• deur@feddit.nl
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    1 day ago

    People want pieces of art made by actual humans. Not garbage from the confident statistics black box.

    • Lumiluz@slrpnk.net
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      17 hours ago

      What if they use it as part of the art tho?

      Like a horror game that uses an AI to just slightly tweak an image of the paintings in a haunted building continuously everytime you look past them to look just 1% creepier?

      • Dizzy Devil Ducky@lemm.ee
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        17 hours ago

        Would the feature in that horror game Zort where you sometimes use the player respon item and it respons an NPC that will use clips of what a specific dead player has said while playing count as AI use? If so, that’s a pretty good use of AI in horror games in my opinion.

      • mke
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        13 hours ago

        That’s an interesting enough idea in theory, so here’s my take on it, in case you want one.

        Yes, it sounds magical, but:

        • AI sucks at make it more X. It doesn’t understand scary, so you’ll get worse crops of the training data, not meaningful changes.
        • It’s prohibitively expensive and unfeasible for the majority of consumer hardware.
        • Even if it gets a thousand times cheaper and better at its job, is GenAI really the best way to do this?
        • Is it the only one? Are alternatives also built on exploitation? If they aren’t, I think you should reconsider.
        • Lumiluz@slrpnk.net
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          6 hours ago

          •Ok, I know the researching ability of people has decreased greatly over the years, but using “knowyourmeme” as a source? Really?

          • You can now run optimized open source diffusion models on an iPhone, and it’s been possible for years. I use that as an example because yes, there’s models that can easily run on an Nvidia 1060 these days. Those models are more than enough to handle incremental changes to an image in-game

          • Already has for awhile as demonstrated by it being able to run on an iPhone, but yes, it’s probably the best way to get an uncanny valley effect in certain paintings in a horror game, as the alternatives would be:

          • spending many hours manually making hundreds of incremental changes to all the paintings yourself (and the will be a limit to how much they warp, and this assumes you have even better art skills)
          • hiring someone to do what I just mentioned (assumes you have a decent amount of money) and is still limited of course.

          • I’ll call an open source model exploitation the day someone can accurately generate an exact work it was trained on not within 1, but at least within 10 generations. I have looked into this myself, unlike seemingly most people on the internet. Last I checked, the closest was a 90 something % similarity image after using an algorithm that modified the prompt over time after thousands of generations. I can find this research paper myself if you want, but there may be newer research out there.

    • RampantParanoia2365@lemmy.world
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      20 hours ago

      Honest question: are things like trees, rocks, logs in a huge world like a modern RPG all placed by hand, or does it use AI to fill it out?

      • finitebanjo@lemmy.world
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        18 hours ago

        Not AI but certainly a semirandom function. Then they go through and manually clean it up by hand.

      • skibidi@lemmy.world
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        19 hours ago

        Most games (pre-ai at least) would use a brush for this and manually tweak the result if it ended up weird.

        E.g. if you were building a desert landscape you might use a rock brush to randomly sprinkle the boulder assets around the area. Then the bush brush to sprinkle some dry bushes.

        Very rare for someone to spend the time to individually place something like a rock or a tree, unless it is designed to be used in gameplay or a cutscene (e.g. a climable tree to get into a building through a window).

        • TwanHE@lemmy.world
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          18 hours ago

          That’s only for open world maps, many games where the placement of rocks and trees is something that’s subject to miniscule changes for balance reasons.

    • Pennomi@lemmy.world
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      1 day ago

      It’s all virtue signaling. If it’s good, nobody will be able to notice anyway and they’ll want it regardless. The only reason people shit on AI currently is because expert humans are still far better than it.

      We’re just at that awkward point in time where AI is better than the random joe but worse than experts.

      • mke
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        13 hours ago

        The only reason people shit on AI currently is because expert humans are still far better than it.

        Not it’s not! There are a whole bunch of reasons why people dislike the current AI-wave, from artist exploitation, to energy consumption, to making horrible shitty people and companies richer while trying to obviate people’s jobs!

        You’re so far off, it’s insane. That’s like saying people only hate slavery because the slaves can’t match craftsmen yet. Just wait a bit until they finish training the slaves, just a few more whippings, then everyone will surely shut up.

        • Pennomi@lemmy.world
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          12 hours ago

          I agree that those are reasons people give for their reasoning, but if history has shown anything, we know people change their minds when it becomes most convenient to use a technology.

          Human ethics is highly dependent on convenience, unfortunately.

          • mke
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            12 hours ago

            It sounds like you gave up and expect everyone else to do the same.

    • otp@sh.itjust.works
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      20 hours ago

      One of my favourite games used procedural generation to create game “art”, “assets”, and “maps”.

      That could conceivably be called (or enhanced by) ML today, which could conceivably be called AI today.

      But even in modern games, I’m not opposed to mindful usage of AI in games. I don’t understand why you’re trying to speak for everyone (by saying “people”) when you’re talking to someone who doesn’t share your view.

      This is like those stupid “non-GMO” stickers. Yes, GMOs are being abused by Monsanto (and probably other corporations like them). No, that doesn’t mean that GMOs are bad in all cases.

      • finitebanjo@lemmy.world
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        18 hours ago

        I think the sort of generative AI referred to is something that trains on data to approximate results, which consumes vast amounts more power.

    • piccolo@sh.itjust.works
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      1 day ago

      Humans are confident statistical black boxes. Art doesnt have to be made by a human to be aspiring.

      • Noxy@pawb.social
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        13 hours ago

        Art has to be made by people. It’s literally not art otherwise.

        • piccolo@sh.itjust.works
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          2 hours ago

          So, if a machine makes the ‘art’, its not art? So photographs are not art. The hubble telescope,or any space probe for that matter, doesnt produce art.

          Art is something that provoke emotions and expression in its observers and not produced naturally. Machines are built by people and require non-random inputs to produce something thefore anything those machines produce is art.

        • SchmidtGenetics@lemmy.world
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          18 hours ago

          What do you think grammarly is dude? Glorified spell and auto check, which people already utilize everyday. But of course new tools are looked down upon, the hypocrisy of people is amazing to see. It comes in cycles, people hated spell check, got used to it and now it’s prominent in every life, autocorrect, same thing is happening.

          And now the same is happening again. If they want to claim no ai, no spellcheck, no auto correct, and no grammarly for emails. Everyone already uses “AI” everyday. But theirs is acceptable… okay…

          • finitebanjo@lemmy.world
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            18 hours ago

            Right but to detect close-enough spellings and word orders, using a curated index or catalogue of accepted examples, is one thing.

            To train layers of algorithms in layers of machines on massive datasets to come up with close enoughs would be that but many times over the costs.

            You would be a moron to use llms for spellchecking.

            To clarify to you, not all programs are equal. Its not all different methods to do the same thing at the same cost.

              • finitebanjo@lemmy.world
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                3 hours ago

                Ok but why do you think it’s okay to use a wrecking ball for a task that requires a chisel? You’re creating low quality high cost work just because it’s fast and easy.

                • SchmidtGenetics@lemmy.world
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                  2 hours ago

                  Why do you think grammarly is a thing dude…?

                  People ALREADY use an llm for spellcheck, and it’s acceptable, yet this crosses a line…? You say people won’t use one… yet it’s already been a thing for years, your ignorance is i ionic as shit here.

                  It’s always funny what people will find acceptable, but also balk at when it’s fundamentally the exact same thing.

                  Of these devs want to claim “no ai” and everything is human, than they can’t rely on spellcheck either. Both are automated tools no?

                  • finitebanjo@lemmy.world
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                    2 hours ago

                    Grammarly predates commercial generative AI, as I attempted to explain to you before. It’s over a decade old. You clearly don’t understand the core mechanisms of any of these things.

      • Fonzie!@ttrpg.network
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        21 hours ago

        That’s not art, that’s a tool. Tools can be made better through a confident statistics box.