Ok, I have an interest in a good faith conversation and realllllly hope we can do so about one of the “What This Isn’t” sections.
Please, bear with me if there is some obvious context that I am missing and understand I’m genuinely asking I’m good faith.
“A place for people who are straight and cis. Really can’t emphasize this one enough. I don’t care how nefarious or well-intentioned you are, you also need to be LGBTQIA+ in some way or another.”
This seems exclusionary to an entire group of allies and people who may find the ability to recognize something in the folks taking part in that community that allows them to be their true selves. It also feels a touch damning personally as someone who strives to practice tolerance and exceptance as a matter of course.
Is this in jest to keep with the villain motif? Is it a brand of humor and irony that I’m not privy to as a person outside of the community? Should I just accept its gate keeping as empowerment and move on?
I also understand you are likely not the author of the manifesto and not beholden to it’s message nor owe me an explanation. This is genuinely a question to expand my understanding of a world outside of my own as a (you guessed it) cis, 40 year old, white gun owner in America.
I am more than happy to engage in good faith! Though, please excuse me if some of my commentary is provocative. That is, in a very deliberate way, part of the ethos.
This seems exclusionary to an entire group of allies
That’s intentional, because queer villainy is fundamentally about the building community amid the shared struggle of outcasts rather than bridging the gap between outcasts and wider society.
We have no desire to integrate, to debate the merits of tolerance under an intolerant regime, or to seek acceptance from those with normative perspectives. Our existence stands in direct contravention of those norms and we will not apologize for rebelling against them.
Is this in jest to keep with the villain motif?
No, it’s fully sincere. Queer Villain Pride is a non-cisheteronormative space. Allies can be allies and as individuals we welcome whatever support is offered, but only queer people can be queer villains.
Is it a brand of humor and irony that I’m not privy to as a person outside of the community?
There’s an aspect of that, but it’s mostly centered around our self-styling as villains and the irony inherent to finding power and a sense of aesthetic identity in one’s exclusion from “polite” society. “Evil” but only in the narrowest sense of rebellion against an intolerable status quo.
Should I just accept its gate keeping as empowerment and move on?
That’s likely the healthiest response. Queer Villain Pride isn’t an organized group with membership rolls and the like, there’s nothing preventing a straight cis person from pretending to be one of us other than their own sense of hypocrisy.
Thank you so much for the breakdown. I feel genuinely educated about something new and fascinating.
The concept of intentional exclusion sounds parallel to my experience as a metal head since childhood. There are times when we are the flavor of the day and others where we are being literally chased out of town (good times touring Utah with a band called fuck god in the face immediately after September 11, lol). But it is always a community that welcomes with a bit of gatekeeping. Sometimes a precious thing needs to be polished with a sneer.
The perspective on allyship is also interesting. I am never quite sure where to state my stance without appearing cloy or pandering. There’s an easy line between honesty and rainbow capitalism but it blurs a bit when you’re an individual who empathetically wants everyone to be able, safe and comfortable being the version of themselves they feel inside. Again, I think there’s another parallel between our communities.
The point on humor/irony or “evil” as you framed it is fun as well. In my simple understanding it’s akin to a statement of empowerment much the same as being a bad bitch. Love it. Be the Dr Evil you want to see in the world. Cpt Hammers be damned. (Not that a villain needs permission). I hope one day the status quo catches up to your virtue and you are all able to find new paths of decadent evil to engage in.
Cheers to that community. I will admire from afar and keep my mouth shut about it. Lest I spoil the delicious villainy for my own hetero purposes. But I will still perform in a mask and cape on stage at a crummy metal venue and raise a mental toast in our shared existence.
The point on humor/irony or “evil” as you framed it is fun as well. In my simple understanding it’s akin to a statement of empowerment much the same as being a bad bitch. Love it. Be the Dr Evil you want to see in the world. Cpt Hammers be damned. (Not that a villain needs permission). I hope one day the status quo catches up to your virtue and you are all able to find new paths of decadent evil to engage in.
Honestly, I had to come back and respond on the last bit of this specifically, because your well-wishing really hits at the heart of my personal feelings on the matter:
As a person-of-villainous-character, the ultimate apotheosis I seek is to not be merely defeated, but vanquished utterly by the absolution of obsolecence.
As long as queer folks are othered, we will always be villainized and in so doing the queer villain identity will be perpetuated. Those who imagine themselves heroes for opposing the existence or dignity of LGBTQIA+ people cannot reject us in any meaningful sense, for queer people exist regardless and it is their opposition that makes us villains.
So, let us take pride in their scorn and wear their shame as a badge of honor until the day that there is no more scorn and shame to be found.
It’s a pride flag specifically for villainous and/or villain-coded queers: https://distressedegg.fun/qvp
Ok, I have an interest in a good faith conversation and realllllly hope we can do so about one of the “What This Isn’t” sections.
Please, bear with me if there is some obvious context that I am missing and understand I’m genuinely asking I’m good faith.
“A place for people who are straight and cis. Really can’t emphasize this one enough. I don’t care how nefarious or well-intentioned you are, you also need to be LGBTQIA+ in some way or another.”
This seems exclusionary to an entire group of allies and people who may find the ability to recognize something in the folks taking part in that community that allows them to be their true selves. It also feels a touch damning personally as someone who strives to practice tolerance and exceptance as a matter of course.
Is this in jest to keep with the villain motif? Is it a brand of humor and irony that I’m not privy to as a person outside of the community? Should I just accept its gate keeping as empowerment and move on?
I also understand you are likely not the author of the manifesto and not beholden to it’s message nor owe me an explanation. This is genuinely a question to expand my understanding of a world outside of my own as a (you guessed it) cis, 40 year old, white gun owner in America.
I am more than happy to engage in good faith! Though, please excuse me if some of my commentary is provocative. That is, in a very deliberate way, part of the ethos.
That’s intentional, because queer villainy is fundamentally about the building community amid the shared struggle of outcasts rather than bridging the gap between outcasts and wider society.
We have no desire to integrate, to debate the merits of tolerance under an intolerant regime, or to seek acceptance from those with normative perspectives. Our existence stands in direct contravention of those norms and we will not apologize for rebelling against them.
No, it’s fully sincere. Queer Villain Pride is a non-cisheteronormative space. Allies can be allies and as individuals we welcome whatever support is offered, but only queer people can be queer villains.
There’s an aspect of that, but it’s mostly centered around our self-styling as villains and the irony inherent to finding power and a sense of aesthetic identity in one’s exclusion from “polite” society. “Evil” but only in the narrowest sense of rebellion against an intolerable status quo.
That’s likely the healthiest response. Queer Villain Pride isn’t an organized group with membership rolls and the like, there’s nothing preventing a straight cis person from pretending to be one of us other than their own sense of hypocrisy.
Thank you so much for the breakdown. I feel genuinely educated about something new and fascinating.
The concept of intentional exclusion sounds parallel to my experience as a metal head since childhood. There are times when we are the flavor of the day and others where we are being literally chased out of town (good times touring Utah with a band called fuck god in the face immediately after September 11, lol). But it is always a community that welcomes with a bit of gatekeeping. Sometimes a precious thing needs to be polished with a sneer.
The perspective on allyship is also interesting. I am never quite sure where to state my stance without appearing cloy or pandering. There’s an easy line between honesty and rainbow capitalism but it blurs a bit when you’re an individual who empathetically wants everyone to be able, safe and comfortable being the version of themselves they feel inside. Again, I think there’s another parallel between our communities.
The point on humor/irony or “evil” as you framed it is fun as well. In my simple understanding it’s akin to a statement of empowerment much the same as being a bad bitch. Love it. Be the Dr Evil you want to see in the world. Cpt Hammers be damned. (Not that a villain needs permission). I hope one day the status quo catches up to your virtue and you are all able to find new paths of decadent evil to engage in.
Cheers to that community. I will admire from afar and keep my mouth shut about it. Lest I spoil the delicious villainy for my own hetero purposes. But I will still perform in a mask and cape on stage at a crummy metal venue and raise a mental toast in our shared existence.
Have a fantastic day my friend!
Solidarity, my friend! I’m always happy to share with open minds such as yours!
Honestly, I had to come back and respond on the last bit of this specifically, because your well-wishing really hits at the heart of my personal feelings on the matter:
As a person-of-villainous-character, the ultimate apotheosis I seek is to not be merely defeated, but vanquished utterly by the absolution of obsolecence.
As long as queer folks are othered, we will always be villainized and in so doing the queer villain identity will be perpetuated. Those who imagine themselves heroes for opposing the existence or dignity of LGBTQIA+ people cannot reject us in any meaningful sense, for queer people exist regardless and it is their opposition that makes us villains.
So, let us take pride in their scorn and wear their shame as a badge of honor until the day that there is no more scorn and shame to be found.
Had to come back and share a comic that hit me pretty hard recently:
https://www.tumblr.com/welldrawnfish/746506639642951681/to-be-trans-is-to-change-for-the-better
Very cool. Thanks for sharing.