cross-posted from : https://lemmy.zip/post/63262827
Chanting ‘from the river to the sea’ would be criminalised under proposed state law
I think Israel shouldn’t exist.
Someone downvoted this, so I’m saying it again:
I think Israel shouldn’t exist.
ISRAEL SHOULDN’T EXIST GODDAMMIT
You downvote, I repeat. I can’t say it any bigger cause I already blew the largest font size but I don’t fucking care:
ISRAEL SHOULDN’T FUCKING EXIST.
What?
the force is strong in this one
I have no idea what that means, but Israel shouldn’t fuckin’ exist.
It isn’t a law yet luckily
I do wonder how this is even being considered. Do Germans not have legally protected free speech?
Yes we do, that doesn’t prevent conservatives and nazis from saying stuff like that. They’re shifting the Overton window.
like that
like what? ‘from the river to the sea’?
I meant like proposing to criminalise something that is obviously guaranteed by the constitution. They do that all the time.
One of the founding principles in the Declaration of Independence is that no State has the right to exist without the consent of all people ‘governed’ within that States area of control.
Any American stating that Israel has a right to exist or demanding that others state that Israel has a right to exist are unAmerican. And being unAmerican in defense of a foreign State.
Fucking traitorous scum.
I think you missed the first word of the title
This is German
So what?
The use of the question: Do you believe Israel has a right to exist?
is a propaganda point universally used as a gotcha against critics of Israel.
Furthermore, while the view that States have no right to exist without the full consent of all of the governed is a (hypocritically held) American view, it is a universal one held by anyone who believes apartheid is wrong.
My balanced take:
Israel has a right to exist in it’s original borders. So has Palatine. Israeli genocide by their political elite must be stopped. We need a blue helmet peace mission to separate both groups back into their homes and rebuild. They need long term help to get off their religious bullshit and learn to be good neighbors.
Having a law criminalizing a radical opinion is not in the interest of free speech and should have no place in Germany nor any place. You have the right to be stupid, I draw the line at violence. As should the law.
Israel has a right to exist in it’s original borders.
What “original” borders? The borders they established in 1948 by ethnically cleansing Palestinian land? The historical borders of Judea and Samaria? If so which ones? Are we going to rely on the historiagraphy of Israelis who determined those historical borders too? Why should we legitimize an explicitly settler colonial project who has only caused problems for an entire region since its inception? What even gives a state the “right to exist”.
I agree that we need an organized international intervention but we should also seriously investigate the purpose of Israel. Who benefits from its continue existence and why is incredibly important to determining what to do going forward. I am of the opinion that a two state solution only leaves us where we were a few decades ago. It allows the settlers to bide their time.
States don’t have rights people have rights.
I tend to agree on a technicality. But the state is formed and represented by its it’s people. Therefore there is a right to exist that’s derived from the peoples right to exist as well as a right to defend themselves that derives from it’s peoples right to safety. Let’s just say Israel has gone somewhat overboard and the US is somewhat stoking that fire for religious and political reasons and that needs to stop.
Israel has a right to exist in it’s original borders
Lebensraum.
No it doesn’t.
Palatine
I have a feeling Germany isn’t gonna approve of that one either. Especially since that’s where the nukes are.
They have unequivocally proberen that they cannot live in the middle east without starting shit. Maybe the Madagascar plan wasn’t too bad an idea?
Israel has as much right to exist as any other state.
I don’t disagree but I think you are missing the point.
It shouldn’t be legal to say Israel doesn’t have a right to exist. People should be allowed to voice an option freely without fear of harm.
Yeah and historic context is important. In Germany it is also illegal to say that the Holocaust didn’t happen and that’s a good thing.
Much as I hate states, a democratic state that proportionally represents all people in its territory has more right to exist than other states. Palesinians can’t vote so Israel has less right to exist than some other states.
Democracy doesn’t need a state. If you hate states, then you shouldn’t defend them tbh. They are inherently anti-democratic in the way they arbitrarily decide who is and isn’t part of the represented group (e.g. by borders)
