If you care about Gaza, do not dump rocket fuel onto a raging fire. Show up and vote against Trump.
No question. Trump tried to start a war in the Middle East by assassinating an Iranian general but was stopped by Covid.
Bernie knocked this message out of the park: https://youtu.be/Vf5MThSniiY
Thanks, I probably wouldn’t have bothered to watch it if you didn’t post it (just due to fatigue basically), and I’m glad I did. He’s a class act, a real rarity among politicians, and our nation really fucked up by keeping him sidelined.
If your moral philosophy is Utilitarianism. A vote for Harris is the obvious choice.
Biden has been absolutely pathetic on this. Disgraceful and waste of resources
Well, now I definitely won’t vote for him!
We can all be thankful for no longer having to that. Hopefully Harris is better but we’ll see; I’m doubtful
Good thing that this is the only issue that’s important and also that Trump isn’t definitely far worse on it.
I mean it’s not like Trump would say something out loud like, “let Israel finish the job in Gaza,” am I right?
https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20240628-trump-let-israel-finish-the-job-in-gaza/
But Russian propaganda said Trump was better for the Middle East!
(/s)
Sure, but they can still do better. People expect them to.
EDIT: I’m not saying people shouldn’t vote for Harris. They should. They have to. But the criticism about her and Biden still supporting Israel the way they do and sending weapons, ammo, vehicles is very much valid. People want them to stop supporting Israel in their unfettered carnage against the Palestinians. We can only hope that when Harris is elected she’s gonna pull a 180 and completely stop. And the only reason she’s not saying she wants to right now is to not lose a substantial amount of votes from zionists. At least that’s what I hope. But in the meantime, the genocide is still happening. People are still being murdered. Soon there won’t be anyone left to defend and it’ll be too late.
EDIT 2: I don’t know why people assume that by simply criticizing Harris on her support for Israel, people are saying not to vote for her. That’s not even the point. Get a grip.
People are extra sensitive about Harris/Israel criticism because of the extensive “don’t vote for genocide!” astroturfing campaigns flooding social media to discourage left voter turnout in swing states. This is going to be a fucking close election and anything that even obliquely discourages left voter engagement is going to get side eye until we’re past the election.
Also, re: Israel:
That’s our Israel foreign policy in a nutshell and we really should do better. Hopefully once the Kissinger fans all die out we will.
Oh boy, I’m high and feeling chatty. Bag of wind incoming:
Progressives do want better, but the moderate faction, who don’t post on Lemmy, is much larger and they think genocide is keen. If all the progressives unimously said we won’t vote for a Democrat that supplies Isreal, it might not have even had an effect on her platform, we’d just get Trump. The moderates have more money and REALLY support genocide.
That said, using the slippery slope of Tea Party all the way to Trump has been an excuse that has now turned the moderate democrats much more conservative. The border is going to be a horror show under her. It’s a complex situation and progressives are a smaller (but growing) group. The best thing to do is keep swelling our numbers and voting. We still have to compromise with our liberal Democrat allies, but they still recognize they’d lose without us, so they are throwing progressives a few more bones every year. We are getting more candidates elected in lower positions, where the power to change really lies.
Going from America today to the good kind of socialist state will be gradual and take generations. We have to play ball while being vocal and voting in big numbers. It has to evolve from capitalism, like we see in many other western wealthy countries. Tankies want it now, with violence to take and violence to hold. Families executed en masse to keep power for which they have no mandate. You’re really gonna wanna get that public support if you don’t want a warlord dictator in charge.
Progressives do want better, but the moderate faction, who don’t post on Lemmy, is much larger and they think genocide is keen. If all the progressives unimously said we won’t vote for a Democrat that supplies Isreal, it might not have even had an effect on her platform, we’d just get Trump. The moderates have more money and REALLY support genocide.
I think the problem with moderates is that they’re not even really aware that the Gaza genocide is happening. Moderate voters are like ostriches, if they’re diligent at ignoring world news none of the bad stuff is really happening or it’s all just alarmism. Never underestimate how astonishingly willfully ignorant American moderates are.
sagacious!
homie’s smoking that PBS Newshour kush. chiefing that FDR four-timer pack. chooming that Tim Russert era Meet the Press dank.
That’s a long ass reply for nothing. I didn’t say not to vote for Harris. I’m not encouraging people to not vote for Harris. I never said that in my original post. I’m just saying that people expect them to do better than just being less worse than Trump on that one point. And I think that’s very valid. Don’t you? I mean is Harris untouchable when it comes to criticism? Can’t we criticize her stance on that one topic even though we want to vote for her?
I wasn’t debating you, I don’t disagree with anything you said. You posted a thought provoking comment and I shared my thoughts.
A’ight. ✌️
FWIW I upvoted your comment above that got so many downvotes cuz your comment (and edits) felt super reasonable to me.
With that said - it’s been pointed out to you that the reason people are sensitive about this is because of the astroturfing going on right now and the extreme harm that will come if enough people are convinced again (like in 2016, myself hoodwinked by that episode) to not participate. We will get the worst outcome (like in 2016).
No one is mad at your point of view, I don’t think. I bet most downvoters share it, actually. But the stakes are too high, the recent campaign to disillusion voters too successful (2016), and the time remaining too short - you need to quit it, now, or you’ll be rightfully seen as an enemy to progress.
Your points are important. There are more important things right now, though. As hideously distasteful as that is, that is the situation we’re in today. It isn’t my fault or yours, but here we are.
Edit to add: there will be lots of room to push on policy in every direction once this election is over (and “settled”, woof). Any president on their first term tends to work hard, eventually, to secure a second. That’s our best hope of the changes we want, to push on the Harris/Walz administration with everything we’ve got, for round two. Shitty, but again, these are the cards in our hand. We don’t get to deal or swap them now, we only get to play our hand. If we fuck this up, we really may not get more decent hands than this for a long time (and incalculable suffering, borne by the most vulnerable, until we get there).
Yeah I understand. This shit stain fascist has to disappear. Anyone not willing to vote for Harris because of that issue are just helping Trump.
It’s my belief that Netanyahu is actually very aware of the influence he’s got on this election and using it against Biden and Harris to destroy their reputation. He knows that with Trump he’d get carte blanche to do whatever he wants. Heck, I’d bet he would use nukes against Iran. It would throw us into such a terrible world conflict. Not to mention the new Nazi like world we’d live in. Trump can’t be allowed to win.
I think you’re right. I think Netanyahu is extremely clear on what he’s doing and what outcomes he wants.
