That’s part of my point. We don’t require old people to do anything other than… exist for a while? And yet when you start taking about young people all these qualifications start coming out. But stupid people get old too, and nobody keeps them away from the polls.
If you are too young to work you shouldn’t have to vote I think, but if you can get a job you should be able to vote. This of course won’t solve all the parties being shit tho.
If you are too young to work you shouldn’t have to vote
Makes it sound like a chore, not sure if that was intended. The phrasing however somewhat leads to another completely different discussion, whether or not it would be a good idea to require everyone to vote (even if they just mark their ballot invalid) to combat low voter turnouts.
But as with other arguments, we again don’t tie voting rights to having a job otherwise we would deny them from the elderly or sick aswell. I think in this context the argument is sometimes made that when you have a job you are forced to pay taxes and therefore should be allowed to vote, but there are other taxes like sales tax that everybody pays earlier.
This of course won’t solve all the parties being shit tho.
I feel like this reasoning would change character of the right to vote from something inherent, to something that has to be earned. Which i am not really a fan of.
I agree with you, but a baby can’t read a ballot or pull a lever. Help is always available to anyone who asks, so I suppose we could just eliminate the age requirement altogether and let anyone who is able to register go to the polls.
I would be concerned about a certain type of person trying to make as many little voters as they can crank out, but I suppose some people do that anyway and just wait until they turn 18.
I agree with you, but a baby can’t read a ballot or pull a lever
I absolutely get the sentiment, but with arguments like these i always end up running into hypocrisy and double standards. There are plenty of illiterate adults and we are rightfully allowing them to vote, so do the blind. Paralyzed people are also voting despite them not being physically able to move a lever. As you said, there should always be help available.
In practice i doubt many babies will articulate a desire to vote and the number of extremely young children will also be limited. So to me if a 6 year old comes up and says “i want to vote” i say let him, he certainly is affected by the consequences of the elections regardless.
let anyone who is able to register go to the polls.
I would note that depending on the implementation this can also be a unneccesary hurdle and be abused as seen in the US.
As an inherent right it really should be as automatic as practial limits allow it to be (some sort of register is ofc needed to prevent voting multiple times).
Here in Germany for example it’s simply tied to your registered primary residence, which means that only people without such have to actively seek out registration wherever they live.
I would be concerned about a certain type of person trying to make as many little voters as they can crank out, but I suppose some people do that anyway and just wait until they turn 18.
And that’s the slippery slope: Who gets to decide that “certain type of person”?
To go with your example of the number of children: I think statistically poor people have more than the rich. Is that what we want to fight? Also who is to say that children vote the same as their parents?
An illiterate or blind adult can ask for help. A poll worker will read the ballot or provide a braille version to help them, and will fill out the ballot with them if requested.
I’m still agreeing with you, you’ve convinced me that any age barrier is arbitrary and hypocritical.
As for registration being a hurdle, the courts have long held that the effort to be registered is minimal, as again there are resources to help people get registered. There are outreach programs, and you can actually go to your local post office or dmv and they will help you register. Children would have an even easier time, since anyone in school could have a teacher or school staff help them.
Children are particularly beholden to their parents for support, though, and by “certain type” I mean the type of person who thinks that having a child is a means to an end. There’s a whole spectrum of quality parenting decisions, but as a general rule, anyone who is having more kids to have more votes is probably a bad parent.
Children are not autonomous and are beholden to another citizen for their existence. That’s a civic relationship too easy to abuse with, what I see to be, very little net benefit.
I’m in support of not taxing children, but how will you distinguish an intentional purchase made by a child vs a purchase made on behalf of someone else for the benefit of a tax-free purchase?
I just want to say thank you. It’s… so unbelievably rare to find someone else on the right side of this in the wild. To not have to fight this fight alone.
Thank you for stepping up, for speaking out, for… all of it.
People with dementia and other mental illnesses don’t lose their voting rights, neither is it coupled to IQ. And imo with good reason.
So I am actually not sure why we are applying this hurdle to children to begin with, when we aren’t doing it in other situations.
That’s part of my point. We don’t require old people to do anything other than… exist for a while? And yet when you start taking about young people all these qualifications start coming out. But stupid people get old too, and nobody keeps them away from the polls.
Agreed. And it’s good that we aren’t keeping those away. Always a slippery slope to make rules about who can or can’t vote.
Honestly I might even go as far as stripping down the requirements to the very basics:
Citizenship (including special cases that e.g. EU citizens can vote in regional elections of other EU countries if they live there)
the desire to vote
Just let them start voting when they express their desire to do so.
If you are too young to work you shouldn’t have to vote I think, but if you can get a job you should be able to vote. This of course won’t solve all the parties being shit tho.
Makes it sound like a chore, not sure if that was intended. The phrasing however somewhat leads to another completely different discussion, whether or not it would be a good idea to require everyone to vote (even if they just mark their ballot invalid) to combat low voter turnouts.
But as with other arguments, we again don’t tie voting rights to having a job otherwise we would deny them from the elderly or sick aswell. I think in this context the argument is sometimes made that when you have a job you are forced to pay taxes and therefore should be allowed to vote, but there are other taxes like sales tax that everybody pays earlier.
Now that is the truth.
I meant if you are too young to work you shouldn’t be able to vote, but forgot about people too old or sick too work yeah.
I feel like this reasoning would change character of the right to vote from something inherent, to something that has to be earned. Which i am not really a fan of.
I agree with you, but a baby can’t read a ballot or pull a lever. Help is always available to anyone who asks, so I suppose we could just eliminate the age requirement altogether and let anyone who is able to register go to the polls.
I would be concerned about a certain type of person trying to make as many little voters as they can crank out, but I suppose some people do that anyway and just wait until they turn 18.
I absolutely get the sentiment, but with arguments like these i always end up running into hypocrisy and double standards. There are plenty of illiterate adults and we are rightfully allowing them to vote, so do the blind. Paralyzed people are also voting despite them not being physically able to move a lever. As you said, there should always be help available.
In practice i doubt many babies will articulate a desire to vote and the number of extremely young children will also be limited. So to me if a 6 year old comes up and says “i want to vote” i say let him, he certainly is affected by the consequences of the elections regardless.
I would note that depending on the implementation this can also be a unneccesary hurdle and be abused as seen in the US.
As an inherent right it really should be as automatic as practial limits allow it to be (some sort of register is ofc needed to prevent voting multiple times).
Here in Germany for example it’s simply tied to your registered primary residence, which means that only people without such have to actively seek out registration wherever they live.
And that’s the slippery slope: Who gets to decide that “certain type of person”?
To go with your example of the number of children: I think statistically poor people have more than the rich. Is that what we want to fight? Also who is to say that children vote the same as their parents?
An illiterate or blind adult can ask for help. A poll worker will read the ballot or provide a braille version to help them, and will fill out the ballot with them if requested.
I’m still agreeing with you, you’ve convinced me that any age barrier is arbitrary and hypocritical.
As for registration being a hurdle, the courts have long held that the effort to be registered is minimal, as again there are resources to help people get registered. There are outreach programs, and you can actually go to your local post office or dmv and they will help you register. Children would have an even easier time, since anyone in school could have a teacher or school staff help them.
Children are particularly beholden to their parents for support, though, and by “certain type” I mean the type of person who thinks that having a child is a means to an end. There’s a whole spectrum of quality parenting decisions, but as a general rule, anyone who is having more kids to have more votes is probably a bad parent.
Children are not autonomous and are beholden to another citizen for their existence. That’s a civic relationship too easy to abuse with, what I see to be, very little net benefit.
I’m in support of not taxing children, but how will you distinguish an intentional purchase made by a child vs a purchase made on behalf of someone else for the benefit of a tax-free purchase?
I just want to say thank you. It’s… so unbelievably rare to find someone else on the right side of this in the wild. To not have to fight this fight alone.
Thank you for stepping up, for speaking out, for… all of it.
Glad to hear that! I think there are plenty of us, it’s just really hard to to have these kind of discussions online and other voices are just louder.