Meta note : am not sure if this is on topic for this community, please tell me if it is not. I could not find rules, so I assume it’s okay, but i’ll remove it if its not.

So, after the recent Mozilla privacy drama, I saw multiple recommendations of alternative browsers, each one with their pros and cons. I was trying to get a better understanding of which one was good/bad for which reasons, and I thought i might share it here so people with more knowledge can correct my takes.

Here is what I could get so far, based mostly on Lemmy comments and Wikipedia pages. This is aimed at browser that share some of Firefox values (foss, independency, (maybe) privacy, etc), so I excluded Chrome, Edge, and others. I’m open to any feedback/infos/browser suggestions to get a more accurate summary !

Browser FOSS Privacy Features Browser Family [1] Platforms Notes
Firefox ✅ ❌ ✅ Firefox WMLAI AI interest
Brave ✅ 🟠[2] ✅ Chromium WMLAI Crypto interest[3], bigot CEO[4]
Vivaldi 🟠[5] 🟠[6] ✅ Chromium WMLAI Aims to be a better Opera
Ungoogled Chromium ✅ ✅ ✅ Chromium WMLA Removes Google tracking and specific components
Cromite ✅ ✅ ✅ Chromium WLA Removes most Google tracking and keeps some specific components
Zen Browser ✅ ✅ ✅ Firefox WML
Librewolf ✅ ✅ 🟠[7] Firefox WML [8]
Waterfox ✅ 🟠[9] ✅ Firefox WMLA
Floorp ✅ ✅ ✅ Firefox WML
GNU IceCat ✅ ❓ ✅ Firefox WML Firefox without copyrighted content and with a bit more privacy
Tor Browser ✅ ✅ 🟠[10] Firefox WMLA
IronFox ✅ ✅ ❓ Firefox A
Mullvad Browser ✅ ✅ ❌[11] Independent WML Made by the Tor team and Mullvad (VPN providers)
Ladybird ✅ ❓[12] 🟠 Independent ML Very early development stage, bigot devs[13]
Orion Browser ✅ ✅ ✅ Independent MAI In beta, claims to be top browser in terms of tracker blocking, considers making a Windows version, AI interest[14]

Notes : Privacy is based on Firefox level, which I considered “bad” for the sake of the comparison. Browser family is the browser on which each is browser is based, mostly Chromium, Firefox or none. I first called it Engine and it was unclear. Features is to identify barebones browsers and how much risk there is to find websites not compatible with those browsers. Question mark is for when there is a debate or I could not find infos. Platforms is for the platforms on which the browser is available. To keep it tight, only one letter per platform : W for Windows, M for macOS, L for GNU/Linux, A for Android, I for iOS.

contributors : [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected]

Edit 1 : added Vivaldi, Floorp and Ironfox, clarify ‘Engine dependency’ column, add ‘Platforms’ column, add bigot warning for ladybird.
Edit 2 : added [email protected] table (Tor, Ungoogled chromium, Cromite) and IceCat, updated info on Vivaldi
Edit 3 : add Orion Browser, corrects lines to group browser together by engine, added users whose infos I used via edits
Edit 4 : corrected Brave and Opera Privacy rating.
Edit 5 : removed Opera since both Privacy and FOSS would be bad. Updated Vivaldi Privacy rating.
Edit 6 : changing Engine category to Browser Family and adding explanation.

  1. most browsers are fork of or rely on another browser. The two main “source” browsers are Chromium and Firefox, resulting here in three main categories : Chromium-based, Firefox-based and Independent. This is sometimes called the engine, though technically the engine is different (engines are Gecko (used by Firefox), Blink (used by Chromium), Webkit (used by Safari and Orion), and also Ladybird and Servo which are in development). ↩︎

  2. they have a lot of optional data collecting, from their Privacy Policy ↩︎

  3. from Brave’s Wikipedia page. ↩︎

  4. from his personal Wikipedia page. ↩︎

  5. some parts are open source, but the UI is proprietary ↩︎

  6. they collect data for statistics, from their Privacy Policy ↩︎

  7. some websites may be blocked due to stricter privacy setups, according to LinuxSecurity’s article cited on Wikipedia. ↩︎

  8. some users seemed to fear that having a small team, Librewolf would be late on security patches, but their FAQ seems to say it’s ok. ↩︎

  9. from Waterfox’s Wikipedia page, linking to Exodus report stating that android version of Waterfox uses same trackers as Firefox. ↩︎

  10. some websites might block tor network ↩︎

  11. lemmy users said it is barebones and their FAQ says it has little features by design to prevent fingerprinting. ↩︎

  12. could not find infos on their website or wikipedia page. Probably not that bad, but since it is in early development, it may evolve in better ways than other. ↩︎

  13. from their github, considering gender neutral wording is politics and does not belong in ladybird. ↩︎

  14. from the Kagi Wikipedia page and lemmy comments. ↩︎

    • Takapapatapaka@lemmy.worldOP
      1·
      6 hours ago

      I think what you’re looking for is the “Platforms” column, check out for the A letter (or I if you use iOS). Beware though, some that are labelled “A” may not be present in the play store or officials app stores, but only available via apk packages, or via F-Droid, so the convenience may vary (I checked quickly, and Firefox/Waterfox/Tor/DDG are on playstore, I think ungoogled-chromium/Chromite/Ironfox might be apk/F-droid only).

      If i misunderstood your question, tell me ;)

  • BananaTrifleViolin@lemmy.worldEnglish
    242·
    1 day ago

    You have a bizarre notion of “privacy”. Have you read the terms and conditions, and privacy policies of Brave, Opera and Vivaldi? Have you read Firefox’s?

    Mozilla have also made clear the data licensing terms:

    UPDATE: We’ve seen a little confusion about the language regarding licenses, so we want to clear that up. We need a license to allow us to make some of the basic functionality of Firefox possible. Without it, we couldn’t use information typed into Firefox, for example. It does NOT give us ownership of your data or a right to use it for anything other than what is described in the Privacy Notice.

    And the term that has been causing such concern:

    You give Mozilla the rights necessary to operate Firefox. This includes processing your data as we describe in the Firefox Privacy Notice. It also includes a nonexclusive, royalty-free, worldwide license for the purpose of doing as you request with the content you input in Firefox. This does not give Mozilla any ownership in that content.

    A lot of the posts on social media about this is just noise and overreaction. They’re making explicit something that has been implicit for decades and is exactly the same with other browsers (and if anything more murky and opaque)

    Edit: and if the concern is the AI chatbot stuff (which is optional) then Brave has the same kind of stuff in its privacy policy alongside a myriad of other commerical uses of your data.

    • Takapapatapaka@lemmy.worldOP
      313·
      1 day ago

      Yup, I’m totally eyeballing things here, I did not read any ToS or Privacy Policies, this is just based on whatever vague feedback i can get. If I don’t see negative feedback on Lemmy and Wikipedia and the website says they are doing “privacy”, i go for the top note. But if have info to share, i’ll gladly update it !

  • cabbage@piefed.socialEnglish
    30·
    1 day ago

    Opera is a terrible idea these days. Vivaldi picked up where Opera got bought up, and it might be the best Chromium based browser at the moment. @[email protected]

    I wrote a post here for those seeking engine independence. For those hesitant to stick with Gecko/FireFox forks, WebKit is the best bet right now.

    It seems premature to suggest Ladybird when the alpha is set to release next year.

    • parmesan@lemmy.world
      2·
      6 hours ago

      Thanks for this info, I know it’s probably not a factor for most but dismissing the existence of a group of people as “political” is a definite dealbreaker for me.

    • flavonol@lemmy.world
      21·
      1 day ago

      I was under the impression that Ladybird has become independent of the Serenity project, even if they are still related projects.

  • gedaliyah@lemmy.world
    11·
    1 day ago

    Couple quick corrections:

    The Firefox engine is called Gecko, although it is pretty closely associated with Firefox, so not sure it needs to be changed. Mullvad is built on Firefox (Gecko engine). Orion is built on Safari (WebKit engine).

    Great list!

    Personally, I’m happily sticking with Firefox. It’s pretty clear that this legal change is to facilitate new browser features and Firefox (as is their tradition) bungled the rollout and explanation. Browsers are changing and we need Firefox more than ever. It can’t really be considered a privacy browser anymore, but that is covered by the forks that depend on Mozilla development.

    • Takapapatapaka@lemmy.worldOP
      1·
      1 day ago

      Thanks for the clarification. If i’m not mistaken, Chromium is not an engine either, but a browser forked to create many other, like firefox. That’s what I was trying to show with this ‘engine’ column : would you have an idea for a better name? Maybe Browser Family? Fork of?

      Yup, in the end I think I’m going to stick with Firefox family for a while too, there really only seem to be chromium based, firefox based or tech enthusiast (as in either hyper focused on privacy or in early development) options.

      • gedaliyah@lemmy.world
        3·
        1 day ago

        Yes, Chromium-based browsers technically run on the Blink engine. I like family, although I think it’s fine to call it the “Chromium engine” or “Firefox engine” for general comparison purposes. WebKit is the Safari engine.

        • cabbage@piefed.socialEnglish
          4·
          1 day ago

          Worth noting that WebKit is open source also powers some great alternative browsers on Linux, such as Gnome Web/Epiphany. :)

          Other than Gecko, Blink, and WebKit, Ladybird and Servo are the two new engines currently being developed.

  • CubitOom@infosec.pubEnglish
    13·
    1 day ago

    Ironfox is worth a mention even though it is Android specific.

    It’s too bad that mull browser is not planning to support an android release according to issue #24

    Perhaps it would be good to add a column of which platforms each browser supports?

  • ijon_the_human@lemmy.world
    162·
    1 day ago

    Thanks for making the post! I’m sure many will find it helpful.

    Myself I’m inclined to trust old school (f)oss projects much more than these new “privacy focused” solutions that seem to have the half life of a fart.

    I’ll probably stick with a firefox fork for now, there’s plenty of them and it allows me to keep all of my addons and configs.

  • haskman
    12·
    1 day ago

    Engine independence should really be titled “Not Chromium”

  • sarcasticsunrise@lemmy.world
    51·
    1 day ago

    Massive big props to OP and everyone who helped compiling this list. I’m not computer illiterate, but a lot of you on here are leaps and bounds more tech savvy than I 😘

  • Dojan@lemmy.world
    5·
    1 day ago

    I’ve been on LibreWolf for a year. Honestly I’ve run into very few issues, the biggest being that certain functions require canvas access for some reason, I have a different browser for edge-cases where things don’t work and I need to use it.

    Anything Chromium based for me goes out the window immediately, because it is still subject to the whims of Google, as Google owns the Chromium project and does whatever they please. I’m not okay with Google owning the web.

    There is also Orion, which is currently Mac, iOS/iPad OS only but there’s discussions about it coming to Linux and Windows in the future. It’s WebKit based, and the development is funded by the Orion and Kagi subscriptions. Kagi does do a bunch of AI bullshit, and started off as some AI BS company so that’s perhaps something to keep in mind.

  • null_dot@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
    6·
    1 day ago

    I think Floorp is probably worth a mention. Not my thing but some people dig it.

    I don’t really understand the engine independence column. Why are LibreWolf and WaterFox “Other” instead of “Correct”?

    IDK if you’re determined to exclude chrome based browsers, but ungoogled-chromium and thorium might be worth consideration. I run both LibreWolf and ungoogled-chromium as daily drivers because some sites I interact with just arent compatible with Gecko (firefox engine).

    • Takapapatapaka@lemmy.worldOP
      1·
      1 day ago

      Thanks for the floorp mention, I added it.

      Yeah, the engine independence really was not clear. I changed it. I’ll also be adding ungoogled-chromium from another advice, and i’ll look into thorium.

  • woelkchen@lemmy.world
    61·
    1 day ago

    Engine Independence is based on the engine used : Chromium is “bad”, Firefox based is “correct” and others are good.

    That doesn’t make sense. If people leave Firefox for a Firefox fork and eventually Firefox may go down, all its forks are fucked as well. So these browsers don’t have Engine Independence.

    • Takapapatapaka@lemmy.worldOP
      2·
      1 day ago

      Yes, it’s just to make the difference between Chromium (dependent on already bad dependency) and Firefox based (dependent on maybe bad dependency in the future). I agree that both are technically at the same level of straight up independence which is bad, its just to use the 3-tier notation

      • woelkchen@lemmy.world
        10·
        1 day ago

        Why would the forks be fucked as well?

        Because nobody but Mozilla is developing the actual rendering engine. A fork that only changes a few defaults, the branding, and pre-installs uBlock is not a proper fork that can live on without the originating project developing.

          • 001Guy001@lemm.eeEnglish
            3·
            1 day ago

            The issue is, do they have the know-how for developing/maintaining a browser/engine?

            If they manage to get ex-Firefox devs on board then they might be fine, but otherwise if they’re on their own then that’s like asking electricians and painters to build/maintain an entire house. They might not have the knowledge/experience to do so.

            • atro_city@fedia.io
              1·
              1 day ago

              They should be able to build up the expertise, but I see your point. Hopefully we’ll get proper firefox alternatives in the future.

        • Dojan@lemmy.world
          21·
          1 day ago

          The problems with Firefox isn’t Gecko, it’s the data harvesting, advertising ID, and selling of data that’s a problem. LibreWolf patches that all that crap out. It’s tenable for now, but it’s very possible that Mozilla will take things further in the future.

          It’s nowhere near as fucked as Chromium is.

          • woelkchen@lemmy.world
            2·
            1 day ago

            I get that but unless I’m missed news about that, LibreWolf developers do not contribute to Gecko.

            Mozilla relies on affiliate ID use for web searches etc. for revenue which then funds development. If everyone moves over to LibreWolf, all that funding would break away.

            LibreWolf etc. need to find a way to contribute to Gecko development to be sustainable. I don’t have a good idea for how to best achieve this.

  • dirtySourdough@lemmy.world
    2·
    1 day ago

    I haven’t seen mention of duckduckgo in this thread or related ones. I use it regularly and I don’t have too many issues with it. Anyone aware of concerns with it?

    • Takapapatapaka@lemmy.worldOP
      2·
      22 hours ago

      Never heard of the browser even though the search engine is my main one across all devices.

      I’ll try to add it tomorrow if you use it without big issues, mentioning the controversy with microsoft products pointed out in the comments.