• Nemokosch
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      1 month ago

      Thank you for your effort. Not sure if I can incorporate much of your summary but your efficiency - reading the article, following the links and the conversations, watching the video snippets, and being able to write a conclusive summary by the time the (re)post was out for an hour and a half - will inspire me on the way forward.

      • YarrMatey [she/her] @lemmy.dbzer0.com
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        1 month ago

        Lmao. Welcome to lemmy, the place where the radical Marxists live. Here “gay marriage” is just called “marriage” and marriage is not seen as religious or for reproduction. Far-right people are not well tolerated, you know you’ve found one when they unironically call the things they don’t like “woke.” Could anyone take this statement without saying yikes: “I think wokeness is a legitimate ideological problem that is so bizarre to many people (possibly the majority) that you should seriously think whether it’s useful to label everyone far-right who doesn’t roll with it.” And yet it is the master vs main ranting that the author actually regrets.

        Edit: Ahh I see what happened here. This raku community believes in “troll hugging.” So they attract these types, are nice to them no matter what they say, are supposed to not mind the abuse, and when they realize this method does not work and in fact harms everyone around them, hell breaks loose and you get this article. Pro tip: don’t tolerate it in the first place.

        • Nemokosch
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          30 days ago

          Alright then, culture war and all. At least you made it clear that you didn’t care about the actual content at all. That does speed reading up for sure.

          I’m afraid there is nothing to be taken from the comment, then. You got your representation, well done.

          • YarrMatey [she/her] @lemmy.dbzer0.com
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            30 days ago

            You got banned because no one wanted to be around you, there is no nice way to say it. Not just having awful takes, but repeatedly going on rants even after people told you to stop. Whenever someone told you to stop going off-topic and starting what are essentially flame wars, you then started screeching about being silenced. You also bash random people at times about their contributions not being good enough to you, which is uncalled for and toxic. Your article reads like you view yourself as the victim. But you are not one. I am surprised you even made an account just to whine at me on lemmy, which is a leftist social media platform, I’m from one of the anarchist instances even.

            If someone made it clear to you that you made everyone uncomfortable, then maybe you would get it (I am guessing you have trouble reading social cues) but instead they “troll hugged” you until they got sick of it. The “code of conduct violations” (aka bigotry) is why they got rid of you. You can write the best code, but it does not mean people will be willing to work with you. You will not be able to find some magical rule to win and get unbanned like a lawyer in a legal case. It is not stalking either when people don’t want to be associated with your views, let alone their project they have been working on for years. Your views are harmful to people in real life. But you dismiss the very real harm and hand wave it as a “culture war”. That is incredibly messed up.

            It doesn’t matter what anyone says to you, you disregard whatever people say because you just have to be right on whatever subject comes up and you feel personally attacked like the injustice is happening to you. That is exhausting to be around. You should aim to be more empathetic. Picture why the other people were uncomfortable, why they asked you to stop ranting, why they banned you when they are supposed to hug trolls until they feel safe enough to open up and change (supposedly, I maintain that doesn’t work with randos). My solution is to get a therapist, I know that sounds like I’m being mean, but a therapist can literally break this down for you and help you uncover why this happened, all in a safe place. You need to reflect on this. Or you are doomed to keep repeating the same mistakes.

            • Nemokosch
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              30 days ago

              I see you also mention “everyone” doing this and that. This is a fake framing that I particularly wanted to break down. It’s not “everyone”, it’s an enumerable list of people, with an enumerable list of counter-examples, some of them mentioned in the report. I tried to reach really everyone with my post, though, as much, of course, as you can do from exile. After all, nobody has asked, or even told, everyone about the ban itself for starters.

            • Nemokosch
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              30 days ago

              I have no idea what lemmy even is, and I certainly never asked (didn’t even consent to, for what it’s worth) my post to be put here. If you say this is some (self-proclaimed?) leftist social media platform, I’m all the way more baffled what the hell my post is even doing here for starters, or what good it achieves that my post, and by extension me myself, get bantered on terms of culture war, seemingly having no business with the whole story, nor intending to actually look into it.

              With this whole emotional bargaining and trolling: the point is simply that I have got treated unfairly, and I have been insulted on multiple occasions, and you just add to it while preaching about “made someone uncomfortable”. It’s time to take emotional responsibility, not just turn into soldier more and execute order 66. These emotional appeals are completely useless, as you yourself demonstrate, having no problem throwing plain biased garbage at me with little to no regard to the evidence. I offered fairness and I think it’s fairly commonsensical to expect fairness in a broader community context, too.

              I don’t care about your big words about bigotry and all that, the two of us exist in completely different realms and if there is anything I learned, it’s that these online justice fights make no sense and achieve nothing. All I need to do is demonstrate that not everybody thinks like you do - there; my business is done in this regard.

              I’m not trying to get unbanned either - again, just like with you, I have neither any business, nor any reason to assume I could have a meaningful conversation with the people who initiate and enforce these decisions. I did want to make sure to, again, have representation in a case that both deeply affected me personally, and seems quite overboard from a moderate stand point, to the point that I thought there might be others in the broader community (no, not on this lemmy that I didn’t even know about) who see some serious concerns, regardless whether they personally resonate with my position or not.

              Anyway, I can assure you that the same people who played a more or less active role in my ban have already gone miles and miles around the same points. I don’t think about people I don’t even know in terms of “mean” and all that - I do think they are demonstrably unfair and dismissive. Ideally, nobody would have even played my role (and as it can be seen, I wasn’t even the first one, and I wouldn’t know whether they are “bigots” or not) because in an ideal world, people self-reflect first and foremost - but then of course when you have people who are unwilling to reflect on very technical matters without degrading the topic into personal beef, you can either just wait for a miracle to happen for another 20 years, or eventually you become the problem.

              You won’t find me playing a psychoanalyst online. I didn’t join a tea party or a fan club but a technical project with a supposedly common technical goal. Maybe there are some others left in the Raku community who think similarly, maybe not. In any case, I will make sure to stay away from people who cannot distinguish actual substantial relations and online activity, technical projects from clubs or cliques.

  • david_@discuss.tchncs.de
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    1 month ago

    Abstracting from this particular case, I imagine it could help to have an additional IRC channel, named e.g. #raku-debate. Something like this surely has been considered before, but I think the advantages are really significant.

    The purpose would not, of course, be to say: “Anything contentious must go in #raku-debate and has no place in #raku”. It would be a last resort; #raku would continue to be the default place for discussions. But when someone does want to discuss something that others find (in principle or merely at the time) excessively bothersome for the general-purpose channel #raku, then one can say: “please don’t discuss this in this channel,” and still offer this IRC discussion a place inside the official realms of the Raku community.

    It would make it easier on the person who is being told not to discuss their topic in #raku.

    It would make it easier on those moderating #raku.

    It would also make it easier for people who may have something useful to say on the topic, but decide against chiming in out of concern for others in #raku who are already exhausted by the discussion. Heck, I would bet that at times even simple clarification questions don’t get asked for such reasons; which would mean that certain misunderstandings may persist and cause damage when they could have been resolved…

    • Elizabeth MattijsenOPM
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      1 month ago

      Anything contentious must go in #raku-debate and has no place in #raku”.

      Excellent idea. I’ve just created the channel #raku-debate.

      • david_@discuss.tchncs.de
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        1 month ago

        Thanks for creating the channel! As for the question of what has to go in #raku-debate, and what can still be discussed in #raku even if contentious: Ultimately it’ll probably have to be decided through a consensus by the community or steering council. My thinking behind

        The purpose would not, of course, be to say: “Anything contentious must go in #raku-debate and has no place in #raku”.

        is: It makes sense to require that the bulk of any contentious discussion happen in #raku-debate, but in my opinion what should still be allowed in #raku (as long as one doesn’t abuse this) includes:

        • to begin any discussion in #raku (moving to #raku-debate when asked to),
        • to mention the state of a #raku-debate discussion in the main channel from time to time,
        • to ask people from #raku to look at an ongoing or logged discussion and/or to add their opinion.
    • david_@discuss.tchncs.de
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      1 month ago

      So at the core, moderation decisions could better match the usual moderation goal (Namely: not to suppress a topic, but to keep #raku usable for people focussing on programming).