Edit: Actually, I’ll elaborate on my thoughts since I made it. I completely agree that vegan/vegetarian is the morally superior position. Even though we evolved to eat meat we can and should choose to live in a way that causes as little harm to nature as possible. That being said I do eat meat. There are a lot of things I would like to improve about myself and that’s just not one I am currently prioritizing.
The point of this meme is that instead of fighting our society would be much better if we worked together on common goals. There are degrees of harm and factory farming is SO much worse for animals than traditional farming. If we all worked together we could build a society with less meat consumption overall and where farm animals are treated better. And everyone would be happier for it.
It reads as anti-vegan to me because it’s another variation of “if vegans were nicer, everyone would eat less meat and become vegan.” People know about factory farming but do not care, some leftists will even defend it while claiming to be “neutral” on the subject. Vegans are nice in general, that’s not why they are hated. They are hated because they expose a truth about society and people do not like what that truth says about themselves.
Also lower row vegan is a dumb caricature. Veganism is about reducing harm, a vegan would not want a person to starve to death. Which families are starving to death because of eggs? It just reads like someone who is anti-vegan made this. Exasperated vegans don’t understand how to convince your average meat-eater that animal lives have value the way a human life has value, that factory farming contributes to destroying the environment, and that eating a plant based diet can be healthy. Because the reaction they usually get is some variation of lower row meat-eater, no matter how nice they are about, or what facts they use, or any emotions they try to appeal to. You cannot work together when meat-eaters will fight tooth and nail so they do not have to give up their meat.
Search lemmy for “vegan reducing harm.” Then search the broad internet for the same thing. You’ll find that this is a common ethos in veganism. I suggest going to the vegan communities (keep in mind you are not welcome in some due to you being a carnist, read the sidebar) and talk to the vegans there. Ask them about harm reduction. You might want to do the debatebro thing, but you might learn more just listening.
Veganism is a philosophy and way of living which seeks to exclude—as far as is possible and practicable—all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing or any other purpose
You disagree that this is harm reduction? If it was the elimination of all harm no matter what, this would not be on there. I understand you believe you know more about this than the actual vegans, but you should ask them and listen.
are only two forms of harm. it’s not about harm reduction. it’s about excluding exploitation and cruelty from your personal practice. if this somehow created more net harm, you could still be vegan.
I recognized the point OP was going for, but by singling out veganism (and with such a tired stereotype), the tone changes.
I wonder if adding another two examples (because rule of 3), along with the vegan/meat-eater scenario (or replacing it), might help convey the intent more clearly. It would remove the spotlight from one particular group (which, as we all know, is already heavily targeted with undue hate), and would make it more obvious that the message is “we’re all in this together.”
It would take restructuring the whole comic, unfortunately, but it could work.
This meme isn’t anti vegan…
Edit: Actually, I’ll elaborate on my thoughts since I made it. I completely agree that vegan/vegetarian is the morally superior position. Even though we evolved to eat meat we can and should choose to live in a way that causes as little harm to nature as possible. That being said I do eat meat. There are a lot of things I would like to improve about myself and that’s just not one I am currently prioritizing.
The point of this meme is that instead of fighting our society would be much better if we worked together on common goals. There are degrees of harm and factory farming is SO much worse for animals than traditional farming. If we all worked together we could build a society with less meat consumption overall and where farm animals are treated better. And everyone would be happier for it.
It reads as anti-vegan to me because it’s another variation of “if vegans were nicer, everyone would eat less meat and become vegan.” People know about factory farming but do not care, some leftists will even defend it while claiming to be “neutral” on the subject. Vegans are nice in general, that’s not why they are hated. They are hated because they expose a truth about society and people do not like what that truth says about themselves.
Also lower row vegan is a dumb caricature. Veganism is about reducing harm, a vegan would not want a person to starve to death. Which families are starving to death because of eggs? It just reads like someone who is anti-vegan made this. Exasperated vegans don’t understand how to convince your average meat-eater that animal lives have value the way a human life has value, that factory farming contributes to destroying the environment, and that eating a plant based diet can be healthy. Because the reaction they usually get is some variation of lower row meat-eater, no matter how nice they are about, or what facts they use, or any emotions they try to appeal to. You cannot work together when meat-eaters will fight tooth and nail so they do not have to give up their meat.
i think you’re conflating veganism with utilitarianism
Search lemmy for “vegan reducing harm.” Then search the broad internet for the same thing. You’ll find that this is a common ethos in veganism. I suggest going to the vegan communities (keep in mind you are not welcome in some due to you being a carnist, read the sidebar) and talk to the vegans there. Ask them about harm reduction. You might want to do the debatebro thing, but you might learn more just listening.
i’ve read singer. while many are taken in by his utilitarian argument for veganism, veganism predates its utiltarian defense, and is harm-agnostic.
Again, ask vegans. Your comments show a lack of understanding them which is why I suggested this.
even the vegan society’s explanation page never mentions harm. i’m well-read on the theory, and utilitarianism, and you seem to be conflating it.
edit: here
You disagree that this is harm reduction? If it was the elimination of all harm no matter what, this would not be on there. I understand you believe you know more about this than the actual vegans, but you should ask them and listen.
are only two forms of harm. it’s not about harm reduction. it’s about excluding exploitation and cruelty from your personal practice. if this somehow created more net harm, you could still be vegan.
I recognized the point OP was going for, but by singling out veganism (and with such a tired stereotype), the tone changes.
I wonder if adding another two examples (because rule of 3), along with the vegan/meat-eater scenario (or replacing it), might help convey the intent more clearly. It would remove the spotlight from one particular group (which, as we all know, is already heavily targeted with undue hate), and would make it more obvious that the message is “we’re all in this together.”
It would take restructuring the whole comic, unfortunately, but it could work.