I am noticing a rise in Holocaust denial with the rising anti-Zionism coming out of the Israel-Palestine conflict. Many of these YouTubers, tiktokers, and podcasters point to the writings of David Irving as proof. I know he is a holocaust denier and an idiot, but I would like to read it so I could point out the exact flaws in Irving’s “evidence” and stop getting the comment “You haven’t even read it!”. I also don’t want to send a penny to this author, but also don’t want to break the law in getting access to it.

How would you go about this situation?

  • jeffw@lemmy.worldM
    61·
    3 days ago

    Download a book? Illegally? Online? Through a popular torrent website?

    I would never do such an illegal and terrible thing!!

      • cecilkorik@lemmy.caEnglish
        121·
        3 days ago

        Yeah that would be bad. I think we can agree that if there’s one thing that’s even more important than the ideology of an author, it’s definitely capitalism, which is conveniently not an ideology at all, just one of the fundamental laws of the universe. That’s why it’s important to not pirate things for ideological reasons.

    • Mariemarion@lemm.ee
      3·
      2 days ago

      Dunno how it works where you are, but I (author) get money from library books. Much less than when a reader buys it (duh), but it pays for nice Christmas presents.

      • Apepollo11@lemmy.world
        9·
        3 days ago

        In the UK, certainly. It’s not the library’s job to censor what the borrowers want to read, even if it’s David Icke.

        • Zealousideal_Fox_900@lemmy.dbzer0.com
          3·
          2 days ago

          In Australia too. I was in Gatton, Queensland, at their Library, and they had signs up warning people to basically go pound sand, the library is not a censorship authority, and that they will not remove books based on “religious morals”, in the LGBT pride section, and a similar sign, lacking the morals bit in some of their conspiracy theory books. And Gold Coast Libraries stocks some of the weirdest conspiracy theory mags in the planet.

    • dhork@lemmy.worldEnglish
      51·
      3 days ago

      Furthermore, since it’s very likely that this author is not going to make really complex points, you could just go to the library, skim through it for an hour or two, and take notes on the two or three points worth quoting. (Or go all old-school and make photocopies of a few pages…). This way there is no record of your use of this book anywhere

  • Apepollo11@lemmy.world
    28·
    3 days ago

    You could just buy the book second-hand. Authors don’t get any of that money, and you’ll be able to get it for much cheaper than new.

  • Shotgun_Alice@lemmy.world
    6·
    2 days ago

    Piracy, maybe see if Internet archive has any of his writings. I would just try to find a source where I didn’t have to pay for it.

  • Dearth@lemmy.world
    11·
    3 days ago

    Buy it from a used book store. He won’t get any money from it and you’ll support a local small business

  • Andy@slrpnk.net
    111·
    3 days ago

    I think people overthink spending money on things they don’t support. I think stealing it is justified, but If you’re doing academic studies or learning how to deprogram people, go ahead and buy a Nazi’s book if you have to.

    That said, if you’re looking to argue with Holocaust deniers, trying to defeat them by studying their arguments is a classic blunder.

    Conspiratorial thinking is rooted in social maladies, and attachment to a theory is a downstream effect. You can no more talk a Holocaust denier out of their belief with evidence than you can fix a broken water main by sand-bagging the street. If you’re trying to deprogram someone, you’ve got to learn how to get them to open up about the background experiences that led them to look for these answers and then usually find ways to help them find alternate communities that obviate their need for the conspiracy in a way that at least feels self-directed.

    It’s a much slower process, but if that’s what you want to do, read up on that and don’t bother wasting money on Irving’s book.

  • voracitude@lemmy.world
    192·
    3 days ago

    Ugh, of course those people would point to any source that supports their current claim, without vetting the source itself. They’ll even tell you that of course they don’t support antisemitism, while spouting that antisemitic Irving shit all day, and that’s okay because they pick and choose only what they agree with out of the rhetoric. As though they couldn’t find sources that support their point without the concomitant antisemitism.

    First and foremost, then, I’d go about this by not denying the genocide in Gaza and not saying stuff such as “I bet you love Palestine” like it’s a pejorative, spacecadet.

    My second point would be to recognise that there is no moral or ethical reason not to pirate Irving’s works. If you were able to find it at a library, it would be there because someone paid a publisher for the copy and likely some kind of library license. Some of that goes to Irving. There is no way to deny him profit and acquire his work legally. So, pirate it. Fuck that guy.

  • solsangraal@lemmy.zipEnglish
    14·
    3 days ago

    https://annas-archive.org/search?q=david+irving

    edit: on the ebooks topic, i’ve had a pretty good experience with the kobo libra color ereader along with calibre, but it’s a miserable experience trying to read graphic novels on it-- any recommendations (that are not amazon/apple/android/google) for an ereader that can do graphics well?

    • scintilla@lemm.ee
      2·
      2 days ago

      If you’re looking for a color e-reader the unfortunate truth is that they are just not there yet. The best on available is not really that much better than the Libra color since most are using the same technology as it.

      There are a few RLCD devices that are available but from my understanding they aren’t very well reviewed and basically habe to be outside to be used without a backlight.

    • Keeponstalin@lemmy.world
      11·
      3 days ago

      I think Good E-reader on YouTube has the most in depth reviews to find the one you’re looking for