That entire instance is infested with a massive amount of right-wing hate, transphobia, homophobia, and ugly political vitriol under the guise of “allowing free speech”, rising to the same level or worse than lemmygrad (which we have already defederated from for obvious reasons). Please get this garbage off of the “all” page given that the entire instance actively breaks the rules of lemmy.one and is only providing them with a larger platform. I think a few trolls may have already spilled over.
just take a 20 second scroll through this mess or any of the other communities there: https://lemmy.one/c/[email protected]
If a web platform is tolerant without limit, its ability to be tolerant will be destroyed by the intolerant.
In order to maintain a tolerant Lemmyverse, then we must all retain the right to be intolerant of intolerance.
Exploding-heads is an intolerant site not just overrun with, but run BY biggots. You have to cut them out like a cancer before all of Lemmy becomes a site like Voat or Truth Social.
I’m not on your instance, so I don’t get a ton of say, but I would just recommend that part of the Alt-Right’s playbook is getting seen by as many eyes as possible. exploding-heads is trying to find ways to game the federation system and the algorithm to determine “hot” to platform their hate and pipeline people who don’t recognize the dog whistles to their side. Whether you mind or don’t mind seeing the content or can or cannot block the communities and users from over there is immaterial to exploding-heads’s strategy. The point is to get seen that first time.
Further, whether you agree with the above, please consider this: telling vulnerable groups to do their own moderation on an individual level is an inherently privileged stance. Part of the alt-right’s strategy is cyber-bullying. I’m going to focus on the cyber-bullying in this section of this discussion, just under the assumption that people disagree with my stance that exploding-heads is trying to promote a particular political agenda. Whether you agree or disagree on that point is immaterial. There is no denying that exploding-heads users engage in a pattern of cyber-bullying against minority groups. The aim in that case is to cause mental harm to those minority groups. If there’s a pattern, why not address the root cause? That root cause being that exploding-heads is not moderated or administrated to the standards other instances in the federation expect, or even to the standards laid out in their sidebar rules.
Users of the fediverse join the instances they do with particular understandings of the rules and moderation styles that administrators provide to their users in their sidebar and any documents linked from there before signing up. Here are some selected rules from lemmy.one that exploding-heads users break regularly:
No racism, sexism, homophobia, transphobia, xenophobia, or casteism
No incitement of violence or promotion of violent ideologies
No harassment, dogpiling or doxxing of other users
Do not share intentionally false or misleading information
So, please. To the administrators of lemmy.one, consider these points when you make your decision. Let your own users’ voices stand out more. But if you’re a lemmy.one user, please take all of this into consideration as you make your recommendation
Exploding-heads was here years before any of you or the instances you’re on. They were happily sitting there posting and discussing daily about the things that interest them. You might disagree with what they’re talking about, but don’t act like they’re only doing it to spite you.
You redditors came into a space that existed for years before you ever even heard of it, act like you invented it, then act all outraged that there were already people here and their existence is a giant conspiracy theory meant to spite you personally.
You want to defederate from them? Go ahead. That’s the right and power of each instance to choose who to associate with. But quit it with the narcissistic conspiracy theories. A lot of people were chased off of big tech before you, they didn’t just stop existing – they ended up somewhere and often that was the fediverse.
narcissistic conspiracy theories? tf you smokin bro?
I just said they’re a hate ridden cesspool, no conspiracies, it’s just an ugly mess that needs to be contained. No shit they never stopped existing, but they need to be slapped down everywhere they’re seen. Let them keep fleeing and being chased away, they deserve no platform.
The narcissistic conspiracy theory is pretending that exploding-heads exists solely to mess with you personally, and that they just came to exist to mess with you and abuse the communities that only just came to exist about a month ago.
People who disagree with you exist. It’s not some conspiracy theory meant to harm you personally.
yeah no kidding people who disagree exist. But it’s not like seeing alt-right communities pop up and then try to spread tendrils of hate into every community that they can reach is new phenomenon. It was on Facebook- it was on Reddit- it was on Twitter. They progressively get kicked out from every one of them. There’s no conspiracy, it’s a repeatable trend. So let’s start building a wall around the hate here as well.
One important thing to remember is that they were not actually kicked out of any of those platforms, the most extreme communities and people on some platforms were banned but generally the people are still there. And they come out of the woodwork if in any way you or the communities you run are visible in things that they hate.
But the lesson in this is that if those communities are easily findable for less extremist people who might be vulnerable to radicalization the communities will spread. While banning them to more hidden places causes a risk of further and further radicalization inside the group IMO the risk is less than the statistically significant rise of fascism, alt-right and extremist hate that at least Western countries are facing globally. The best way to combat radicalization is also not to let these radicalized communities exist alongside others as they were the same as it gives legitimacy to their viewpoints. And to be honest the best way to combat radicalization is to combat marginalization and suffering by educational measures, accessible mental health support, and robust social security nets that are high enough to actually live and not just survive. But that is not here or there when it comes to talking about internet platforms and their handling of extremist ideology or hate.
I do not personally have as much knowledge of the radicalized left as the radicalized right, different religions, and ethnicities. Partly because as a leftist who is an aid worker focusing on refugees, they don’t tend to come at me in the same way as the constant right-wing extremist viewpoints that come out of windows and doors. But in my opinion same goes for them although I see less of a danger of them becoming statistically significant in the near future. But lets not give them that chance.
Because of my frequent runnings with radicalized rights and the unfortunate need to be also up to date in how radicalization works as refugees can be vulnerable to radicalization, not because of where they are from or what they believe in but because of how they are treated and the conditions they survive in, I really hope we can at least here in Fediverse create a place where the hate while not banned as it is an impossibility is walled well enough that I can feel safe writing this comment. Of course, in this instance I have no real vote as it is not my instance, just giving my few cents.
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@empireOfLove @SJ_Zero cope
incredibly detailed and well researched argument from an account with zero lemmy activity except two comments defending exploding heads
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nice job gatekeeping. Good to know that the internet never truely changes. You should be happy lemmy is growing into a serious service instead of some halfassed forgotten backwater that will eventually run out of users and die, instead you’re just angry that our “corporate posting” is dirtying up your perfect little echo chambers.
I’m here for the long haul. That includes defederating from every hate instance I find, no matter how many those assholes start. Go find something better to do with your life than defend bigots and “ridicule” people for daring to have principles.
@empireOfLove and don’t worry we were here before you and we will remain here long after you go :love:
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That’s a lot of words to apologize for bigots.
I don’t recall anyone apologizing.
🤣
I also had a dopey comment on mine too. I feel like the people migrating from Reddit are bringing all their negative energy.
All they do is try to one up each other.
To be fair… yes* they did post before the reddit exodus happened*
EDIT: Defederation needs to be due to the accused violationg a bight line rule of making a reasonable effort to prevent hate or intolerance and not by any culture war bs
I believe We have crossed that threshold here
However, that doesnt take away anyones right to defederate. If we dont want to federate with the group that encourages people to have PFPs that are
Transphobic
Of A boy (kalbin and hobbs?) Peeing on a trans flag
We dont have to,
no matter how much I would love to see them in the corner doing their own thing, their right to swing their arms ends when it hits a trans persons face. and being on the home page is militarally useful.
I wish I could argue with you on this point, but while I think no group should be beyond criticism and that includes “protected groups”, I would tend to agree that some of the posts I’ve seen in the past are probably over a line and as such I can understand why people would just say “naw, let’s just not federate that”.
There are lots of good posts on the site even – they cover a lot of stuff we should be talking about such as crony capitalism and corruption, but it doesn’t take many really bad posts gone completely unmanaged and unchallenged to turn an instance into a superfund site, even for reasonably liberal people who want to allow talking about controversial topics.
I think that’s a much better argument than just painting the site and everything and everyone on it with a broad brush. “There’s specific stuff on that site that they find acceptable but we don’t and there’s been instances where the users there brought their unacceptable stuff into the other communities so we don’t want to federate with them to maintain our own community standards” is difficult to argue with. It’s a well-reasoned point that shows everyone is thinking for themselves which is all I ask.
And yeah, I saw OP was from beehaw afterward and realized that they were probably around a bit before all this.
Thanks for a sanity check, My post was too harsh, honestly this is what i think should be the case (edit: fix link)
Thats the tradity of it, sensable people with a diffrent beleaf set, pushed into a room where their vulrable to perswasion (propaganda) that X is gonna hurt your kids. (It needs evaluating, but most are going to start with a soundbyte and build a hyper-reality in whitch the soundbyte is correct)
Also to be frank, that was 5 minutes of browsing, and I couldve attached to any other group if i saw it first, I saw
- slightly edgy memes / no ill will
- memes about trans folk from an outsider perspective
- a post of the same nature as the above but actively hateful and made by the user I mentioned with the PFP
Link the stuff your talkimg about, It sounds cool
You’re reading a lot into what I’m saying stuff that I’m not saying
Nah it’s just we don’t like racists and fascists. It’s not complicated.
Preach Brother
I appreciate this. ✊
lemmy.world already defederated them, and gave explanation here: https://lemmy.world/post/747912
I think this post is for lemmy.one
Yes, I posted this to give info about another instance’s decision and especially their reasoning for doing so, since it seemed applicable here.
I just looked through and that whole community looks like /r/terriblefacebookmemes, but they’re serious
Agree, that place is a cess pit of absolute trash
Those people are sociopaths
Yeah, the rest of the instance is a cesspool as well. Dank memes isn’t the worst of it.
In mastodon you can mute an entire instance without having the main instance do it for you. I wonder if theres a plan to add this to lemmy.
That already is a feature of Lemmy!
No it’s not you can only block communities as a user but not whole instances.
Ah good point, still learning!
That will be a great
Make them defederate from you. Just galvanize a group of volunteers to mirror everything they post from your own instance, but edit “left” to “right”, “black” to “white”, “Biden” to “trump”, “liberal” to “conservative”, “trans” to “cis”, “gay” to “straight”, and let them decide how “free” they like their speech.
Hate speech with different targets is still hate speech. You’re only going to further convince them that they are right to be hateful.
Very true. Thanks for pointing that out.
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Just block it, or go to Threads if you enjoy a sterile environment
Not full of hateful losers != Sterile lol
That’s such a simple view of how it goes. The bigoted user’s go over to communities I run and harass my members.
In the same way they harass members of non-exploding heads communities. They can go be bigoted in their bubble but I do not want them here.
I am glad Lemmy.Worlds defederated from them. Good riddance.
Just block it, or go to Threads if you enjoy a sterile environment
A site without bigots isn’t sterile
All the downvotes to this comment are ridiculous. Everyone on this site has the ability to block any instance they want. Want “X” instance off your front page? Guess what, you can do that with the click of a button.
You can’t block whole instances
That’s not a feature. If you want to block an entire instance, you have to appeal to an admin to defederate, or you have to run your own instance and add them to your blacklist
It’s a feature on kbin.
Okay. This is a conversation about two lemmy instances
TIL. It kind of blows my mind that Lemmy doesn’t have this feature. It seems like one of the first things you would provide to users when building something in the Fediverse.
True, but the important point should be that this feature is implemented elsewhere, so that should probably be brought over, giving users the ability to dictate the content they view.
Or you just block any communities from the instance you don’t like. It’s slightly less convenient than one button for the whole instance, but it does the same thing.
Or your instance can defederate instances that go against their principles (the whole point of defederation) and you can create an account on the other.
I don’t like the concept of the owners of instances acting like dictators. We had that on Reddit. No point in being on Lemmy if that’s the ethos. I’d rather the owners let us decide our own experience.
Not accepting intolerance isn’t being a dictator. Plus you can just switch instance if you don’t agree with it’s moderation.
The whole point of federation is shit communities can be dropped if they don’t match up with your instances ideals.
The instance admins don’t want the hassle of moderating content from bad instances and it’s totally up to them.
If people don’t like it they can move. No Biggie.
Wasnt that supposed to be the entire fucking point? That’s why when everyone was saying the fediverse is the next thing since sliced bread, I was like nah dude, you really falling for that shit? It’s all about the power of isolation. Lemmy won’t last very long. Everyone will eventually be segregated and by doing that, it creates lower amounts of user content. We’ll 1000 instances with 30 ppl on each. Yea makes real sense. Great fucking idea not to mention the 1k accounts you’ll need to use those instances
Damn it’s definitely not like that sort of separation is how the internet ran for a couple decades with BBS’s, vBulletin forums, and usenet groups. And it worked great until the corporations bought everything out.
Defederating from and isolating hate groups is something the entire internet has also been doing for decades. Find something better to defend.
I don’t understand why you were downvoted. Lemmy gives us all the tools we need to block communities and users we don’t want to see. Is that not good enough? Do they want to control the experience for everyone else as well? Bunch of authoritarians in here.
Lemmy also gives you the possibility to set up your own instance and choose your own rules and who you federate with…
Exactly. If OP wants to defederated, they should go and set up their own instance. Why are they trying to control the experience for everyone else?
Probably because they’ve seen content they don’t like and instead of taking the personal responsibility of blocking it themselves, they want it done at the federation level.
More like I joined this instance because I agreed with its ruleset, and want to support this instances’ further success by alerting admins to major moderation issues before they snowball into a big problem.
The admin agreed, so sucks to your “free speech”.
You should feel proud, here’s a medal 🥇
EXACTLY DUDE LOL
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Very much agreed it’s basic common sense
They weren’t downvoted, this instance doesn’t even allow downvotes
They have 26 downvotes. You have two. You don’t see them because your instance doesn’t let you see them. We can see them from other instances.
Interesting, my understanding was that instances with no downvoting didn’t store any downvotes at all, so they would only exist in the instance of the user who made them, i.e. 26 people from your instance have downvoted that comment but there’s no info from other instances, is that not the case?
Ah, that is interesting. Maybe that’s exactly how it works. I’m learning something new about Lemmy every day.
Exactly this. People have the tools and abilities to block these communities and domains if they don’t want to see that content. Pulling out the de-federation ban-hammer whenever you personally aren’t keen on the content isn’t a reasonable solution.
It’s all about control to them dude.
yeah how dare I want to tell homophobes to shut the hell up. It’s so controlling and authoritarian, oh no.
edit: and what exactly are we “controlling” anyway? All this would do is support the ruleset that exists on lemmy.one. If you want to go take part in that hate, go sign up with exploding-heads; it will continue to exist, we just will not be providing a larger platform for them.
Yes of course they do. That’s what they want
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The big advantage of federation is that shit instances can be removed. It’s one of the big selling points. If an instance wants to allow hateful trash they do so at the risk of being cut off.
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If they want to see both instances they can create an account on both instances and follow the instances rules.
You can mod however you choose. Other people don’t have to give a shit or listen to it.
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Will do. Enjoy your racism and transphobia I guess.
The “free speech even if you don’t like it” shtick is very romantic and reasonable sounding, but it ignores how extremism spreads and escalates.
The far-right have spent a lot of time and money figuring out how to best spread their shitty ideology and have learned what every other cult has – the softest targets are the disillusioned, the deeply mentally ill, the idiots and the kids.
They share stories about how they became radicalised and they all read much the same – they read the memes, dipped a toe into the “alt-light” and then let upvotes and algorithms funnel them into mask off Nazism, cheering on domestic terrorists.
I dont know (nor care) if you’re platforming them because you’re ignorant of how it works or because you know exactly how it works but I won’t be a part of any instance that tolerates scumbags like that.
Your argument may as well be “maybe the children should decide if they want to be groomed and molested, instead of parents and police deciding for them”.
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Honestly; running your community that way violates the Lemmy Code of Conduct, which a large number of instances choose to adhere to, as well as the more general template version; the Citizen Code of Conduct.
Therefore you can expect many, many instances to quickly defederate you if you do not take steps to ensure your communities do not spill over or propagate hateful content. I think this instance is not quite as itchy on the defederation button; but even I would support your instance being defederated simply because you evidently choose not to moderate “anything offensive at all”.
It’s only a matter of time before the trolls and edgelords you hope to attract to your community will test the limits and post truly illegal things.
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Your response only shows how unconcerned of an admin you are. If you wanted to prove your opponents are reactionaries; you definitely shouldn’t be accusing them of being trolls on alts or calling them out as pathetic or as ideologues. Your response only lends strength to those calling for your instances’ defederation.
These are just extreme examples but… 5 different nazi memes, each with their own uniquely embedded/hidden swastikas is still spamming hate. 5 different unique nazi dogwhistles is still spammed hate. 5 different calls for laws to be passed that don’t in and of themselves call for legalized murder of trans people; but result in the murders of trans people to go unpunished; is in of itself, spammed hate.
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Homophobia, transphobia and racism do in fact cause real harm. There’s no need for it.
I don’t care if some uneducated idiot is stuck 30/40 years in the past mentally.
I gain absolutely nothing by hearing it and don’t care what they think.
If you don’t want to see content, block it. Lemmy gives you all the tools to do that. Why are you trying to control the experience for everyone else?
Also gives the tools to defederate. This is exactly what they are for.
Lol that dank memes page is pretty funny.
To quash your worry, when you keep banning things, those people crave it more. Otherwise people will just get bored of the jokes if they’re only making trans jokes, then it’ll not be upvoted.
Let the system work, and use the block feature if you don’t like it.
Alright I don’t actually have a clue how this Fediverse works. There’s one guy who is so obsessed with trans that his name is “I hate trans”, posting weird political stuff.
But I don’t know if that was to dank memes or what.
I might not be for banning jokes, but I support banning idiots. Anyone that obsessed is just going to generate 0 interesting content.
That is the point of my OP.
Exploding-heads actively welcomes people of that level of idiocy, and from the little I can see, the majority of that instance’s users are that way. We cannot actively block every single one of their users from here because they will simply keep coming on new accounts unless you just cut off the source.
when you keep banning things, those people crave it more.
Your lawyer called; he said you should stop posting your defense strategy for your upcoming CP trial to Lemmy.
If you don’t want to see content, block it. Lemmy gives you all the tools to do that. Why are you trying to control the experience for everyone else?
