Unfortunately it comes down to people thinking for themselves and that seems to be an issue. You can tell someone that it won’t help them as much as you want, but if they’re dead set on believing that it will then what can you do??
It’s mind boggling that people think that they can be more educated than people who literally spent 5 years in medical school.
I guess that’s the problem with science industries where people who aren’t trained still get a payoff by being wrong (the losses sometimes aren’t obvious), whereas being a builder or mechanic (which in my experience tend to be the 2 most cocky industries), the results are often more immediately wrong or right
People think that, because sooner or later they end up meeting someone who spent 5 years in medical school, plus an internship, plus got a masters degree, plus a specialty… yet is still cocky, jumps to conclusions, and refuses to admit being wrong.
That gives people with no clue, the idea that they can be more educated than all medical staff and all scientists. Then shit happens.
Most people do not run into this. They hear stories where it “totally happened to somebody else once.” This is basically a parroted parable by the right.
Have I encountered some doctors with egos? Certainly. And I’m sure that what you are describing has occurred. But it’s not like it is some widespread problem. It’s a cherry picked, often never-experienced example to try to win an argument and tear down the legitimacy of trusting experts when they speak on matters they know about because the right doesn’t like what they have to say. Classic “it sounds like something that would happen so it basically did” nonsense.
I’m nowhere close to the right, and yet I’ve experienced it personally more times than I have fingers to count on. Some examples:
(first hand anecdotal evidence)
“He’s totally fine, just give him liquids and it’ll pass” - It wasn’t, it was appendicitis.
“The doctor said it will pass, but we’ll keep him for a couple days in observation” - It didn’t, appendix burst, filling everything with shit. They urgently flew in an expert surgeon from another city; when I was already under, he put a scalpel to my belly and it just sunk inside, my father and a nurse fainted.
After 2 months of stay in hospital, before they had to write a special justification: “He’s totally recovered, go home” - Another month with private nurse care at home.
“We acted as quickly as possible” - Written in the final report, dated to 2 days after I got admitted.
“That’s just some leftover blood” - It wasn’t, it was internal bleeding.
“Just take a painkiller and it’ll pass” - It didn’t, it was sepsis. Got admitted and directly put on a wide spectrum antibiotic, then waited for a week for the cultures to confirm I wasn’t going to die.
“Trust me, I’ve got special training on this” - Said by a nurse who couldn’t correctly fit a suction bandage for three times, after I pointed out it was sucking air from one wound in through another. They got a manufacturer’s representative who confirmed that, and directed them how to put it correctly. The next “trained” nurse, made the same mistake.
“You see fine, why don’t you get a driver’s permit?” - I barely can read, don’t see half the signs on the road, and when I ride shotgun, pedestrians suddenly appear out of nowhere.
“It’s all in your head” - Repeated 3 times, proceeds to write “no findings” in report, I still see random lights.
“It’s just a cold, take some hot tea and it will clear up” - It was ear canal infection, after a month in agonizing pain, got me close to losing my hearing, until I asked for a 4th opinion.
“Get up and you can wash yourself” - Said by an orderly, who proceeded to disconnect the antibiotics feed and left it dripping to the floor. Nurse was not amused.
“Don’t worry, it’s just an infection” - repeated for a week - “Let’s wait just a couple more days until the next revision” - patient dies the next day - “Well, you know she was very sick” - she was recovering before the infection.
“I know it hurts, but we have to pull it out” - No, it hurts because you forgot to release the inner balloon on the catheter.
“She probably drank too much water” - Said about a cat with an inflated belly. Next day she died. - “She passed away so quietly, not even a peep”.
…there is more, but let me not bore you with anecdotal evidence.
After all that shit, I should have died 5 or 6 times already, so I’m not going to badmouth the medical profession as a whole, and still got all my vaccines… but the fact that there are highly educated jackasses out there, is a fact.
Most people do not run into this.
Not sure if you’re young, or I’m cursed. My first run into “this” was when I was 13, and keeping a steady streak since then.
I’m sorry you experienced all this, and I don’t think you’re lying. I’d also like to point out I didn’t say it literally never happens - I feel I was pretty clear about that.
Ok. Let me point out I also said “sooner or later”, so the longer someone lives, the higher their chances of having encountered an experience like that. Actually… I don’t think I’ve ever met anyone above the age of 60 who hahadn’t had some of those at least once, which would be about when most people would’ve had enough exposure to the medical world… but I wouldn’t want to generalize.
The longer someone lives, the more likely they are to get into a serious car accident that kills them, but we don’t go around acting like it is incredibly common for everyone to get into a serious car accident that kills them. We acknowledge that they happen and do reasonable things to prevent them.
It’s about a sense of proportion. We should not operate like most doctors are full of shit or blindingly egotistical, which circles back to my point about how this is a right wing talking point. Because it furthers their anti-expert (especially doctors) narratives that ballooned during COVID when we act like it’s a bigger deal than it is.
Unfortunately it’s a bit more complicated. In France a famous (now more like infamous) virologist, head of an immunology institute, has defended hydroxychloroquin for months, calling COVID-19 a small flu with negligible mortality on all media. Initially as a call to do more experimental medical studies, but he kept at it long after everything he said was disproved by the academic world in general.
He manipulated studies, he put all of his experience, reputation, and inflated ego in the balance, and he acted as a beacon for all conspiracy theories on vaccines, masks and lockdown measures. He even started selling his bullshit in Africa when he was largely exposed as a fraud in France.
That guy alone is responsible for a lot of deaths, and he didn’t just spend 5 years in medical school, he directed a medical research institute.
Unfortunately it comes down to people thinking for themselves and that seems to be an issue. You can tell someone that it won’t help them as much as you want, but if they’re dead set on believing that it will then what can you do??
It’s mind boggling that people think that they can be more educated than people who literally spent 5 years in medical school.
I guess that’s the problem with science industries where people who aren’t trained still get a payoff by being wrong (the losses sometimes aren’t obvious), whereas being a builder or mechanic (which in my experience tend to be the 2 most cocky industries), the results are often more immediately wrong or right
People think that, because sooner or later they end up meeting someone who spent 5 years in medical school, plus an internship, plus got a masters degree, plus a specialty… yet is still cocky, jumps to conclusions, and refuses to admit being wrong.
That gives people with no clue, the idea that they can be more educated than all medical staff and all scientists. Then shit happens.
Most people do not run into this. They hear stories where it “totally happened to somebody else once.” This is basically a parroted parable by the right.
Have I encountered some doctors with egos? Certainly. And I’m sure that what you are describing has occurred. But it’s not like it is some widespread problem. It’s a cherry picked, often never-experienced example to try to win an argument and tear down the legitimacy of trusting experts when they speak on matters they know about because the right doesn’t like what they have to say. Classic “it sounds like something that would happen so it basically did” nonsense.
I’m nowhere close to the right, and yet I’ve experienced it personally more times than I have fingers to count on. Some examples:
(first hand anecdotal evidence)
…there is more, but let me not bore you with anecdotal evidence.
After all that shit, I should have died 5 or 6 times already, so I’m not going to badmouth the medical profession as a whole, and still got all my vaccines… but the fact that there are highly educated jackasses out there, is a fact.
Not sure if you’re young, or I’m cursed. My first run into “this” was when I was 13, and keeping a steady streak since then.
I’m sorry you experienced all this, and I don’t think you’re lying. I’d also like to point out I didn’t say it literally never happens - I feel I was pretty clear about that.
Ok. Let me point out I also said “sooner or later”, so the longer someone lives, the higher their chances of having encountered an experience like that. Actually… I don’t think I’ve ever met anyone above the age of 60 who hahadn’t had some of those at least once, which would be about when most people would’ve had enough exposure to the medical world… but I wouldn’t want to generalize.
The longer someone lives, the more likely they are to get into a serious car accident that kills them, but we don’t go around acting like it is incredibly common for everyone to get into a serious car accident that kills them. We acknowledge that they happen and do reasonable things to prevent them.
It’s about a sense of proportion. We should not operate like most doctors are full of shit or blindingly egotistical, which circles back to my point about how this is a right wing talking point. Because it furthers their anti-expert (especially doctors) narratives that ballooned during COVID when we act like it’s a bigger deal than it is.
Unfortunately it’s a bit more complicated. In France a famous (now more like infamous) virologist, head of an immunology institute, has defended hydroxychloroquin for months, calling COVID-19 a small flu with negligible mortality on all media. Initially as a call to do more experimental medical studies, but he kept at it long after everything he said was disproved by the academic world in general.
He manipulated studies, he put all of his experience, reputation, and inflated ego in the balance, and he acted as a beacon for all conspiracy theories on vaccines, masks and lockdown measures. He even started selling his bullshit in Africa when he was largely exposed as a fraud in France.
That guy alone is responsible for a lot of deaths, and he didn’t just spend 5 years in medical school, he directed a medical research institute.
Basically tried to pull an Andrew Wakefield.
I huess you need to add the amount of false science to things as an excuse.
Exxon for example spent millions on climate research. And were the first to discover global warming evidence.
But after a change of leadership spent billions on false or questionable science to argue against man made and every other excuse about the evidence.
Plastics is another that did a huge amount of damage to the laymans intrepretation of science.
Plus many many more over the last 4 or 5 decades.
Hard to blame lay men for thinking science is often about the highest bidder rather then formal methods.
It doesn’t help when you have people that Supposedly went to Harvard spouting out BS misinformation.
No, if they were thinking that would not be an issue. Whatever they’re doing is an issue, but calling it thinking is a stretch.