How can we evolve and deploy web apps without allowing developers or operators to become a “billionaire in the middle”? There are many ways to try to address this challenge and some involve the tec...

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Joined by XMPP-messengers Cheogram and Monocles, and supported by many contributing experts in the background, we are playfully addressing the no-billionaire-platforms challenge with webxdc, a container format and API for “chat-shared web apps”. Technically, webxdc apps are network-sandboxed HTML5 apps and instead of the HTTP protocol they use Peer-to-Peer send/receive APIs implemented by webxdc-capable messengers, rebasing relations between developers and users by saying

  • Bye Bye to surveillance capitalism: Users have both the code and the data of their web apps in their hands and benefit from end-to-end encrypted messaging not only during regular chat messaging but also during their private web app usage.

  • Bye Bye to user policing (logins, passwords, OAUTH, TOS and privacy policies etc.): Web app developers never obtain or touch any user data or user identities, and can have peace of mind of not being responsible for any data, and not having to program identity management and social discovery UIs. Messengers already provide it through arranging chat groups or rooms.

  • Bye Bye to depending on a corp or org that enshittifies: Messengers, as decentralized runners of webxdc apps in chat groups, can not hold web app developers, their users or data hostage. Consult Cory Doctorow’s “Ulysses Pact” for why this is a good idea.

This all sounds too good to be true, right? But what if another reality is possible by just stretching out our hands and grabbing it?

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  • mox@lemmy.sdf.orgEnglish
    1·
    1 hour ago

    As I recall, Delta Chat is a front end for opportunistic PGP over email, so I guess this must be a spec for sharing web apps over that channel. Yes?

    How does it compare to Matrix widgets?

  • Phoenixz@lemmy.caEnglish
    141·
    8 hours ago

    None of this will ever gain any traction ever unless

    A) it’s as simple to use as the alternatives B) users actually start using it

    • sbv@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
      9·
      8 hours ago

      C) it’s functionally equivalent to the commercial service

      D) influencers who can monetize commercial platforms can also monetize this platform - otherwise the big accounts won’t move over, nor will their followers.

      Most people use computers as tools, and just want to hang with their friends or get a dopamine hit. Platforms like Mastodon don’t quite fit the bill so they fail to gain traction.

      • amzd@lemmy.worldOPEnglish
        51·
        8 hours ago

        big accounts won’t move over, nor will their followers.

        This post is about private messaging, not social media.

        • sbv@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
          2·
          5 hours ago

          The statements about usability and monetization hold true: if the free platform is harder to use, or it breaks business models that attract users then it will fail.

      • 0x0English
        31·
        8 hours ago

        Platforms like Mastodon don’t quite fit the bill so they fail to gain traction.

        They may fail to impress VC, but i wouldn’t say they fail to gain traction… especially while commenting in one of them.

    • amzd@lemmy.worldOPEnglish
      11·
      8 hours ago

      simple to use

      • share a webxdc zip file in your chat
      • ???
      • profit

      Not sure how to make that simpler

  • farcaster@lemmy.worldEnglish
    9·
    9 hours ago

    Ok, sounds cool. So I downloaded a .xdc file and… now what? I think they should’ve started with a paragraph on how to actually run one of these files.

    • themadcodger@kbin.earth
      2·
      4 hours ago

      I was confused at first, but it actually was pretty easy. They do need better documentation, but you start with Delta Chat and in a chat with someone (tested it with myself) you either link the downloaded file, or click apps and download it right into the chat. Then click to open.

      It’s kinda cool, and now they have on boarding “email-lite” servers instead of making you configure your own email address, though that’s still an option. Don’t know anyone who uses it though.

    • amzd@lemmy.worldOPEnglish
      31·
      9 hours ago

      They are apps that use a messenger as backend, so basically your conversation with someone else has all the state of the webxdc. In Delta Chat that would be the encrypted email thread.

      To use a webxdc share it in any of the mentioned messaging apps.

      • MalReynolds@slrpnk.netEnglish
        9·
        7 hours ago

        Clear as mud. (I actually dimly get it, I’m a dev, but mere mortals will be clueless and move on). Farcaster is right, you need to define terms and give examples of actually getting this up and running, you’ve got way too much internal context that you’re not making explicit. Not an attack, trying to help, project sounds cool.

        • stringere@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
          5·
          7 hours ago

          The captain’s right, it needs to be more accessible to get started using it. 30 years in tech and I’m also only vaguely understanding due to undefined process and procedure. Great project and I hope to see it move forward.