Removed by mod
Ban flavored vapes, switch to cigarettes & cigars. 👍
Disposable vapes should be banned, single use batteries are a crime against nature
Ive seen a single use vape that has a touch screen on it and you can connect to your phone. What a colossal waste of resources.
I watched a video of Guy who collected a ton of them off the ground and built a USB power bank with them. They were rechargeable li on batteries. It is crazy.
I smoke flavored eliquid. I don’t want you to choose what I can and can’t do. I’m not a kid and I know the risks.
Come up with some actual improvements instead of pushing everything into the underground. Like actually start to punishing people that sell to kids. Smh
Lower home values would be a popular policy to focus on, instead of trying to moralize while innocent people suffer.
Eh, unhealthy habits do have a cost to society if you end up getting cancer and then we all have to pay for your treatment.
Although people who drink too much also don’t get a new liver if they need it, so maybe people who smoke should just forfeit the right to cancer treatment.
Smokers and drinkers pay way more tax.
If they want to ban flavored vapes, they’re not “anti-smoking” groups - they’re anti-vaping groups and thus pro-smoking groups.
A similar point to be made, we tried this style of legislation in Australia.
Under the guise this was for the publics interest, the only ‘legal’ vapes you can buy in the country now are manufactured by Phillip Morris International and other big tobacco companies.
The blackmarket continues to thrive and with it organised crime grows, have yet to see a pharmacy that stocks ‘legal’ vapes.
Police in my local area are either paid off or get black market tobacco products for free to turn a blind eye to this issue, can’t imagine thats limited to my area only.
I’m all for regulation around nicotine products but I sure as shit wouldn’t trust a pollie to make decent legislation around it at this point in time.
Huh.
I thought about going into all of that, but at this point in the US it’s still mostly speculative, since they haven’t gotten the bans in place yet, and these pretentios fucksticks would never believe it anyway.
I didn’t know that it’s actually happened in Australia. That’s unfortunate, but it’ll provide me with an example in the future.
It’s a fairly standard corporate move though. The biggest corporations lobby for a bunch of restrictions and requirements on their own industry because they’re in a position to meet them, but they’ll serve as a barrier to entry for potential competition.
So it’s possible - arguably even likely - that these self-righteous asshats crying about the evil tobacco companies are actially effectively (or even literally) working for those very companies.
Which is just another reason why I have nothing but scorn and disdain for them.
Eh, their argument is that children vaping leads to nicotine addiction leads to smoking. It’s not a great argument, but it’s not entirely without merit. Someone who is using vaping as a more healthy alternative to smoking is already accustomed to the flavor of cigarettes. Flavored vapes aren’t necessary for the smoker to switch.
Nicotine juice has been flavored from the very start. Way back in the day when premixed juices didn’t even exist and vapers - who were pretty much exclusively smokers looking for a safer alternative - had to buy propylene glycol and nicotine extract and mix it themselves, we also bought flavoring, because the simple fact of the matter is that unflavored nicotine juice doesn’t taste like cigarettes - it tastes sorr of like hand sanitizer mixed with ear wax.
This whole uproar about flavored vapes is a bizarre fiction being promoted by busybody assholes and idiots - by crusading fuckwads using something they self-evidently know absolutely nothing about to feed their desperate and pathetic need to feel self-righteous.
After thirty years of trying and failing to quit smoking, vaping is almost certainly the only reason I’m alive today, and these foul busybody shitbags want to ruin that for me and everyone else in the same position, and bluntly, fuck them. They’re fucking scum.
You got it right!
I went from Skoal to those home-brew vape juices when…about 2010 or 11. Hardly vaped, just put it on a pad under my lip.
Hated the taste of burning cigarettes, loved some of those fruit flavours. Finally my drug tasted good. Flavour for an old man, not the kids.
Quit 3 years ago and still crave. Horrible time. Quit alcohol 15 years ago with less problems. But quitting is just terrible, no matter the drug.
Somebody who hasn’t struggled with addiction doesn’t get much cred in these discussions, from me.
Yeah, maybe we should focus on preventing addiction in the first place.
Somehow.
I kind of love how you acknowledge how addictive nicotine is, yet can’t fathom tobacco companies, the same people who lied to their customers for decades to keep their industry afloat, making products specifically to entice new users at an easily suggestible stage in their life.
It’s not that I “can’t fathom” it as that I know that it’s complete snd total bullshit.
Tobacco companies didn’t invent vsping - ordinary people did. And tobacco companies didn’t originate the idea of flavoring it - the same ordinary people did. We did it because we prefer it that way.
And then years later, some bunch of self-righteous twats who know absolutely nothing about yhe actial history of ot come stumbling along and start blathering a bunch of fucking nonsense about the evil tobacvo companies flavoring juice to enticevkids.
Motherfucker - I was flavoring juice myself when tobacco companies didn’t even know vaping existed - when it was just a handful of people on a forum experimenting with attaching homemade nichrome coils to modified flashlights.
So don’t fucking presume to tell me what I can or can’t “fathom.”
So, if can only assume that you don’t believe tobacco companies did the other things they did because North Americans were growing, drying, and smoking tobacco for thousands of years before those companies came into existence.
Everything you described is what happens when niche hobbies become mainstream. That doesn’t mean malicious organizations can’t see the potential for profit and engage in predatory practices. And it doesn’t mean that something that wasn’t particularly harmful to society can’t become harmful when it goes from a niche activity to something mainstream and commercialized.
Care to explain how your vaping experience would be lessened if the device didn’t look like a children’s toy? Or why they should be allowed to be advertised on TV? Also mentioned in those links, about 15% of youths vape with unflavored products. If they can do it these days, I’m sure you’ll be able to handle it, too.
Sweet response that addressed almost nothing they said and only chose to condescend to them. Are cigarettes unflavored? Because I sure preferred that taste and only continue to not smoke because I enjoy vaping fruity flavours, and know that it’s better for me than smoking. And hell yeah, let’s get rid of one use devices and bring back RDAs, RDTAs and all the other stuff that initially helped me quit smoking, and then let’s further legislate and ban the sale of vapes from gas stations and crack down on vape shops who sell to minors. Bet you that works a lot better than anything you’d suggest.
We did it because we prefer it that way.
And then the people whose evils you’re screeching about monetized the shit out of it, specifically to hook children.
Again.
The industry is not “a handful of people on a forum,” anymore. Elementary schools have anti-vaping policies. The thing you keep calling people monsters for talking about, actually fucking happened.
This whole thread is fucking wild.
Yeah, I was waiting to reply with, “If you prioritize your convenience over harm to children, just own it.” But all I got was downvotes.
The shit this guy spits at petitioners is beyond belief, but the fact everyone’s with him is incomprehensible. All over some shit he acknowledges he can just do in his kitchen, without commercial support, using the drugs nobody’s talking about banning.
Meanwhile any implication of ‘would you have wanted someone to prevent your addiction?’ goes totally unanswered.
Well, a part of me just wants to watch the world burn, and this and posts like it sate that desire. It’s also a good reminder to use Voyager’s tags so I remember this guy if we cross paths again.
I think there is a big difference in the appeal of vapes to younger audiences when we account for the flavors. Tobacco and other boring flavors are great for quiting. An arrary of sweet and fruity flavors make people want to try more flavors and also vape more frequently because the brain is itching for that hit of sweetness as well as hits of nicotine.
Fair enough, I’ve never vaped. I quit smoking cold turkey 20 years ago, before vapes became popular. Quitting was fucking hell, and I don’t begrudge anyone whatever tools or transitions help them manage the process. I never recommend anyone quit cold turkey, because I know first hand what a nightmare it was.
My only point is that the manufacturers of nicotine products do not have your best interests at heart. They want to keep you addicted, and get new people addicted. If they could make a product that delivered nicotine and tickled your genitals at the same time, they would.
With less appealing flavors, it might help people like yourself reduce your nicotine intake. Smell and taste are strongly linked to the neurological pathways for pleasure and memory.
When I smoked, a friend of mine would frequently smoke cloves, and so when I was quitting the smell of vanilla or spices would make me crave a cigarette. Associating nicotine with certain flavors will make you crave nicotine when you smell or taste those flavors. Making it less pleasurable over time would reduce cravings.
Either way, if your goal is to stop, then flavors aren’t helpful.
With vaping, and self mixing your own juice, you can control the nicotine content. I found it very useful in weaning myself off cigarettes, primarily the nicotine. I also found it helpful in not eating sweet junk food. Was well on my way to also ditching vaping when the Australian gov’t decided to blanket ban Vaping. I’m back at square one, craving sugar and nicotine. sigh
I did agree with some of the controls put in - not in public/shared spaces, not for kids, etc. But a total ban? That only creates a black market and a shiny for kids who want to rebel.
Vaping is a generational tragedy for everyone except relics like you. If not for vapes then smoking would have basically just ended. Rate of new smokers were plummeting. Aaand then some tobacco subsidiaries got their hooks into kids of all ages.
They didn’t do it by promising the taste of hand sanitizer and earwax.
And you’re getting big mad that they want nicotine to taste like nicotine, rather than bubblegum. We’re not even talking about banning nicotine juices. Just the flavors. Y’know, the same way you can still buy cigarettes; just not the kind that taste like mint. Vaping beats smoking by such a huge margin that essentially nobody is talking about banning vaping. Everyone knows it would be self-defeating. So why are you being such an edgelord about this strawman idea that everyone’s gonna switch to cigarettes that cost more, taste worse, and physically hurt to use?
Why would vaping have to lead to smoking for nicotine addiction to be bad?
Going from smoking to vaping is a massive improvement. Basically zero downsides.
Starting a nicotine addiction is still detrimental to your health.
They’re anti-tobacco.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synecdoche
Unless you think they’re hypocrites for enjoying bacon.
Yes, I think they’re hypocrites.
More to the point though, I think they’re toxic assholes - vile, loathsome, uncaring pieces of shit who hide behind an ill-fitting mask of health advocacy to feed their own pathetic and destructive need for self-affirmation through self-righteousness, and there isn’t a boot in the world big enough to deliver the swift kick in the ass they so desperately need.
pat pat
That’s nice, dear. Go play.
Ah… that’s right - I left out “sanctimonious.”
Oh I’m sorry, should we treat your violent fantasies as an actionable threat?
Calling people big meanie doo-doo-heads makes a dry reading difficult.
I didn’t call anyone a big mean doo-doo-head.
I called anti-vaping crusaders, among other things, “toxic assholes - vile, loathsome, uncaring pieces of shit who hide behind an ill-fitting mask of health advocacy to feed their own pathetic and destructive need for self-affirmation through self-righteousness.”
And I meant and mean every single, carefully chosen word of it. That’s not just a random insult hurled in someone’s general direction, but a very deliberate and carefully considered description of what I’ve come to see as defining characteristics of a particularly noxious and loathsome group of people.
Libel tends to be deliberate, yes. You’re inventing motive and projecting it as hard as you can.
While calling for physical violence. If that’s not just banter, please eat a ban.
Meanwhile: flavored cigarettes had this same damn argument, for the same damn reason. You know addiction is hell - why don’t you care enough about stopping new addicts, to put up with nicotine that tastes like nicotine?
Why not ban both? There are nuanced approaches you could take that wouldn’t immediately force every addict to quit cold turkey, or turn to the black market.
Flavoured vapes (except menthol and smoke flavour) is illegal in Denmark, and guess what? Everyone and their mother vapes illegal vapes. The prices has actually somewhat gone down after the ban plus today I see kids vaping everywhere, didn’t do that as much five years ago.
Banning is not and will never be part of a “nuanced approach” to anything. It’s the approach preferred by shallow, self-righteous, authoritarian shitheads.
And there are likely a dozen things you did today that are more harmful than vaping. The only thing that makes them any different is that they’re not things that have become focal points for shallow, self-righteous, authoritarian shitheads
[Imperial Tobacco Canada] also supports the federal government’s regulations to limit flavours to tobacco, mint and menthol
Tobacco companies and nanny state crusaders: United in wanting to make vaping less tasty.
Wait, they’re trying to ban flavoring but still allowing Mint? Last I checked, Mint was quite a popular ice cream flavor.
If they really cared about the youth they would also ban flavoured alcohol
They should only allow you to buy little bottles just like with edibles.
Grey market is king, I’ve seen a 3000mg edible. Sadly I didn’t have a week off work so I couldn’t buy it…
What counts as “flavored alcohol”?
I think everclear and vodka are basically the only two that aren’t typically flavored with something
All of it. Don’t fucking ban stuff for adults; monitor your children.
What, like you can’t buy vodka and orange juice at the same time?
These things are not comparable. They do not function the same way.
I don’t think this would apply to mixing.
I mean nobody is going to ban buying a pregnancy test at the same time as a clothes hanger.
would wine (the drink and cooking ingredient) be considered flavoured?
Yes.
Only pure alcohol is allowed.
Damn, no more mint mouthwash :(
I would imagine that anyone in favor of one is also likely in fvaor of the other.
You would imagine wrong because it’s not about logical consistency with these people.
The Government of Canada and Health Canada created this mess all on their own, and here’s how it happened …
On Jan 1, 2021 the feds enacted new vape laws based on Child Resistant packaging. The committee who recommended the restrictions had found a single instance from the early '00s of a US child who had died from consuming vape liquid. From that the committee decided that all vaping products (including juice, RTAs, RTDs, etc) had to be childproof. Now it’s pretty easy to make vape juice containers childproof … but not so easy to make tanks childproof.
Right along side of that are the disposable vapes who were making headway into the market. And ofc they are childproof (concerning the liquid anyway).
It didn’t take long for the more expensive mods and tanks to disappear from the market, leaving only the cheap and easily accessable disposables … which kids can afford and often have access to.
So instead of fixing the current laws the gov’t has instead decided to add to them … leading to restrictions on flavours.
It’s interesting that cannabis oil vapes (side note i find these worse in almost every way to a dry herb vape and don’t understand the popularity) almost always have disposable tanks attached towith reusable batteries in contrast to nicotine almost always fully disposable.
What do you want to be banned…the smoking or the nicotine?
All the junk from burning plant matter kills you slowly. Nicotine in small amounts is horribly addictive; that is what keeps the smoking going. Or vaping. Or any other tobacco. I speak from decades of experience, I used them all, from 12 years old to 77. Quitting the nicotine was hell, and the vehicle did not matter.
So ban the damn nicotine and be done with it. Poo on all the people making money out of it, they are drug dealers.
At this point the political will just dies.
Nicotine is somewhat addictive. It’s not that bad on its own. Quitting nicotine vapes was about as hard as quitting caffeine for me.
I believe in an adult’s right to choose, and harm reduction. The government isn’t here to tell us what’s morally right and wrong, it’s here to define our rights and privileges. It’s fine to restrict where one can smoke or vape because that involves other people. I think it’s a waste of government resources to try and tell people what they “ought” to be doing with their own bodies (because they will never succeed, and it’s not their job.)
Harm reduction means preventing addiction. Flavored tobacco products have always been about getting people addicted early - because that’s when it works. That’s when this highly addictive drug creates dependency. Especially if taken in high doses with rapid absorption… which is downright pleasant, if it tastes like candy, instead of licking an ashtray.
What do you want to be banned…the smoking or the nicotine?
In this case I saw the news article and I wanted to hear people’s thoughts on it. I learned a lot from the comments, and appreciate you adding your perspective, thank you :)
Holy fuck I hate you nanny staters.
Back to illigal unregulated products then. You know, the stuff that killed a handful of people a couple years ago…
Boy, we’re hitting the big issues here, guys
Go fuck yourself. Now. Fucking cunt cheese nanny state wastes of fucking skin.
Kindly find a porto potty, eat everything inside of it, and die in fucking agony. Please.
Deep breaths, in and out. And once you’re calmed down, please consider why you want someone to die in agony over watermelon flavored vapor
There’s an easy solution here: anyone born after 2007 is hereby banned from purchasing nicotine, period.
Separate laws are intolerable.
Only a Sith deals in absolutes.
That’s an absolute.
And also from a children’s movie.
Imo if vaping is just meant just for the nicotine fix then yeah ban all flavored Vapes and just leave the unflavored ones.
If it is supposed to be fun child enticing air candy then maybe you need to check your morals and invent a better product and we ban all nicotine from the market altogether.
I tried flavored vapes without nicotine once. I quickly lost interest.
This just in: only children enjoy flavor.
