The Protest Vote Paradox™
As we’ve all read time after time in the months leading up to the election, the Protest Vote™ simply states states that:
“We refuse to vote against a Tyrant-Felon in order to send a clear and concise message that we will not stand for [roll D20 for random popular single issue], and alongside our refusal to vote against the Tyrant-Felon, is a collective hope that the aforementioned clear and concise message- if ignored, is received under unmitigated duress!”
-Cut to Tyrant-Felon’s win, and the aftermath:
Wether observed or not, the behavior of the Protest Voter will attempt to achieve the following:
• Obnoxiously tell everyone “We told you all what would happen!”
• Claim there is “No way protest voting could cause trump to win.”As both of these options cannot simultaneously be true in the same reality without breaking important time-space things that we would probably prefer not be broken- we are left with only a few logical conclusions:
- Protest voters have no idea what they’re talking about.
- Protest voters don’t understand the concept of hypocrisy.
- Protest voters have somehow learned to defy reality and become exempt from the concept of paradoxes, thus creating an entirely new study of theoretical science, known as Bulletproof Symbiotic Hypocrisy Theory, or BLsHt.
Something, something, something Ted Talk.
Coworker: “I hate trump, he should never be president!” Me: “So you’re voting Harris?” Coworker: “I don’t know if we’re ready for a WoMaN president”
Asking for a friend, where is the nearest cliff? He would like to go jump off of it.
Good thing they got rid of Genocide Joe to pave the way Death dealing Donny
Reminder that the West Bank is the one that’s not even ruled by Hamas and hasn’t attacked Israel. If Israel tried to do this under Harris, no doubt weapons would’ve been cut off and the US might have even favored sanctions.
Maybe the political party should have conformed to the pressure of the people who vote in its party. Just saying.
Dems would rather lose than appeal to what americans actually want.
Also funny to imagine protest voters being powerful enough to sway the election but not powerful enough for Dems to listen to
Dems would rather lose than appeal to what americans actually want.
Lol. If we changed our foreign policies to win elections every 4 years we’d have exactly ZERO allies.
Israel is America’s most important ally in the middle east. We ain’t giving that up for a single election.
Edit: Ruffled some stupid feathers. Proud of your protest vote?
Why is Israel America’s most important ally in the region?
Is it because they’re a colonial outpost?
A racist apartheid country is not who I want to be a close ally of my country.
It might be because they are a rogue nuclear state…
ally
America doesn’t have allies, we have vassal states and economically enforced consrcripts lol.
Why do you think all these 3rd world countries want BRICS to actually fly? They’re tired of being held hostage with USD.
I mean they straight up declared themselves police of the world in the 90s after the USSR fell. And we all know the police definitely aren’t just some systemically corrupt protectors of the wealthy.
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Who? People go on about how if we just told Israel to drop dead, voters would turn out in the millions, but what actual numbers are there to back it up? The majority of people willing to left the world burn as protest are young and statistically, they don’t vote, the issues be damned.
The simple reality is that this “Silent majority” of far leftists Internet pundits want the Democratic Party to appeal to does not exist. Biden didn’t try to appeal to these people, because they were never really going to turn out.
These numbers
https://www.imeupolicyproject.org/postelection-polling
By a more than three-to-one margin, Biden 2020 voters who did not vote for Harris say they would have been more likely to have voted for Harris if she “pledged to break from President Biden’s policy toward Gaza by promising to withhold additional weapons to Israel” rather than less likely.
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If there are tiny in number, then they didn’t sway the election, so your premise is false…
There is no reality in which America jeopardizes its relationship with its most important ally in the middle east.
Simply not an option.
So now we get to watch Dipshit Donny give Netanyahu free reign to turn Palestine to dust.
But if you’re implying that Dems should have lied like Republicans lie and told their constituents that they’d stop supporting Israel in order to get re-elected, then yeah, they absolutely should have done that to prevent what we’re about to experience.
Israel is not an ally to the US.
Allies don’t need to spend millions in donations to Congress and presidental candidate.
Allies don’t launch and support campaign to attack (anti-apartheid) protesters and candidates.
Allies, don’t attack US military and blame it on Arab.
Allies don’t protect pedophile and refuse to sign a extradition agreement.
Perhaps they weren’t, but they’re certainly an ally of Trump, so congratulations anyone who didn’t vote for Harris. You won. Israel has their best friend in office
There is absolutely no difference between the two when it come to Israel.
There obviously is, thus all the threads like this where trump does something to empower israel that biden didn’t, causing rational people to go “we told you so”, and people like you to go “lalala”
On October 13, 2023, The US called up Egypt and suggest that Palestinians in Gaza go to the Sinai Peninsula. Egypt refused so did Jordan. Many people don’t follow what happen day by day, so they miss these news. This exact topic, was going on for a while until Egyptian military build a wall and made it clear they are not going to change their position.
The plan was openly discussed at least since the 1980s ! so saying that Trump is worst, is not accurate because all US presidents made it clear they will do whatever Israel ask for. It just the democrat wanted Arab votes on the “illusions” they are better because they don’t say the quite part out-loud compare to Trump.
I hope you’re right.
I’d hate for this to be right
Sadly it looks accurate in fact and very plausible in prediction
What if people are implying that democrats should have just idk not committed genocide?
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If only they’d put this much effort into getting one person to change her mind on the issue, instead of trying to get 10 million people to change their morals.
It appears especially ghoulish now after it came out that even her campaign’s polling showed that it was a losing position.
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Morals are morals, but they shouldn’t be completely uncompromising
In this case we had the status quo on one side and on the other, someone who was itching to throw the dial to 11 across the board.
At this point, any blood spilled as on their hands just as much as the DNC.
Some moral stances cannot be crossed. Like supporting genocide is a line the globe has generally agreed should not be crossed.
What status quo was there when Dems allow the rollback of everything even when they’re in power without even the suggestion of a fight? Unless you mean the status quo of everything continually getting worse under either party’s admin.
the status quo of everything continually getting worse under either party’s admin.
I always vomit a little in my mouth when I see comments like this.
Completely unaware of things like Dems providing cheap healthcare to vulnerable people (Obamacare) and lowering the cost of prescription medicine, and banning medical debt from showing up on credit reports, etc etc etc.
Only someone completely unaware of everything going on around them would state that the status quo for Dems is everything getting worse. Paying attention to the smallest degree destroys the lazy take that both parties are the same.
Healthcare has gotten so cheap, Luigi Mangione made a cake for a health insurance CEO.
Oh look at that, exactly what literally every sane person predicted would happen is happening.
Yep all those idiot protest voters getting exactly what trump said he would do.
I know neolibs like to blame everyone and everything but themselves but even if 100% of the protest voters voted for Harris, she still would have lost.
If every protest voter and third party voter was for Harris, she would have still lost in the landslide.
Turns out having horrid policies, saying “I’m not going to change from the person in office no one currently likes, except emulate Trump more”, doesn’t work. Who knew you had to be popular in a national popularity contest?
Do you think this wouldn’t happen if Kamala was president? Because I seem to recall an entire genocide they could have halted a year ago but chose not to.
Are you seriously arguing that slow genocide is better than quick genocide?
I’m arguing that you can have protests and at least an effect with Kamala and the dems in power…good luck with repubs and trump. They are don’t give two fucks about anyone.
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Yes after a year+ of genocide, it’s continuing unabated. People would have to be ins4Ne to believe anything else was gonna happen.
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FAFO! Big time. Bunch of idiots. They do not understand that Israel has the USA by the balls and this has been going on since the USS Liberty.
I would be curious to see the numbers but I don’t think the pro Palestine protest voters cost the Democrats the election. It definitely didn’t help, but the Dems shat the bed in way more ways than just the Palestine situation.
Pretty much. They didn’t offer anything their constituents wanted except for escape from DJT.
Unfortunately “We aren’t Donald Trump” wasn’t a winning strategy two of the three times they tried it.
I wonder what two terrible choices we are gonna have in 2028. Watch it be like fuckin Nancy Pelosi with an exoskeleton holding her up vs Dan Crenshaw who will have replaced his eye patch with a gun by then.
And, remember, it almost didn’t even work the second time. Biden was the only candidate running for the nomination poised to lose to Trump and he was forced on us, seemingly as punishment for us demanding healthcare. They were willing to throw 2020 and would have lost had the unpredictable and extraordinary circumstances of Covid-19 not occurred, along with Trump’s absolutely bungled response. Covid-19 was the sole event that propelled Biden to the white house. And then he was exactly as ineffective and terrible as all leftists predicted and we got Trump back because of it.
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I think both Trump and Biden handled COVID fucking terribly.
Really most nations handled it really fucking badly. I can forgive initial mistakes like not knowing how potent it was or how infectious it was, but once they knew the masks were pointless why the hell did they continue to push that crap everywhere.
It’s absolutely a disgrace how the Dems handled it after an entire year of Trump trying to pretend it just didn’t exist or was just a cold and using that in their campaign. Then when it became convenient for them they began to pretend it was over.
Politicians continuing to be fuckin useless yet again.
Well, whoever it is, it’ll be them running against Trump, because he’s already hinted at running for a third term, and he doesn’t give a shit if things he does are illegal. And again, whoever it is the Dems pick, they’ll be such shitheads that they’ll lose the election against Trump again, for the third time. There is absolutely no chance whatsoever they learn their lesson in the next four years, because democrats are mentally incapable of even considering they could ever do anything wrong.
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compulsive liar 24/7
specifically clarified afterwards
I was saying that the left says he’s a liar 24/7 but for whatever reason chose to believe him completely when he made that comment. But then they just go right back to calling him a liar when he made clarifications afterwards.
It’s not that complex if you have a handful of functioning brain cells my guy.
I thought it was strange why you were defending Trump, till you started in about “tHe LeFt”. Now it makes perfect sense.
“two”
I’m not really sure what you were trying to get at with that comment. Are you implying that it wasn’t two times that Donald Trump won?
Oh sorry. “Two” parties.
I question even that: Did they really? Where did the party articulate a cohesive plan (or hell, even just an enthusiastic promise) to counter the rise of oligarchy?
They promised an escape from him stylistically, but the majority of citizens who aren’t political junkies weren’t sick of it, because they weren’t exposed to it, because they don’t pay much attention to political news. What did they promise that the non-informed voter would notice in they’re day-to-day life?
They promised that their oligarchs would be nicer to us. Which, to be fair, is probably true.
You’d think that would’ve been enough…
ok
Pro-Palestine protest votes didn’t cost the Dems the election, but that a single group was not the deciding factor in a contest does not absolve them of responsibility. IE single-issue pro-Israel voters probably were not the reason for Trump’s victory, but they still deserve a portion of the blame in voting for Trump.
And many of these selfsame pro-Palestine protest vote types are continuing their dumbass games even as Trump greenlights fascism both at home and abroad - like everyone fucking told them he would.
And many of these selfsame pro-Palestine protest vote types are continuing their dumbass games even as Trump greenlights fascism both at home and abroad - like everyone fucking told them he would.
The dimbass games are posts like this instead of arguing for civil disruption and actions beyond elections. The protesters entire point was the election won’t stop the genocide either way and further action is needed. Trying to bait them into an argument about an election that’s already fucking over serves nothing. Unless you don’t care about the issue in the first place and just want to be divisive about it.
What actions do you suggest?
Any direct action and organizing, frankly. From mutual aid and disruptive protests to boycott, sabotage, and strike(which would take years to organize).
The protesters entire point was the election won’t stop the genocide either way and further action is needed.
And in the interest of furthering that point, they did everything they could to ensure a Democratic defeat. After all, if Palestinians are genocided by Israel, it’s only fair that American minorities get genocided by Republicans, right?
Trying to bait them into an argument about an election that’s already fucking over serves nothing.
I’m not trying to bait them into any sort of argument. They’re long past help. They’re out here on Lemmy already praising Trump as the ‘lesser evil’ and insisting, even now, that there’s no difference between Trump and Harris in terms of policy. Any argument with them is fucking pointless.
But I’m sorry that you don’t like that I’m not giving them asspats for their ‘principled’ stand against American minorities over an issue that, even according to your summary of their motivations, they realized would not be changed by their attacks on the non-fascist candidate in the election.
After all, if Palestinians are genocided by Israel, it’s only fair that American minorities get genocided by Republicans, right?
Solidarity for me, but not for thee. It doesn’t work out well.
Yes, this is why the smartest choice for LGBT folk in 1939 Poland would have been to welcome the Nazis, what with Poland being, at the time, far from LGBT-friendly. Because if there’s not solidarity for everyone, there should be solidarity for no one.
/s, for all of those out there patting each other on the back over ensuring the fascist won the 2024 American presidential election.
Or maybe when voting makes it impossible to achieve justice you should move towards other forms of resistance, like my original point was. Part of that resistance is nonparticipation. It’s an expected outcome. I voted for Harris but you don’t see me clutching my pearls over the idea that maybe this system just needs to go.
Or maybe when voting makes it impossible to achieve justice
Oh, of course, when you can’t achieve justice by voting, the correct decision is to ensure that voting results in the worst possible resolution. If you can’t have justice, you must have as much injustice as possible. The only moral choice, of course. Basic accelerationism. Every good revolutionary knows this.
you should move towards other forms of resistance, like my original point was.
Like fucking what? The easy answer of “We’re going to rise up and firebomb the rich any day now :‘’')” has been parroted by leftist wannabe suburban kids since the 70s; fuck’s sake, I’ve heard the line myself for the past 20 fucking years. And what has happened? Where are these masses ready to rise up, since they find voting no longer radical enough for their tastes?
They aren’t exchanging voting for more effective forms of change. They’re just abandoning voting, and replacing it with jack fucking shit. They continue to sit on their fucking asses, like always. They don’t organize en masse, they don’t take up lone wolf violence. They do nothing, except play at purity games to jerk themselves off over how pure they are for abandoning as many minorities and oppressed groups as they can to literal fucking fascists. And you know who suffers for it?
All of us.
Fuck’s sake.
Part of that resistance is nonparticipation. It’s an expected outcome.
Are you fucking kidding me? “Resistance is nonparticipation”?
What a fucking joke. Am I suppose to thank these twats for nonparticipating us into camps? Should I thank them for nonparticipating Ukraine into a potential genocide? What did nonparticipation gain us ‘revolutionary’ elements? Are we better poised to strike against the system now? No? We’re actually worse off? Fucking fantastic.
I voted for Harris but you don’t see me clutching my pearls over the idea that maybe this system just needs to go.
“This system needs to go” does not need the addendum “Therefore, I’m going to make the system as terrible as possible”.
single-issue pro-Israel voters probably were not the reason for Trump’s victory, but they still deserve a portion of the blame in voting for Trump.
Except they didnt vote for trump and it’s disgusting to pretend otherwise
Except they didnt vote for trump and it’s disgusting to pretend otherwise
But they helped him become president. Do you understand that you can help someone become president even if you don’t vote for them? Is that a concept that you can grasp?
But they helped him become president
Millions of people in solid blue states didn’t vote, you think they helped Trump win?
Blanket statements like “if they didn’t vote they voted for trump” are fucking stupid when you look at literally any detailed data
Pro-Israel voters absolutely voted for Trump.
So we’re discussing a tiny portion of people now to avoid being called out for the authoritarian vote bullshit now, eh?
So we’re discussing a tiny portion of people now to avoid being called out for the authoritarian vote bullshit now, eh?
What is that supposed to even mean?
Well at least you admit to awful reading capabilities
Bruh, I explicitly made the point of “Being a small part of the problem does not absolve people of being part of the problem”, and your response is
So we’re discussing a tiny portion of people now to avoid being called out for the authoritarian vote bullshit now, eh?
Between the fact that we were discussing a ‘tiny portion of people’ from the very start and that ‘authoritarian vote bullshit’ is a vague phrase that makes no solid assertions except “vote bad >:(” for some reason, you’ve said nothing of substance unless there’s some means of clarifying. I offered you a chance to clarify. You declined.
Don’t really know how much more help you want here. I’m not here to spoonfeed you, guy.
Well said. I really wish people understood that blame can be shared because they really don’t seem to understand that and haven’t since November.
They understand. They just don’t want the blame and want to shift the responsibility for their irresponsible actions to anyone but themselves.
Haha it’s people with flawed logic like you who deserve all the blame.
People who think like you should have to pass aptitude tests before they vote since they literally lined up behind an undemocratically appointed presidential candidate who had no concrete policy position except vibez and no fundamental changes from Biden.
People who couldn’t see an obvious and humiliating loss coming for Harris and the democrats since Biden was the candidate are the only people responsible for this disaster.
The democrats could have given you options. They didn’t because they don’t care about you. They paraded around a half-dead 80 year old man as competent and made excuses for his ineptitude while telling everyone who said he wasn’t fit that they were the ones who were actually crazy. Then they do a last minute bait and switch because he is literally falling apart before the world’s eyes. They lied to you over and over and you are still carrying water for them. Does the history of the situation not matter now that Trump is president?
That’s exactly why people are being called bluemaga.
Yes, of course, how could I not see that “no fundamental changes from Biden” was a horror worth electing a literal fascist. Thank you for informing me that worsening every issue facing us was the preferable choice in order to teach those darn Dems a lesson. Many of us filthy poors and minorities will suffer and die, but that’s a sacrifice you and your’s are willing to make, right?
Why are you hung up on the idea of teaching democrats a lesson? Democrats are not owed votes. They have to earn them. They did not earn them this time for a multitude of reasons, but you want to blame everyone else except them and their weak policies, weak campaigns, weak candidates, and shattered moral compass.
You can prefer the slow unnoticeable slip into fascism the democrats were offering instead of the highway to hell version republicans are unrolling, but please just be honest about it.
Biden did nothing to improve American’s every day lives. The cost of living keeps going up and all the democrats do is say, “hey, the parliamentarian that you have never heard of says we can’t do $15 minimum wage, but we can give ourselves raises and send billions to Ukraine for a proxy war and even more billions to Israel for a genocide. oh things are getting too expensive out there? slow down on the avocado toast. get a job as a coder. see our lives are fine, why are you all complaining.”
We were going to end up in the same place whether democrats or republicans won. It’s just more pleasing to you draped in blue instead of red. I thought maybe TDS democrats would finally start fighting for Palestine once Trump came into office, but they instead turned their derangement on the people who don’t want American to fund and safeguard a genocide. Crazy times we are witnessing.
Why are you hung up on the idea of teaching democrats a lesson? Democrats are not owed votes. They have to earn them.
“Your genocide is an acceptable price to teach those damn Dems a lesson!”
Yeah, I wonder why I’m hung up on that. Fucking fascist.
We were going to end up in the same place whether democrats or republicans won.
Privileged bothsides bullshit. Fuck’s sake.
I thought maybe TDS democrats
Mask-off, I see.
You see nothing because you live in an echo chanber. You can’t see both sides are playing you because you don’t want to believe it. You need a bad guy and a good guy to come save you.
Newsflash: Democrats aren’t saving anything except their own asses.
Biden’s genocide was acceptable to you. Harris’s contiuation of the genocide would have been acceptable to you because it would mean Trump is not in office.
You accept Trump’s genocide as well as long as you think you have some moral high ground over people who did not vote for Holocaust Harris. Uou tell yourself, “Yeah, it’s somebody else’s fault. Not mine for voting for the WORST CANDIDATE IN US PRESIDENTIAL HISTORY. It has to be the people who wanted this to end before it even began. How are my coconut vibez?”
The masks are indeed coming off of bluemaga democrats. That is for certain. These people just as blinded in their rage towards Donald Trump as maga rages against marxists.
The moral highground you believe you occupy is flooded with the souls of Gaza that Biden and Harris allowed to be exterminated and somehow you are blaming Trump for it. It’s an amazing braintrick you perform there.
My advice is next time don’t throw your vote away.
Because the effect is the same. Sorry, again, you might finally experience what others have been.
If you think this shit is gonna be worse internally than externally; you’re gonna have a bad time.
But hey, you know best right? Nobody told you what would happen before, right? They weren’t all proven correct, right?
Well many folks stayed home, and there’s no number for that (by intention…staying home is staying home) so it would be hard to quantify.
But apathy in the face of a trump second term is worth discussing, given what was common knowledge about him by then
I think the 2024 election cycle failure falls almost exclusively on the shoulders of the Democrats.
Yeah Trump and his bullshit obviously played a part in where we ended up, but I genuinely believe that it more so came down to how the Democrats handled things in the years leading up to and during the election. I know people want to shift blame and point fingers. You could even make the argument that I’m doing that right now, but the data says otherwise.
It’s not like Trump is some generally beloved figure that was already super popular. No he’s highly controversial. Many old school Republicans and conservatives despise the guy.
So how does someone that nobody on the left likes and significant chunks on the right also aren’t a fan of end up in the office again?
At some point the democratic party need to actually reflect on where they went wrong instead of just pointing fingers and trying to shift blame.
At the end of the day it’s the job of the party to earn the votes of the people. They clearly didn’t earn enough votes.
Blue lost ground to red in every single state. That type of thing doesn’t just happen outta nowhere.
I acknowledge that the Dems MUST change. That’s super true.
But based on real historical information about trump, plus his clear intentions for this term, I would have elected an incontinent Chihuahua over trump. At least the Chihuahua would have just shit on the floor of the oval office rather than trashing minority/immigrant rights, climate/science progress, and health research and vaccine implementation all in the first week.
So if there’s criticism of dems, which is valid, there’s a seeming lack of acknowledgement of the risks trump poses, which are in great excess to anything DEM status quo
True. People keep saying there was nothing different from the Harris campaign that made her different from Biden, but when you compare the status quo, even the version of the status quo that Biden’s biggest critics were inventing, it would have still been preferable to re-electing the guy who tried to literally steal the election last time. We could have only been so lucky to have the status quo.
We never needed to discuss Biden accidentally declaring the entire country female.
Or raping people.
Or being a felon.
The status quo is going to look so desirable. Even just by the end of this year. We’ll be begging for it. Just like we were at the end of 2020. But Americans have the memory span of hamsters. So here we are.
So if there’s criticism of dems, which is valid, there’s a seeming lack of acknowledgement of the risks trump poses
Dems have ALWAYS been held to a higher standard. They have to be flawless, while Republicans literally get to be lawless.
It’s absurd and is a damning condemnation of the intelligence of the average American. If Dems don’t do exactly as we want with halos over their heads, we just throw our hands up in the air and go with our direct abusers instead. It’s pathetic. It’s so childish.
Completely agree.
It’s like the al franken thing. What he did in that joking photo was 100% wrong. But was it requiring he be expelled? Further, an active, effective blue legislator was lost for something conservatives would never have done. In some cases that’s a damn good thing.
So, on the one hand, punishment and criticism was required, but the standard is so sky high that dems just lose to republicans.
Please be clear, I’m not condoning his behavior or suggesting nothing should have happened, but I think the action shouldn’t have been running him out of town without question.
So if there’s criticism of dems, which is valid, there’s a seeming lack of acknowledgement of the risks trump poses, which are in great excess to anything DEM status quo
The inescapable conclusion is that, despite their rhetoric, the Democratic Party did not actually see Trump as a risk to the status quo – at least not the status quo they actually care about (their donors’ plutocratic gravy train), as opposed to the status quo they claim to care about (egalitarianism/civil rights).
In other words, “the Dems MUST change” is a huge understatement. It also has zero chance of happening – other than doubling down on the “we must court the mythological Enlightened Centrist and move right” change for the worse – under the current party leadership.
I think the 2024 election cycle failure falls almost exclusively on the shoulders of the Democrats.
You make some valid points, certainly. But what people are failing to recognize is none of that matters now.
We had one day, or one vote to stop this tidal wave of evil and we did not do it. Did the DNC fail to appear on a sports talk show, or drive a garbage truck around? Did they not mobilize a nationwide caucus to choose the best candidate from every single human alive today with just four months to go? Yeah, i guess, whatever - it doesn’t matter.
People who refused to stop trump because of Palestine helped ensure that situation would get 100x worse. And they were complete ignorant assholes about it. Dog forbid they learn anything from this.
This. At the end of the day the only responsible ones are the people and whether or not they vote for good, or standby and let evil prevail.
The responsibility for this lies squarely with the American people. Not the DNC.
Yup.
Blame parties all you want. The American people failed at maintaining their democracy. It’s our fault as an electorate. Our shit government is a reflection of our shit electorate.
I’m getting real tired of the “they didn’t earn my vote” bullshit. How about those fools actually look up data over time regarding both parties and make an educated vote? Especially in this election, which was the most blatant election we’re ever likely to see. This was, in no way, a confusing election. The better option was so unbelievably obvious the English language almost lacks words to describe it.
It certainly was that obvious if you pay attention how we do, but don’t you see how blaming the populous takes this from an actionable problem to a less actionable one. ‘Improving’ the populace requires a concerted effort and time, both of which are lacking…
Surely it would be better to blame the bullshit artists stirring the pot than the general public. That is, those who push the narrative so heavily in favour of the right regardless of the individual democrats actions. Those who intentionally undermine education and control information such that false narratives can prevail.
But it is also naive to act like the DNC was entirely without fault. There can be multiple parties at fault. They need to meet people where they are at, otherwise they won’t get anywhere.
At the end of the day it’s the job of the party to earn the votes of the people. They clearly didn’t earn enough votes.
But what does that mean when you’re up against a party entirely comfortable with outright lying, who are willing to peddle the most extreme, absurd propaganda to a nation of dunces that actually eat it up?
Does that mean Democrats should become what we hate and just start lying and peddling the craziest propaganda possible like the Republicans?
I don’t see the Dem’s campaign as being the issue. The issues are that Americans are dumb as fuck and that we have ALWAYS held Democrats to higher standards. So even if they run a cleaner campaign and have a voting history proving they are better for the middle/lower classes, we still DEMAND more of them, or else we’re going to just go with our abusers instead.
Americans are fucking dumb. That’s not really the Dem’s fault. Especially since they support our public education system WAY more than Republicans do, who want to privatize it.
Yo can do some demographic analysis on it and that points to: white suburban men didn’t shou up to vote.
That’s true but you can’t attribute exactly why, which was my point.
You can make some correlations about identifying key issues to a given group, but you can’t guarantee their absence wasn’t just due to either not being able to vote due to work or some other legitimate limitation on their ability, or just being a shitty lazy citizen, or protest absence
Id say anyone with half a brain, paid attention and was an informed voter knew exactly this is what we were in for - but it’s clear most Americans are not informed because of the huge number of people who didn’t participate (for whatever reasons)
Highly engaged voters voted overwhelmingly for Kamala. Not because they liked her, but because they knew the alternative was dog shit. This is not an ideal situation.
It wouldn’t have been a landslide, but it certainly assured the worst case scenario, MAGA sweeping all 3.
Who knows how it would have gone down otherwise, maybe the Democrats regained the house, maybe held onto the Senate. Maybe Trump would have lost, but Republicunts held onto Congress.
Who knows, but any of those would have been 10000x better than letting Drump get a hold of all 3.
Now everyone is screwed in some way.
What do you mean don’t blame the brown people for White America’s problems/identity crisis?
Fuckin what?
If you think white people have problems because of brown people, you’re a stupid fuck. White people collect all the money that makes white people poor.
“It’s pretty cool that MAGA Elon has so much money and my life sucks.”
Agreed 💯
If we don’t give the nation of Israel full control of the region, then we can’t fulfill the prophecy to bring end times!
Trump claiming credit for ceasefire and then destroying the region was always Bibi’s plan. The propalestine protestors were against the administration for refusing to acknowledge that the israeli’s were not negotiating in good faith. Had they played hard ball things might have been different.
Bullshit. I voted against my conscience because I knew orange would harm people I love. It wasn’t enough.
Dems didn’t offer anything compelling because they are a failed party that can only drive votes with threats of even worse. It’s pretty easy to not fund a genocide and lie and say it isn’t happening when it clearly is. Dems can blame only themselves for poor turnout.
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What the fuck are you saying?
both sides are the same
That I didn’t vote because I knew trump was worse? I voted.
the threats didn’t come from the dems. they came from the magats.
“We’re fighting fascism,” or whatever they were saying. They didn’t convince enough people to vote for them.
you make it sound easy but agreements between nations are anything but that. last time I checked both the dems and repubs were running the government…how convenient of you to forget that.
Regan called the head (premiere, president, I don’t know) of Israel to tell them to calm down and the did. I’m not forgetting things. You don’t know history.
Again:
agreements between nations are anything but that
Wait did I forget how he took us out of the Iran deal to limit their nuclear program?
Grow up.
Wait did I forget how he took us out of the Iran deal to limit their nuclear program?
That is the exact opposite of how it works. The deal limited their progress, Trump canceling the deal gave them free reign to continue unimpeded.
Grow up.
What is it with you lot and ignoring your own advice?
Yeah, I voted blue, but I knew this was going to happen regardless of who won.
At least with the blue team they’re less likely to bend to protests…red team will just send the boots to step directly on you.
That’s why politics for ordinary people needs to go way beyond voting.
If voting isnt enough it means politics is basically inaccessible to those struggling just to make ends meet. With what time does a starving man get to meet with their representative, which representative would even give him an audiance.
Sure, if you’re on the edge of survival then that comes first. But I don’t think that’s the case for most people engaged in this conversation. Very few people in developed countries are literally starving.
But you’re right that this is unfair to people who pouring all of their energy into basic survival. In a better, more liberated world of the future, I hope voting will be sufficient. But that’s just not the world of today. We live in a world where we got to choose between two candidates who both favored materially supporting the murder of thousands of Palestinian children. Between killing the biosphere slowly or quickly. Between brazen corruption or discrete corruption.
That’s not a world where voting is anywhere close to enough.
But this is also why I think mutual aid is the single most important political action right now. If we can provide for and protect our community, this builds up our power naturally and gives those people experiencing hardship a chance to participate as well. And once we are united we are unstoppable.
I voted against my conscience because I knew orange would harm people I love. It wasn’t enough.
So what? You still did the right/smart thing.
Dems didn’t offer anything compelling because they are a failed party
A failed party with a history of voting in favor of the middle/lower classes, who have provided affordable healthcare, strengthened worker rights/unions, lowered prescription drug costs, banned medical debt from showing up on credit reports, invested in clean energy, placed regulations on companies harming our environment, etc etc etc?
When are you going to stop blaming Dems and start accepting that an amoral party was able to convince a terrifying number of stupid Americans to vote against their own interests utilizing propaganda? It’s not like it’s the first time in history that’s happened.
When are you going to stop blaming Dems and start accepting that an amoral party was able to convince a terrifying number of stupid Americans to vote against their own interests utilizing propaganda? It’s not like it’s the first time in history that’s happened.
Both are true at the same time. She failed to condemn a genocide. Are you telling me that you think all those students protesting didn’t matter?
There were no “threats,” just pointing out real shit…
Vote for me or you get Trump
That’s a threat, don’t pretend to be stupid
No, it was an appeal to common sense, which apparently an absolutely terrifying number of Americans lack.
Finally I can stop wondering how the protest voters handle aiding and completing a genocide while claiming to have any sense of morality at all.
They ignore it because they never cared, that’s IT! NOTHING ELSE. ITS ALWAYS SOMEONE ELSES FAULT BECAUSE OF THEIR NARCISSISM.
