idk where to really put this (might turn into a blog post later or something). it’s what you might call a “hot take”, certainly a heterodox one to some parts of the broader #fediverse community. this is in response to recent discussion on “what do you want to see from AP/AS2 specs” (in context of wg rechartering) mostly devolving into people complaining about JSON-LD and extensibility, some even about namespacing in general (there was a suggestion to use UUID vocab terms. i’m not joking)

1/?

  • infinite love ⴳ@mastodon.socialOP
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    1
    ·
    2 months ago

    to build the #fediverse as its own “social networking protocol” then seemingly requires that we instead go with the closed-world assumption, contrary to the #Web

    it requires ahead-of-time communication and coordination, where implementers need to be willing and available to talk to any other implementer, and this load grows with every new implementer.

    it requires you to be aware of other extensions, present and future, because your extension might conflict with someone else’s extension.

    10/?

    • infinite love ⴳ@mastodon.socialOP
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      1
      ·
      2 months ago

      the way extensibility works in a closed-world #fediverse is that “every implementer talks to every other implementer”. or maybe there is a central registry of extensions that everyone submits to their authority, as stewards of the “protocol” that is used to build the “network”. this trades out the n:n relation between implementers and other implementers, for an n:1 relation between implementers and the central registry.

      the way extensibility works in an open-world #Web is you just do it.

      11/?

      • infinite love ⴳ@mastodon.socialOP
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        1
        ·
        2 months ago

        the challenge in closed-world systems is how to scale communication and coordination as the number of implementers grows. without a central authority, it almost inevitably leads to power coalescing in the hands of the few most popular or largest implementations, who become the “de facto” standard and get to mostly do what they want, and everyone else mostly has to follow if they want to be compatible.

        sound familiar? it should, because this is the model that the #fediverse follows today.

        12/?

        • infinite love ⴳ@mastodon.socialOP
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          1
          ·
          2 months ago

          indeed, the #fediverse is more closed-world than open-world. you see this in the so-called “rejection” of json-ld among presumably the majority of fedi implementations. because for the most part, AS2 lets you ignore json-ld. it only matters for extensibility, and (specific criticisms of json-ld aside) json-ld also mostly allows you to ignore it.

          so why do people still complain about it?

          well, there is the concept of “context” in json-ld, which represents shared understanding.

          13/?

          • infinite love ⴳ@mastodon.socialOP
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            1
            ·
            2 months ago

            when i say “john knows sally”, there are several ambiguities. we can solve ambiguities by disambiguating. one way to disambiguate is to be explicit about what any term or symbol means. one way to be explicit is to use uniform identifiers.

            in particular, http/https uris have some convenient properties

            • they have authority, so you can qualify an id based on who’s assigning it.
            • you can use the authority component as a namespace
            • you can fetch the uri and it might return something useful

            14/?

            • infinite love ⴳ@mastodon.socialOP
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              1
              ·
              2 months ago

              so let’s say john is example.com/john and sally is example.com/sally

              what do we use for “knows”?

              well, there are multiple senses of the word “knows”:

              1. is aware of the existence of
              2. is familiar with
              3. is having sexual intercourse with

              we mean definition 1. so we might use example.com/vocab/knows/1

              now we have the statement:

              <example.com/john> <example.com/vocab/knows/1> <example.com/sally>

              this is unambiguous, but we can go one step further: we can provide definitions at the uri

              15/?

              • infinite love ⴳ@mastodon.socialOP
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                1
                ·
                2 months ago

                say some random person sees the statement above. they don’t know who john or sally are, and they don’t know what “knows” means in this context.

                well, if we do a little work upfront, they actually can know what all of these terms mean, without ever asking us directly

                we put a resource on example.com for each of these terms, and each resource describes the subject of that identifier – it is a “resource descriptor”.

                the resource for knows/1 can define itself explicitly with a schema

                16/?

                • infinite love ⴳ@mastodon.socialOP
                  link
                  fedilink
                  arrow-up
                  1
                  ·
                  edit-2
                  2 months ago

                  so at minimum we have the following schema for knows/1

                  - how to represent it in plain text: “knows”
                  - how to define it: “is aware of the existence of”

                  the RDF Schema gives us label and comment, as defined by the RDF Schema.

                  - :label “knows”
                  - :comment “is aware of the existence of”

                  but we need to know what “label” and “comment” mean as well! not to worry, we qualify those terms with the rdfs namespace:

                  - rdfs:label “knows”
                  - rdfs:comment “is aware of the existence of”

                  17/?

                  • infinite love ⴳ@mastodon.socialOP
                    link
                    fedilink
                    arrow-up
                    1
                    ·
                    2 months ago

                    now at this point you’re probably wondering what this has to do with social networking. and on a practical level, if you’re just interested in building a “social networking protocol”, this is mostly all extraneous.

                    the part that implementers have to deal with is the notion of “context” and, more specifically, how json-ld handles it, and even more specifically, what to do when two shorthand terms conflict.

                    remember, the open-world solution is namespacing. what does closed-world do?

                    18/?

      • Darius Kazemi@friend.camp
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        1
        ·
        2 months ago

        @[email protected] Hmmm. In the open web we have a thing called a browser vendor whose job is de facto to act as the choke point where they are the ones who have to be aware of every implementation. Then as devs we get to black box it as “this is what web browsers support”.