In a global capitalist order, you don’t get to strengthen your democracy without achieving a mostly independent economy first (or somewhat simultaneously.) One that produces the vast majority of the commodities your people need for their daily lives. If you don’t have that, you’d get subordinated by the large capitalist countries as they run out of value they can extract domestically or elsewhere. For example you’d get sanctioned into investing billions into their economy and buying from it at higher prices instead of investing that domestically. Then your democracy gets fucked because it doesn’t deliver the life improvements its subjects vote for.
This is why you need the union, as not a single European country is sufficiently self-sufficient. The union isn’t sufficiently self-sufficient either but it can get there faster and easier than individual countries. And it doesn’t have to develop an unaccountable elite. Mind you it already has one. The opposite, it has to … eat it … in order to make the job easier by stopping the siphoning and misallocation of resources needed for development.
I totally agree, but I don’t think that’s what is being proposed. There is more than one way to become the ‘big cube’, and we should seek for one that embodies the freedom and peace of Europe, not try to imitate that which has been tried unsuccessfully.
China & US have not paid the same price. I believe their paths aren’t required to reach your goal of strengthening democracy and freedom. The alternative appears to be the plight of Venezuela, however.
The Chinese people sure feel oppressed by “elites beyond democratic control”:
And no, people aren’t just “too afraid to share their real thoughts”, there are studies specifically designed to counter that potential tendency and they find the same results.
@cornishon@plyth it would be naive to say the Chinese political system doesn’t have any points we could learn from, but that article smells like a steamy pile of progressive-washed dung.
If we have to pay the same price for being as big as China and the US, would it be worth it?
Having an elite that is beyond democratic control is not worth fighting for. We could as well join one of the big cubes.
We should try to strengthen democracy and freedom and find ways to succeed with that.
In a global capitalist order, you don’t get to strengthen your democracy without achieving a mostly independent economy first (or somewhat simultaneously.) One that produces the vast majority of the commodities your people need for their daily lives. If you don’t have that, you’d get subordinated by the large capitalist countries as they run out of value they can extract domestically or elsewhere. For example you’d get sanctioned into investing billions into their economy and buying from it at higher prices instead of investing that domestically. Then your democracy gets fucked because it doesn’t deliver the life improvements its subjects vote for.
This is why you need the union, as not a single European country is sufficiently self-sufficient. The union isn’t sufficiently self-sufficient either but it can get there faster and easier than individual countries. And it doesn’t have to develop an unaccountable elite. Mind you it already has one. The opposite, it has to … eat it … in order to make the job easier by stopping the siphoning and misallocation of resources needed for development.
I totally agree, but I don’t think that’s what is being proposed. There is more than one way to become the ‘big cube’, and we should seek for one that embodies the freedom and peace of Europe, not try to imitate that which has been tried unsuccessfully.
China & US have not paid the same price. I believe their paths aren’t required to reach your goal of strengthening democracy and freedom. The alternative appears to be the plight of Venezuela, however.
The Chinese people sure feel oppressed by “elites beyond democratic control”:
And no, people aren’t just “too afraid to share their real thoughts”, there are studies specifically designed to counter that potential tendency and they find the same results.
If you’re willing to understand WHY the Chinese people hold those opinions, I can recommend this article: Building Whole-Process People’s Democracy in China.
@cornishon @plyth it would be naive to say the Chinese political system doesn’t have any points we could learn from, but that article smells like a steamy pile of progressive-washed dung.
Why would you say so? What’s the problem with it?
Well said.