Why was lemmygrad blocked? - sh.itjust.works
sh.itjust.works
Did the admins poll the community about it? Why was such measure so needed? If the tankie content is so annoying why not let users decide what they want to see or not and what they want to block? I don’t like that the admins want to censor the content I can view or not. You guys are not protecting us nor doing us a favor, you’re imposing your views over everyone else by limiting the information we are able to receive. I don’t support the devs views or the views in lemmygrad, but this is a dangerous precedent. I’ve read several of the “arguments” for blocking the instance and all I can see is a bunch of people talking about politics and arguing about “floods in the frontpage”. Well, let the user block communities if that’s the case, same way I’m already blocking communities I’m not interested. I think the admins want to feel like Facebook moderation. I’d be OK with it if any instance repeatedly generated spam, security, doxxing or any other concern that couldn’t be solved by banning individuals, otherwise it’s just plain censorship. I just don’t want the admins to use their power to decide what I can see or not. If this is going to be like this, I’ll leave for a better instance because I can see where this is going to.

EDIT: It seems that I have may have gotten the wrong impression about the community structure here from the @TheDude comment I listed below. It looks like this should have been posted to The Agora. I appreciate everyone who took the time to respond. Now I must go find fresh air and see if I can find this grass thing that I have heard so much about.

First, let me say thank you for spending your time and money on creating and maintaining this instance.

Second, the name sh.itjust.works is great. It gives me a little half smile every time I type it.

Third, I am hoping this can be my Fediverse home base but I have a single concern.

Now on to the meat:

I have been over on lemmy.world for the last few days and really enjoying the content and experience, but as I was learning more about the Fediverse I realized they have blocked a whole slew of other instances. Most of the reason I have grown to dislike and distrust reddit over the years was because of their random subreddit bans that didn’t follow their own rules and processes, so it was a pretty big turn-off for me looking at the lemmy.world Instances List.

When I heard this instance only had two blocked instances, I immediately came here to check it out. I quickly saw like-minded individuals genuinely engaging in reasonable discussion about what should and should not be defederated, so I decided to go ahead and make an account. It didn’t take long though before I decided to look into why each of the instances were banned.

It seems like burggit allows simulated CP which is a pretty decent reason for blocking them in my mind. On the other hand, the only thing I could find about lemmygrad.ml was this (https://sh.itjust.works/comment/130474) post that says you blocked it because of your personal convictions.

Given that this instance is your own personal project, I certainly don’t fault you for choosing what is acceptable and what is not, but I am concerned about making sh.itjust.works my home base if it is just the start. Based on the previous post it doesn’t seem like something you are going to change your mind about, nor do I have an interest in trying to convince you to do so. What I would like to know is if this is going to be a regular thing.

Are you intending to block any instances with political opinions that you are staunchly against? Further, are you planning to create any sort of standard for what kind of instance you are likely or unlikely to ban in the future?

Bonus question for my curiosity: What makes lemmygrad so against your personal convictions? While I have a basic understanding of Marxism/Communism and am aware that current communist countries have a pretty questionable history of violence and suppressing personal and political freedoms, I think an objective viewer might say the same thing about the representative republic that I live in.

tl;dr: Are you going to block other instances for personal reasons? Also, are you going to create any standards to indicate which instances may be blocked in the future?

  • imaqtpie@sh.itjust.worksMEnglish
    3713·
    2 years ago

    Firstly, welcome. I hope you choose to stick around.

    Lemmygrad.ml is blocked and will almost certainly remain blocked. Any further discussion of that topic is moot. I understand your point, but to be frank, they only have about 700 active users. They simply don’t have very much to contribute, even if they were commenting in good faith. And they obviously aren’t, given how many instances have defederated them.

    Going forward, the decision to defederate instances is not going to be taken lightly. I don’t speak for TheDude, but my understanding of defederation is that it should be utilized defensively, rather than aggressively. If another server is harassing our users, disrupting our communities, or otherwise preventing our server from flourishing, then we will consider defederation.

    Barring that extent of conflict, the block functionality exists so that individual users can protect themselves from unwanted content without compromising the integrity of the federated model.

    You will have the opportunity to raise any arguments in favor of or against defederation in the relevant discussion thread that will be posted to the Agora prior to the vote.

    https://sh.itjust.works/c/agora

    We do not have any intention of becoming beehaw here, but we also need to protect the standard of discourse that has already emerged on this server.

    I hope I have addressed your concerns. Let me know if there’s anything I left out.

      • imaqtpie@sh.itjust.worksMEnglish
        135·
        2 years ago

        You’ve been here 3 weeks and 3 of your first 6 comments, weeks ago, are also asking why lemmygrad was blocked, on multiple different servers. Didn’t Lemmy.one and lemmy.fmhy.ml already tell you why? You’re not asking in good faith.

          • imaqtpie@sh.itjust.worksMEnglish
            32·
            2 years ago

            They advocate for authoritarian communist governments and are a consistently disruptive influence on other communities. They are tankies.

      • dnick@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
        1·
        2 years ago

        Seems like they might not want to say, but the overall point is that it seems like they don’t have to. If that is bothersome to you, you may want to move to a different instance, warn people about the fact that this can be done without explanation or any number of things that you can do for you, but simply calling them out over and over doesn’t seem terribly productive.

        Edit: What I mean to say it’s that you seem to be complaining about the fact that they can defederate without explaining themselves, but instead of saying that you seem to be passive-aggressively just posting an observation insinuating that that is the problem. Not every post is going to be a direct explanation of why they did a thing and picking one post and complaining that there aren’t other posts with the answer you want is poor conversational skills.

      • JshKlsn@lemmy.mlEnglish
        38·
        2 years ago

        Have you seen the comments there?

        It’s all extreme liberal hate.

        I’m not really interested in hearing about why trans people deserve to die, or people complaining about a trans influencer being on a beer can. If I wanted to hear that, I’d visit my parents.

        You can be a right wing person without resorting to such extreme hate. There’s really no need for that shit.

        • FiskFisk33@lemmy.worldEnglish
          102·
          2 years ago

          right wing? they are marxist-leninist communists, they’re as left wing as it gets.

          • JshKlsn@lemmy.mlEnglish
            16·
            2 years ago

            Okay, well I don’t know much about politics. I just know liberals are left, conservatives are right, and lemmygrad is hating on liberals and LGBTQIA+, so I figured they were right wing.

            Either way, whatever they are, they are disgusting. Like I said, I don’t care to see posts about why trans people deserve to die. No need for such extremism.

            • Aradina [She/They]@lemmy.mlEnglish
              71·
              2 years ago

              What are you talking about? Lemmygrad is explicitly extremely pro-LGBT. They aggressively ban transphobia.

              "I just know liberals are left, conservatives are right, "

              You “know” wrong then, sorry. Liberalism is only considered left-wing in the United States and other similarly conservative countries.

              • JshKlsn@lemmy.mlEnglish
                23·
                2 years ago

                You “know” wrong then, sorry. Liberalism is only considered left-wing in the United States and other similarly conservative countries.

                I am Canadian. I know correctly for whats relevant for my country.

                Why are you being so toxic? Can’t we have a conversation where you inform me without being rude about it? Leave the toxic attitude on Reddit.

                What are you talking about? Lemmygrad is explicitly extremely pro-LGBT. They aggressively ban transphobia.

                From my experience, they’ve used a ton of slurs and posted hate towards LGBTQIA+. Not sure why I would be seeing those posts and comments if they were extremely pro-LGBTQIA+?

    • Nahvi@sh.itjust.worksOPEnglish
      1016·
      2 years ago

      I appreciate the thorough response, but yeah, you kind of did miss my main question. I am just trying to find out if it is @TheDude’s intention to block other subs that conflict too strongly with his views.

      I really don’t care much one way or another if one instance that I am pretty unlikely to interact with is blocked, but I want to find out if it is a single event or if he just hasn’t had a chance to ban all the groups that offend him.

      • imaqtpie@sh.itjust.worksMEnglish
        132·
        2 years ago

        The users themselves will be voting on who to ban. I cannot speak for TheDude, but his decision to set up a democratic forum for voting on server decisions surely speaks for itself, no?

        I really don’t care much one way or another if one instance that I am pretty unlikely to interact with is blocked, but I want to find out if it is a single event or if he just hasn’t had a chance to ban all the groups that offend him.

        It’s a single event. Anything else?

        • Nahvi@sh.itjust.worksOPEnglish
          713·
          2 years ago

          Nope, that is it. Though I would have liked to have heard it from the proverbial horse’s mouth.

          • imaqtpie@sh.itjust.worksMEnglish
            285·
            2 years ago

            It’s going to be hard for TheDude to run the server and also his real life if he constantly needs to be addressing hypothetical questions from users who joined within the past 24 hours.

            That’s why I’m here.

            • Nahvi@sh.itjust.worksOPEnglish
              73·
              2 years ago

              Now that I know who you are, I have checked out The Agora and a lot of what you are saying has a bit more context. It seems I posted this in the wrong place and misunderstood the community structure here.

              Thank you for your time responding. Once I spend a bit more time looking through The Agora, I may end up asking another question or two.

              • imaqtpie@sh.itjust.worksMEnglish
                6·
                2 years ago

                Ok I’m sorry I’m at work and had to step away for a bit.

                Yes, the Agora is the platform for community input and decision making, and I’m one of the moderators.

                No problem at all, happy to help.

            • Nahvi@sh.itjust.worksOPEnglish
              68·
              2 years ago

              Who are you? A few posts back, when you responded “anything else?”, I checked to see if you were a mod of this community or admin of the instance but I don’t see you in either list.