EDIT : It seems as no one understood what i was talking about and maybe its my fault for not elaborating . I always thought chicken was a metaphor for this paradox and not really meaning chicken as a specific spiece . So my question is how did the ancestor of chicken came to be if it was born (egg) wouldn’t it need a parent or if it was a parent (chicken ) woudn’t it need to be born ? Or did all the creatures start out as bacteria and climbed out from ocean through evalution if so why isn’t any new species being born this way or am i missing something ?

  • Ashy@lemmy.wtf
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    11 months ago

    but we can say that at some point some proto-chicken ancestor laid an egg that was different enough genetically that it counts as a chicken

    This is not correct. At no point can the offspring in a single generation be differnet enough to be called a different species.

    What we call “species” are just current snapshots of time. Species only make sense in a narrow timeframe. In reality things change very slowley over a large amount of time and there a no clear transition points.

    • kirklennon@kbin.social
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      11 months ago

      This is not correct. At no point can the offspring in a single generation be differnet enough to be called a different species.

      I’m not saying we should call it a different species but if we’re saying species Y is the direct descendant of species X, then, we can imagine a dividing line, and the line must always begin with an egg because eggs are different from their parents but adults are not different from the egg they started off as.

      In reality things change very slowley over a large amount of time and there a no clear transition points.

      Isn’t that obvious?

      • novibe@lemmy.ml
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        11 months ago

        But that line can only ever be imaginary. There was never a proto-chicken that birthed a chicken. All chickens were birthed by chickens, all proto-chickens birthed proto-chickens.

        We can make an imaginary line, but if went looking for it we would never find it.

          • novibe@lemmy.ml
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            11 months ago

            The last chicken and first proto-chicken wouldn’t be 1 generation apart. The changes are so small that it takes thousands of generations for anything even close to beginning speciation to occur. If we literally did what you said, we would go backwards forever and when we got to something that looked completely unlike a chicken we’d be “shit, we have to go the other way around and check again, all the animals around this one look exactly like it, for thousands of generations”.

    • Lmaydev
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      11 months ago

      Something not defined as a chicken would have to lay an egg that hatched something defined as a chicken at some point. Otherwise we couldn’t have chickens.

      But as you say the definition is the problem with this question.

      • Ashy@lemmy.wtf
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        11 months ago

        Something not defined as a chicken would have to lay an egg that hatched something defined as a chicken at some point. Otherwise we couldn’t have chickens.

        Yep. But at least with our current definition of what a “species” (roughly a group of organism that can interbreed and have fertile offspring), that’s not possible.

        If some not-chicken would lay an egg that hatches a chicken, that chicken would have nothing to breed with. It would basically be a genetic defect that makes it infertile.