Maps and documents recovered from the bodies of Hamas attackers reveal a coordinated plan to target children and take hostages inside an Israeli village near Gaza.

    • demonquark@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      I wouldn’t trust anything “found” by Israeli intelligence. Having said that, according to article, these are plans for:

      Hamas units to surround and infiltrate villages and target places where civilians, including children, gather.

      Which is reasonably close to what happened. Given how direct and quick the strike was, it’s reasonable to assume that plans of that nature exist.

      Then again, October 7th was a a Saturday and a holiday and Hamas attacked early in the morning. If they wanted to kidnap kids, it wouldn’t make sense to target schools.

      TLDR: I dunno. Maybe.

      • danhakimi@kbin.socialOP
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        1 year ago

        Other officials in their leadership said they were confused about the timing.

        The attack was also the 50th anniversary, to the day, of the Yom Kippur war.

    • 4am@lemm.ee
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      1 year ago

      No they absolutely keep their top secret plans printed on hundreds of fliers detailing the atrocities they plan to commit, just in case they’re captured so the whole world learns their “secret” plans that they printed at Kinkos and becomes even more enraged and hits their civilians harder. It’s definitively how real war is done in real life, but I mean obviously by mindless monsters not worthy of the land they’ve continually been forced out of because they’re rabid babykilling Islamic animals hellbent on an antisemitic hell crusade and this map of elementary schools we found totally proves it!

      (Yeah, it’s probably propaganda. Israel is about to/is doing genocide in the spotlight and they need justification)

        • spiderplant@lemm.ee
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          1 year ago

          More than 700 Palestinian children and more than 400 women have been killed in the last 8 days by Israel, this is far from self defence or proportional.

          Edit: Israel has now inflicted over 2000 deaths and injured over 9000 others

            • spiderplant@lemm.ee
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              1 year ago

              A state doesn’t have this right but when we talk about the right to self defence for individuals proportionality is very important. Most countries would not allow you to claim self defence from a mugging if you decapitated the attacker and sent the head to their family.

              Also if you’re both siding a genocide you’re either misinformed or for some reason siding with fascism.

              If you are calling for peace without removing the genocidal state then you are just calling for a continuation of the genocide.

              Palestinians have a right to risist occupation under the Geneva convention. You don’t get to tell them how they should resist a truely horrific situation.

              Israel is breaking international law by occupying and attacking Palestine. But most countries choose to look away and even directly support the genocidal state.

              This is like saying both sides are bad between the SS and resistance fighters because resistance fighters also committed war crimes.

              If you view WW2, Ukraine-Russia war, or SA apartheid as one sided then you are a hypocrite to not apply the same thinking here.

              • danhakimi@kbin.socialOP
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                1 year ago

                Palestinians have a right to risist occupation under the Geneva convention. You don’t get to tell them how they should resist a truely horrific situation.

                Do the Geneva conventions say anything about raping teenage girls as a method of resistance? What do they say about burning babies as a method of resistance? What effect did you think Hamas was going for when they brought a couple hundred Israeli civilians back and didn’t offer or suggest any terms for their release? Would you tie a family together so you could kill them together, if you were in their situation?

                See, because here, I thought that nobody anywhere had the right to target and torture civilians, and that there was no conceivable way that would lead to peace or any concessions that might actually help Palestinian people. Here, I thought that terrorists committing terrorism with the intent of provoking war might be a bad thing, I guess I’m just biased into thinking that burning civilians alive is maybe not the greatest idea.

            • danhakimi@kbin.socialOP
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              1 year ago

              Israel’s collective punishment is objective a war crime by definition.

              Only if you believe it’s collective punishment. I’ve argued that cutting off electricity and similar actions are not intended as punishment at all, it’s intended to reduce the rocket-making capabilities of Hamas and PIJ as they actively use every resource at their disposal to make and fire rockets.

              • spiderplant@lemm.ee
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                1 year ago

                Ah yes grid electricity that is totally necessary for production of explosives and turning off doesn’t disproportionately affect all the people in hospitals that require it to live.

                It absolutely is collective punishment no matter the intent. The general public suffer.

                Way to act like a propogada mouthpiece for a genocidal state.

                • danhakimi@kbin.socialOP
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                  1 year ago

                  Israel supplied about half of Gaza’s electricity. They do not need more than the other half to run a hospital and a desalination plant. Hamas has been stealing all the fuel it can to create rockets and support other offensive capabilities. They aren’t struggling to produce enough electricity because they don’t have the ability to produce enough electricity, they’re struggling because Hamas is literally taking it from them.

                  From Wikipedia, their power comes from:

                  • Gaza’s sole power plant which has a nominal rating of 60–140 MW (figures vary due to degree of operation and damage to the plant) which is reliant on diesel fuel imported via Israel,[33][34]
                  • 125 MW supplied by Israel Electric Corporation (IEC) via 10 power lines, and
                  • 27 MW supplied by Egypt.[35][36]
                  • plus various generators and things throughout Gaza.

                  Power plant use fossil fuels, but Hamas has been stealing the fuel they have reserved, so yes, the power plant is operating below capacity. If they wanted to run the hospital or the desalination plant as badly as they wanted to fire rockets vaguely in the direction of Israel, they would.

                  Way to act like a total dumbass who hasn’t spent more than five minutes researching the situation and refuses to learn.

                  • spiderplant@lemm.ee
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                    1 year ago

                    which is reliant on diesel fuel imported via Israel

                    It wouldn’t be the current blockade by Israel that has caused the fuel shortage?

        • DocCrankenstein@lemm.ee
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          1 year ago

          except the actual wolf is just across the border, launching rockets into civilian areas.

          You do know that Israel has been doing this exact thing to Palestine for decades right?

          I’m sorry I it is bs saying Israel isn’t the aggressor. Which side has more civilian casualties again in this decades long conflict?

    • TokenBoomer@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      It can be both. When your goal is hostages, it makes sense to take the most vulnerable. Children are easier to take and aren’t likely to fight back.

      Edit: Free Palestine 🇵🇸

      • danhakimi@kbin.socialOP
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        1 year ago

        It’s fascinating that you felt the need to edit your comment because just addressing the facts in the present case wasn’t enough. Even though the facts might be true and despicable, you still need to make it clear what side you’re on, you can’t just say what you think is true.

    • PsychedSy@sh.itjust.works
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      1 year ago

      Por que no los dos? Nothing can justify an excessive response. Murdering children on purpose can’t justify more children being murdered.

      • DocCrankenstein@lemm.ee
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        1 year ago

        If both parties are both acting in good faith, but Israel has been doing nothing but making excuses for its wholesale genocide. Their actions make their credibility suspect.

        • danhakimi@kbin.socialOP
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          1 year ago

          what the fuck are you talking about? You’re fucking saying Hamas was acting in good faith?

          My God, this place.

            • danhakimi@kbin.socialOP
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              1 year ago

              I was trying very hard to understand what the fuck you were talking about, which is why I asked.

              if you read your own comment again, you might just notice the sheer lack of grammatical sense.

              If you want people to understand your point, try again.

              • DocCrankenstein@lemm.ee
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                1 year ago

                If you were genuinely asking then apologies for the misunderstanding. Yet the question is one of those “you are prolife? You support killing babies?” type situations.

                I never mentioned Hamas or said they also are acting in good faith, as that isnt the topic called into question.

                Hamas acting in good faith has nothing to do with this. They aren’t the one making claims.

                Israel is the one making the claims here, and the question is if they are making the claim in good faith or trying to justify their genocidal campaign against Palestine.

                It smells like propaganda and Israel has been doing nothing but fishing for an excuse to justify their retaliation, especially with the backlash from other countries.

                • danhakimi@kbin.socialOP
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                  1 year ago

                  I never mentioned Hamas or said they also are acting in good faith, as that isnt the topic called into question.

                  Who are the “both parties” here? You said something about “both parties,” do you remember that?

                  Israel is the one making the claims here, and the question is if they are making the claim in good faith or trying to justify their genocidal campaign against Palestine.

                  I think that’ll be clear enough once the campaign is over and you barely see a blip in the population of Gaza, and they’re really not too concerned with justifying anything on the world stage—the UN seems to be censuring them every damn day already.

                  Also: I don’t think you really need an excuse to go rescue 150+ hostages when the hostage-takers don’t have terms to give them back, I think it’s very clear that Hamas is desperate for the invasion to happen. I’m the furthest thing from a war hawk, but I can’t understand what people want to happen here, you want Netanyahu to fly to Qatar and beg this guy to give back the hostages? Offer for all 9.5 million Israelis to leave in the next week? There’s no way Hamas is giving up those hostages, no way they’re going to stop trying to kill every Jew on the planet. They’re acting in good faith on their stated goals.

                  What more justification do you think Israel actually needs to invade Gaza?

              • DocCrankenstein@lemm.ee
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                1 year ago

                If you were genuinely asking then apologies for the misunderstanding. Yet the question is one of those “you are prolife? You support killing babies?” type situations.

                I never mentioned Hamas or said they also are acting in good faith, as that isnt the topic called into question.

                Hamas acting in good faith has nothing to do with this. They aren’t the one making claims.

                Israel is the one making the claims here, and the question is if they are making the claim in good faith or trying to justify their genocidal campaign against Palestine.

                It smells like propaganda and Israel has been doing nothing but fishing for an excuse to justify their “retaliation” efforts, especially with the backlash from other countries.