The thing about the kernel in particular is it’s already mostly about money. With very few exceptions most maintainers are employed by someone, even just the Linux foundation, to work on the kernel full time. There’s very little community involvement outside of the random patches here and there that community members submit. I think what OP is getting at is it would be nice if there was a community sponsored maintainer so it wasn’t all just corporate employees but that likely means providing financial compensation.

I didn’t really pay any attention to him until he started becoming mainstream…and I will say the disappointment has been annoying.

Sorry I didn’t pay that much attention to musk before he started going mainstream? I don’t make it a point to keep track of every billionaires flaws unless they become relevant to my life.

This actually frustrates the crap out of me because when he first bought it I had high hopes for the direction he planned to take the platform in…and then he banned elonjet…and the silly rules just keep coming.

Making a feature request is one thing but complaining isn’t helpful especially when they’re working on other things. It’s not like they’re sitting on their asses doing nothing.

I do get the irony, but I also do get where he’s coming from about users always asking for more.

I’m also a plain compositor person but gnome is my favorite DE and sometimes I kinda miss the polished DE experience. My productivity doesn’t…but sometimes I do lol.

Even as a systemd user I’m starting to feel the kitchen sink creep in

Yeah, I agree with you. After seeing the latest drama I get why marcan was annoyed but also IMO his response only escalated the situation and was unproductive so maybe having someone else handle the upstream code will work out better for everyone.

Yeah I agree here. I’d expect my laptop to stay asleep if it was asleep to begin with. Also I find it kind of annoying that in order to fix bugs they have to change Linux to mimic windows, especially when it’s a situation like this where the change specifically results in a different behavior which is noticable to users.

Sounds like a government

…look man, I’m going to say this as simply as possible because you keep mischaracterizing or misunderstanding a lot of what I say. I’m not making any claims about kernel policy, full stop. I never did.

I’m not saying his behavior is justified in regards to calling rust a cancer, I’m just saying that he is making a legitimate technical complaint, regardless of his motives…and EVEN if he wasn’t, name calling is unproductive.

C is high level ASM, Linus has said that as a quote, I personally agree with it having written both, it’s an opinion, not a statement of fact, you can disagree all you like but the fact that some kernel maintainers share the opinion is a valid point to bring up in this conversation about multiple languages causing a divide. I will find the source for his quote if that will satisfy you.

Lastly, the point I’m trying and failing to make is the kernel is 1% ASM, rust when fully brought into the kernel will comprise far more than 1%, additionally it is FAR more different to C than ASM is regardless of your opinions on the C is high level ASM statement. It WILL create a language barrier, the question is how significant will that be. The ASM is a small minority of kernel code, rust won’t be.

C is basically high level assembly. It’s hardware agnostic high level assembly. I have written both, this is personal experience and also I believe even Linus has said EXACTLY that statement. It is an opinion ofc and you’re welcome to disagree but it isn’t just me.

I never said it was a policy but it’s definitely true. Inline assembly IS still assembly. I’m saying if the code can be written in C it more than likely will be over assembly unless there is a very good reason to write it in ASM. The kernel is 97.97% C and just over 1% ASM. If that doesn’t prove what I’m getting at Idk what else will. It’s a totally different circumstance than replacing large swaths of C with rust or introducing large amounts of rust in favor of C.

There are already 2 languages in the kernel: C and Assembly

Assembly and C share a very very close relationship. C is really just high level ASM and ASM is used as little as realistically possible in the kernel so the situation is different.

That already happened and Linus decided to accept Rust code into the kernel.

Doesn’t mean you should neglect the opinion of every other maintainer. I’m not saying rust shouldn’t be included here or that Linus shouldn’t have the right to override his opinion. I am saying calling names as opposed to discussing his concerns is not productive. FOSS is a collaborative space and that collaboration is important even if redundant at times.

I do take it seriously and I think he’s overreacting a little but he does make a reasonable point. Bringing 2 languages into the kernel does create a divide that can come with a maintenance burden. The burden is probably worth the benefits but it’s still an additional burden and that is a valid concern IMO that should be properly addressed and argued with pros/cons rather than name calling and dismissal. Maybe he is acting in bad faith, but I feel like that should only be the conclusion drawn AFTER a reasonable attempt to talk things over has been made.

Additionally assuming someone is acting in bad faith when they’re not can make them jaded with the rust community and push them to actually acting with bad faith even if they weren’t before.

Regardless of the situation and whether he’s acting in bad faith or not I feel like marcan’s comments add nothing productive to the situation and that was my real point with the comment.

I’m personally on board with the comment left by @[email protected]. I think marcan is unnecessarily escalating this situation and I’d hardly describe Christoph’s behavior as sabotage. He does appear to have a real technical concern regarding maintainability and I think discussing that concern is more productive than dismissing it and calling him a saboteur.

Does this work on IPv6 only networks?

EDIT: I ended up installing it and yes, it does, you don’t get a lot of traffic but do get some

Classic Mac OS did, pre OS X aka pre 2001.

Also applies to Mac but yeah

Let’s not forget the sending unity search results to Amazon fiasco