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Because propaganda works. If propaganda didn’t work, companies would not advertise products and politicians wouldn’t run campaigns. Rich sponsors fund politicians who promise to look after their interests. Well-funded politicians run better campaigns and win.
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Because politicians are, nearly without exception, above middle class, if not outright rich. They won’t act too radically against their own class interests.
The only solution I know comes from ancient Athens. Sortition -> you hold a lottery to draw representatives. A few extremely stupid people will be drawn into parliament, but idiots are far better than sociopaths, and the current system gives undue representation to sociopaths (willing to climb over bodies if that gets them to power). If one then dislikes the idea of a considerable percentage of bumbling fools (as opposed to cunning predators) in parliament, one must feed everyone well, treat all childhood diseases and educate everyone as well as possible. As if their rational decisions were needed tomorrow.
Randomized representatives can still be propagandized, bribed, and have hunger for power.
True.
Hunger for power would exist, but a critical feature that currently exists - the means of returning to power - would be absent.
Bribes would be a concern, so good pay and anti-corruption mechanicms would still be required.
the means of returning to power - would be absent.
Unless the randomized reps decide they like their newfound power, and change the rules to allow them to maintain/extend/return to power.
Bribes would be a concern, so good pay and anti-corruption mechanicms would still be required.
Direct bribes are only part of the problem. Corporations would still do the things they’re doing now, where they bribe politicians with cushy jobs once they leave their government positions. Good pay on the job while at the government doesn’t stop that.
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A lot of people have aspirations of themselves being rich and if they can vote like rich people they participate in the rich aesthetic.
The sooner you realize the vast majority of humans are simply not very intelligent, the more everything starts making sense. And the more depressed you will be.
I have no science behind this (and am therefore a hypocrite) but I’m giving up on the assumption that people think. I suspect that most people feel and make decisions on those feelings.
Thinking happens later, if at all.Humans are animals that navigate life through the lens of emotions with logic being something that we have to work towards - so you may be closer to the truth than you think.
It is a combination of this and the power of propaganda.
When you can control the information that people consume, you can have a huge influence over what they think.
If you can influence the thoughts of a big portion of the populous, you can create control structures. You use these control structures to move people into their emotional decision making more often. The more often you can keep people in their emotional decision mode, the easier you can control what they do.
The thing is, the easiest way to keep people in their emotional thought mode, is to pull the fear and anger levers. Keep people afraid and angry, and you can steer society.The other problem with this is, the people who see through this kind of thing are not the majority.
The people who can see through the techniques, are not always the traditionally “smart”; but higher intelligence is certainly an advantage.This is true. Always has been, always will be. Many Trump voters are already regretting their decision after seeing the early consequences of Trump’s statements. But that won’t be permanent. Many will likely be duped again by another conman using the same tactics.
I need to mention that old school ‘patent medicine’ (ex: snake oil) in the 19th to very early 20th was not destroyed by advancements in actual medicine and education and awareness… it was done by simply banning the patent medicines and forcing others to disclose their ingredients. When buyers of said medicine were aware of the bullshit of old snake oil, they just moved onto another brand of snake oil (which may or may not have been made and sold by the same guy).
If they removed regulations on medicine and legalized many of the old hard drugs we would see a resurgence in patent medicine that caused so many problems in times past. There was actually a reason why people who avoided all medication in the 19th century actually had a longer than average life expectancy.
Half of all people are dumber than average.
Replace ‘average’ by ‘median’ to be correct. The average can be distorted by especially dumb people.
Keep in mind that if you are in a public space, about half the people around you have an IQ below 100.
Because they’ve successfully been conned into thinking that what’s in the best interests of the rich is in their own best interests too.
Because the rich pretend like it’s in peoples interest, people believe them because oh they are rich they must know what they are talking about, and because people are stupid.
If I’m struggling this much now then imagine how much harder it will be when I have to pay higher taxes
🤣 nailed it
Edit: also, me too (@ILikeBoobies)
The majority of people vote with their gut and won’t look deep into what politician A is promising, so long as one of the promises is exactly the thing the person wants. For a considerable number of gamers, it’s dealing with woke culture. Trump is a fervent enemy of “the woke”, but he also promised hefty import tariffs on everything, so consoles can get really damn expensive. But hey, the woke sjw’s are getting owned!!
This piece on Aftermath touches an important point as well, that left leaning content often takes care to not spout random bullshit, while right leaning will just say whatever because haha engagement goes brrrrrrr.
Going off a tangent, the Brazilian right complains that “the poor vote with their bellies”, implying they’ll vote for whoever promises “free money” or “free meals”, usually in the form of govt programs. During election years, the right will try to claim they were the masterminds behind every sort of program meant to help poor people, such as Bolsa Familia, while loudly and constantly complaining about their existence and doing everything in their power to block money outside election years. It’s common to find people who depend(ed) on Bolsa Familia to survive that complain about “freeloaders” that “want to be fed by the government”. A good portion of right-wingers also believe that the govt pays a whole minimum wage to every person in jail, despite this bullshit being debunked several times already.
I think that it depends on the person. I’ve heard of enough people who voted for Donald because they like that he “says it like it is”, or “he’s a businessman”, or because they just want lower taxes. Some people are so exposed to rage-bait social media/news content and are always being told what to be afraid of and they vote emotionally based on that fear. My grandfather votes the way he does because he’s TERRIFIED of immigrants, even legal ones - because all he does is sit and watch fox news. I think most often, people are busy with their lives, paying their bills, taking care of their kids, etc. and don’t have a lot of energy left over for politics. People treat voting like it’s team sports. A ton of people voted for Donald because they thought tariffs were paid by the other country, not American businesses. I don’t exactly blame people, it’s a lot of information and life is probably a lot more relaxed for people that don’t follow it.
https://www.cracked.com/blog/6-reasons-trumps-rise-that-no-one-talks-about
its not about red vs blue states. It’s About The Country Vs. The City
A successful propaganda campaign by the owning class.
And a quote from an anonymous mutual:
many people will unfortunately need to learn this the hard way it seems at the expense of those who take the time to see the writing on the wall those ignorant to their exploitation will seldom listen to those who try to tell them how horribly theyre being fucked “if it were really so bad id notice” theyll say “this isnt so bad” theyll say, standing on the peak of the mountain that is dunning-kruger unknowing all we can do is wait, and watch to find out what what it is that throws them into the valley of unfathomable uncertainty in the meantime we must work for each other, for those who do see how good things could be. maybe then, our greener grass will coax them into giving us a fair listen
This question is actually pretty old. Already ancient Greek / Roman philosophers discussed this.
Google the word ‘anacyclosis’ if you want to learn more. Alternatively here is a video link. I marked the position where the cycle explanation starts. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uqsBx58GxYY&t=371
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Ignorance and gullibility. I fall for misinformation all the time, especially when it confirms my own biases and it takes real effort to maintain a mindset of “yes this sounds true, but is it actually?” It is also terribly inefficient. If someone tells me, when I was a kid, that daddylonglegs spiders are the most poisonous, I am likely going to just go “neat” and now I think that and say it. If you stop and verify EVERYTHING EVER you have no time to do anything in life. This makes the filter of critical thinking…critical.
Also, it isn’t about being stupid (though that helps). Some of the smartest people I know are conspiracy theory nutjobs. They can easily draw parallels between disparate facts, but can’t filter their findings or understand correlation doesn’t equal causation.
Yep. Lost a good and very smart friend to the anti vax conspiracies and maybe others by now.
I’ve also had to really pay attention and tell myself that I live in a liberal bubble and need to balance that bias against what is truth.
Because they’ve been fooled into thinking it will either benefit them, or benefit people they feel “deserve it.”
This is a complex question, but up front first and foremost in any Capitalist country, voting will always benefit the rich, even FDR style Social Democracy came about as concessions to prevent revolution in the context of a decimated working class and a rising USSR.
People, generally, vote along their class interests, but these are handled in a different manner depending on which country you are in. Using the US as an example, the DNC caters to social progressivism, while the GOP caters to social conservativism. On foreign policy, the GOP and DNC are near identical, and when it comes to domestic economic policy, the DNC caters slightly more to urban voters while the GOP caters to rural voters.
This is all, however, in the context of parties that function as businesses that sell policy to Capitalists. Both parties serve Capital, because Capital is what holds real power. It holds power over the media, the state, everything.
The answer to how to fix this is getting workers to organize. When workers organize, they raise their social and class awareness and can accomplish far more than atomized individuals can.
Often when I see someone accusing people of voting against their own interests, it’s pretty clear that the person making the accusation has not taken the time to understand the values others are basing their choice on.
If I could rob a person and be confident that I would never be caught and punished for doing so, am I acting against my own self interest if I chose not to rob them because it goes against my moral code? No, of course not. But based on the way some people talk about voting against ones self interest, you might think I just cheated myself out of free money. Is it possible that a person might “vote against their own interests” because of a misinformed view? of course, but you’ll never understand a person’s motivations by chosing to paint them with broad strokes based on your prejudices instead of getting to know them individually and trying to understand what it is they truly value.The answer is fear. Fear is what they truly value.
Fear is often a motivating factor in a person’s choice. This was equally true of the left and right in this past US presidential election.
I haven’t seen any evidence that fear is a value that most people hold though. The source of their fear is concern over the things they do value.
You just got to get to know the Nazi to understand them?
Oh wait it is more nuanced than that. You gotta get to know the racist to emphasize with them?
Dang it, we got to dig deeper. You have to get to know the misogynist to get them?
Sometimes getting to know someone is not the magical solution people think it is.
It’s like some people love to pretend they don’t know any of these kinds of people
There’s those broad strokes I was talking about. I appreciate you providing an example.
Refusing to empathize and understand how people arrive at their views in favor of this kind of prejudice will never contribute to positive changes.
Yes, the best cure to bigotry is love and compassion. Love and compassion start with empathy. It’s easy to empathize with those that think and act like you do - it can be difficult, but all the more important, to empathize with those that don’t. Refusing to do so only ensures polarization of society and a perpetuation of the cycles of violence that permeate society. This is something that has become all the more clear with the rise of social media and the info bubbles they trap people in.You can spend years turning the heart of a racist and certainly some people have done this successfully.
Meanwhile propaganda has turned out another ten thousand racists in the time it took you to change a couple minds.
To be frank your belief is not completely wrong but it will not solve our current problems.
You hint on the reality that it is our social constructs such as social media that is driving this resurgence of hate.
As a social worker by trade I can say I know a lot about this topic. There is a classic story of people getting swept into the river.
While it is admirable that you want to jump in to save people the real solution is going upstream and stopping people from falling in.
Understanding racist losers will not accomplish what you want. Changing their minds will not either. You have to stop it at the source.
It sounds like we’re largely in agreement. Absolutely, you want to tackle the issue at the source. I don’t see how one hopes to accomplish that without empathy. Understanding those racist ‘losers’ is how you begin to understand how to tackle this at the source.
I agree your belief is admirable, but it is extremely naive if you think it will make a difference on a large scale even if there are millions who believe what you do.
We already had a movement about peace, love, and understanding that was very popular with a huge chunk of the population doing the acts you described in the 1960s.
You have also clearly not spent any amount of time with the kind of people you think you can emphasize with. I lived in rural Idaho for Obama’s years. I couldn’t count the amount of times people joked about hanging or shooting him.
You want to empathize with a racist who wants a man dead just because he is black? I did plenty of this and guess the positive change it made. Yeah, it didn’t matter at all.
The only way is to stop the propaganda. This is the source. Hate radio, Faux News, and now Xshitter feed people with lies using psychological manipulation to twist their minds and hearts.
It takes years, sometimes decades, to deprogram people from this if they are willing to change. They are creating new racist losers at a pace you cannot keep up with. This is the reality we face.
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