and it’ll get you out of the “prison” that is supposedly Ukraine. 🙄
Wtf is the point of your comment chain? I’ve seen and heard no claims that Ukraine is kidnapping people off the street to be sent to the front, outside of Russian owned state media. The same media that hides and covers up the fact that Russia is doing exactly what you’re describing to its own citizens.
Ukraine was invaded, and the country chose to defend itself as opposed to roll over and take Putin’s boot on their throat. The invasion was begun under a completely fabricated claim about historical Russian boundaries. Zelensky and Ukraine have, to me, been nothing but up front about their motives, their rationale, and pride they have for their country.
I’m sure they’d be ashamed to know you think so little of your brother and sister Ukrainians, but then again, it sure sounds like you’d rather have a Russian boot on your neck than a Ukrainian uniform on your shoulders. Cowardly, and pathetic. I wouldn’t spit in your direction, it’d be an insult to the spit.
lemmy worlds least deranged person telling an actual ukranian they should be happy to die for zelensky lmao
I fucking hate them…
Almost the entire Lemmy (with an exception of a few .ml and other instances) is telling me how I and my compatriots are happily dying for our glorious master Zelensky, while in reality we have to hide and/or flee, because we just want to live…
I don’t know if they are truly evil and sadistic or just brainwashed by propaganda… What the fuck did we do to them to deserve this treatment??..
Anyway, just wanted to say thanks to those who don’t support this sadistic bullshit…
The prick is clearly an ex-american drone operator who thinks you should take pride in dying for some douchebag upper class ghoul like biden, zelensky or whatever genocider they stan currently.
Dont worry about it, they probably have various stages of PTSD from all the kids they blew up during the gulf wars and will either kill themselves or there famalies within the next 10 years.
If I were in Ukraine, I’d be wishing for opportunity to go to Russia, because it’s one of the few ways to escape it… Thankfully I’ve left before the war started, so I don’t need to.
Supposedly?? What the hell do you mean by that? https://theconversation.com/why-banning-men-from-leaving-ukraine-violates-their-human-rights-178411
And in the next sentence you say:
Well, exactly so that you have a chance to see it, and stop thinking of yourself as a good guy who is helping Ukrainians while in reality you are helping to murder us.
Here is an archive with tons of videos of kidnapping people: https://uadraftmuseum.ch/
And inb4 you claim that this is Russian propaganda, here are links to other websites just with less content:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/other/ukraine-urgently-needs-soldiers-but-some-men-are-desperate-not-to-fight/ar-BB1naQUE
https://www.rferl.org/a/ukraine-russia-war-recruitment/32310040.html
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-66542065
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/aug/15/bribes-and-hiding-at-home-the-ukrainian-men-trying-to-avoid-conscription
Well, I never claimed that Russia is the good guy here, but they are not doing exactly the same. They have conscription, but they don’t fucking kidnap people from the streets (or at least on a way smaller scale…) and they don’t turn their country into a mass prison that you can’t leave.
Zelensky’s regime decided to turn country into a mass-prison and kidnap people and send them to die. It is not “country choosing to defend itself”.
My Ukrainian “brothers” either already escaped Ukraine, or are trying to, or just trying to survive there. The “sisters” left a long time ago.
What “Russian boot”? I might have missed what happened to people in Crimea, living under “Russian boot” for 10 years now… How many have died or been repressed? From Russia’s hand I mean, not from Ukrainian shelling of Crimea…
But I mean yeah, obviously I’d prefer living under Russian boot than under Ukrainian boot, with Russian boot at least I’d not fear being kidnapped on the street and sent to die, and being able to freely leave a country sounds nice as well…
So again, pathetic and a coward, assuming you’re from Ukraine at all, Comrade. 🙄
Huh, a country being invaded needs men to fight, who would’ve fucking thought. So what’s your solution? End the war and let Russia have their way? Makes sense, it doesn’t affect you in the slightest as a coward who fled his homeland and now comes online to trash it and defend the invaders.
Pathetic coward.
Right, so if the West stopped supplying arms to Ukraine to defend themselves against an unlawful aggressor, Russia will immediately stop the invasion?
Tell me, is that why Ukraine’s military chooses to bomb and seek out strategic resources for their attacks, while Russia bombs apartment buildings and city centers? Yep, must be that pesky western influence that wants to check notes stop the authoritarian creep of Russia as they attempt to reclaim their Soviet satellite states.
You’re right, the West is to blame for Russia invading another country, raping, and slaughtering its people. I’m sure the people being killed and injured in Russia’s bombing attacks really wish the Russians would just take over already and turn them into second-class citizens, at fucking best.
Pathetic coward.
No, you are, because if you weren’t, you wouldn’t be defending Russia at all in any of this, because they are 100% in the wrong, from start to finish. And yes, they are doing exactly the same thing. Russia has pulled people out of their prisons and sent them to the front lines, so do they not count as people to you, because they’re prisoners?
Russia has also been sending captured Ukrainian troops to the front lines, along with kidnapping their own men off the streets and sending them into battle with few supplies, if any. Like, are you fucking dense, man? Eyes wide shut kind of thing?
Pathetic coward.
Zelensky was elected by the Ukrainian people, it’s not a fucking regime. And he went to war with the backing of his people. I’m sorry Ukraine was the first target Russia had in their quest to reclaim the glory that was the Soviet Union 🙄 But they are, and they could have chosen to bend the knee to Russia, or rightfully, defend themselves.
They, the people of Ukraine, chose to defend themselves, so fuck right off with this “Zelensky evil dictator” bullshit. He’s not, he’s just fucking not. If the people of Ukraine didn’t want to defend their homeland, the troops would just surrender instead of fighting back, and they’re fucking not.
So fuck right off, you pathetic coward, and I feel sorry for whatever country your cowardly ass ended up in. Hope they’re never invaded, we’ll all know the first person will be that starts sucking his invaders cocks down to the balls.
Oh well, writing more responses to you wouldn’t make sense, clearly you’re only here for personal attacks :/
I think he didn’t get it, he need to be reminded a few more times of how much pathetic and coward he is
I would love to see the source on that.
Sure! :)
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peace_negotiations_in_the_Russian_invasion_of_Ukraine
https://libertarianinstitute.org/articles/bad-advice-ukraine-then-and-now/
Neither of those say Russia was willing to agree to pre 2022 borders.
Try again.
It quite literally says that (I assume its “willing” instead of “winning”), also linking to a source… Quote:
Cede to Russian demands on a sovereign nation they have hostily invaded.
Your source refutes your bullshit “Western pressure” argument, Russian pressure was to literally invade and try to use Ukrainian territory to leverage against Ukraine.
Your source essentially ignores that the war could have “stopped” before it started off Russia didn’t choose to invade a sovereign nation specifically to spite NATO. But no, you’re right I’m sure if they just stop fighting and roll over Russia certainly won’t invade again and pull the same shit again.
Your idealism or stupidity is almost admirably idiotic.
Quote needed :)
I’ve said that the west encouraged Zelensky to fight, and the part you’ve linked doesn’t refute it.
“They” can fight all they want, till the last person standing if they want. They are forcing other people to fight for them though.
is this what the lastest stage of a copium addiction looks like?
Zelensky wasn’t offered a ride out of Ukraine? Is that what RT tells you?
Holy shit. We’re back to this? Do you also think that the ghost of Kiev will lead the Ukranazis to victory?