Girl, if this is the way you view the dating pool, then maybe MGTOW has a valid point or three to consider.
I may have stepped off the dating field nearly thirty years ago, but in terms of the gratuitous misandry that I have seen as of the last decade or so, even if I were to become widowed I doubt I would ever want to step back onto it. The juice is just not worth the squeeze if I am seen as “the enemy” and facing unjustified hostility and adversarial arrogance long before you even get to know me.
maybe MGTOW has a valid point or three to consider.
No. Just no. Don’t even consider it. Broken clock being right twice a day.
I went down that pipeline simply because on the surface it presents itself as something to help men gain independence from relationships, but the hate and vitriol there and the rest of the manosphere is more misandrist and misogynist than anything this random woman can ever do.
If you went to most redpill communities, I would absolutely agree with you. It’s often really hard to tell them apart from feminist communities in terms of their rage and hate against the other gender.
However, out of sheer curiosity I have poked my nose into and lurked on a number of MGTOW communities that are refreshingly supportive and which do their best to help men move past the rage phase into more productive paths. Mainly because rage generally isn’t conducive to sustained and healthy self-improvement… and if you’re still obsessed with women in any way, you are pretty much failing at “going your own way”.
I actually know a few MGTOW, and aside from ignoring what society and women demand of them, you would never know they were MGTOW. They don’t talk about women. They don’t get upset over what women do or say. They just don’t want to have anything to do with women because they have much better things to do with their lives.
And when women complain to all and sundry that they just want to be left alone, isn’t MGTOW doing exactly what women want – leaving them TF alone? How could that be in any way a bad thing?
While there can be some healthy trends in these online communities, we should look at it from other angles as well. How does it compare to just getting therapy? Does growing some emotional intelligence turn men into incel terrorists the way a blackpill site might? How do these communities loom from the outside?
Let’s assume that the toxic males among MGTOW are just a loud minority. Why would you still want to hang out there? There’s plenty of supportive spaces, both online, and IRL that don’t include men who call women trash. Tolerance of intolerance and all that.
If MGTOW stuck to the goal stated in their name, I’d have been happy to stay with them. But even the most reasonable men I found who identified as MGTOW often had sexist tendencies.
But even the most reasonable men I found who identified as MGTOW often had sexist tendencies.
And a majority of women out there would make these “sexist men” look like rank amateurs in comparison.
Just look at all the things that women nail men to the wall with, when considering long-term partners, for starters. Has to make more money - check. Has to be in a socially prestigious career - check. Needs to be taller - check. Needs to be stronger - check. Cannot be disabled - check. Needs to be funny - check. Needs to shoulder most to all of the conversation - check. Needs to acquiesce to the woman’s demands - check. Needs to be the one who shoulders all of the first-approach risk - check. Needs to “be a man” in many situations where any risk is involved - check. The list goes on and on to hundreds of widely-accepted “traditional roles” that men must occupy and conform to, in one capacity or another. And men are “not men” and utterly ignored by women if they violate or even push back on any of these “non-negotiable” points.
And yet, it is “misogyny” if a man asks most women to be in any way “traditional”.
That is the dictionary definition of society as a whole employing gender bigotry. Maybe you need to ask yourself where men’s sexism is coming from… because for any man with open eyes, we’re becoming rank amateurs in the gender bigotry department.
“Kill all men”
Imagine saying the obverse, with the gender flipped. In any society without a severe gender bias, both versions would be equally palatable/unpalatable. The fact that the above is widely celebrated and lauded, while the flipped version is a shining example of evil and hate, only shows where the bulk of gender bigotry is pointing. And it ain’t at women.
But even the most reasonable men I found who identified as MGTOW often had sexist tendencies.
And a majority of women out there would make these “sexist men” look like rank amateurs in comparison.
Just look at all the things that women nail men to the wall with, when considering long-term partners, for starters. Has to make more money - check. Has to be in a socially prestigious career - check. Needs to be taller - check. Needs to be stronger - check. Cannot be disabled - check. Needs to be funny - check. Needs to shoulder most to all of the conversation - check. Needs to acquiesce to the woman’s demands - check. Needs to be the one who shoulders all of the first-approach risk - check. Needs to “be a man” in many situations where any risk is involved - check. The list goes on and on to hundreds of widely-accepted “traditional roles” that men must occupy and conform to, in one capacity or another. And men are “not men” and utterly ignored by women if they violate or even push back on any of these “non-negotiable” points.
And yet, it is “misogyny” if a man asks most women to be in any way “traditional”.
That is the dictionary definition of society as a whole employing gender bigotry. Maybe you need to ask yourself where men’s sexism is coming from… because for any man with open eyes, we’re becoming rank amateurs in the gender bigotry department.
“Kill all men”
Imagine saying the obverse, with the gender flipped. In any society without a severe gender bias, both versions would be equally palatable/unpalatable. The fact that the above is widely celebrated and lauded, while the flipped version is a shining example of evil and hate, only shows where the bulk of gender bigotry is pointing. And it ain’t at women.
But most MGTOW don’t leave women alone. They lurk and comment in communities for women, they post under every article or post they find about women, they try to spread their misogyny whenever they have a chance.
When you are MGTOW, why do you care so much about what someone writes about dating? Why the need to be so angry about it? It doesn’t effect you, so why does it enrage you when women talk about their struggles with dating or life?
Yes. My excuse is that I moved to Canada from Iran where men and women are segregated, but when I wanted to learn about women and their experiences I made the mistake of going to men to hear about them… as if women can’t speak.
The root of the problem is that MGTOW recognizes a lot of issues men face that plenty of people on the left even deny with virulence. Of course, what MGTOW offers as a “solution” is misogyny that only serves to make everyone more miserable, but the young fools who see someone offering them a hand don’t know that, and it’s very rare for them to even hear any alternative narrative that empathizes with their issues.
what MGTOW offers as a “solution” is misogyny that only serves to make everyone more miserable
So when women go their own way they are lauded and celebrated, but when men do the exact same thing, it’s somehow misogyny??
You can’t have the exact same strategy be lauded on the one hand and vilified on the other, purely based on the gender of the person implementing that strategy.
That’s the dictionary definition of gender bigotry, and is at the core of pretty much every reason why men go their own way.
By “MGTOW” I don’t refer to the literal definition, but what you can find the movement is in practice for the vast majority of their members. A woman who goes through the same thought patterns explicitely because they’re become misandric deserves the same criticism.
This is for young women, so probably not at all your dating pool if you become widowed after thirty years of marriage.
Dating is very different later in life. My dad was widowed in his mid fifties, and he pointed out that instead of looking for someone for all the milestones, he was just looking for someone he enjoys spending time with. He didn’t even need to agree with them about religion, because they’re almost definitely not raising kids together.
Girl, if this is the way you view the dating pool, then maybe MGTOW has a valid point or three to consider.
I may have stepped off the dating field nearly thirty years ago, but in terms of the gratuitous misandry that I have seen as of the last decade or so, even if I were to become widowed I doubt I would ever want to step back onto it. The juice is just not worth the squeeze if I am seen as “the enemy” and facing unjustified hostility and adversarial arrogance long before you even get to know me.
No. Just no. Don’t even consider it. Broken clock being right twice a day.
I went down that pipeline simply because on the surface it presents itself as something to help men gain independence from relationships, but the hate and vitriol there and the rest of the manosphere is more misandrist and misogynist than anything this random woman can ever do.
If you went to most redpill communities, I would absolutely agree with you. It’s often really hard to tell them apart from feminist communities in terms of their rage and hate against the other gender.
However, out of sheer curiosity I have poked my nose into and lurked on a number of MGTOW communities that are refreshingly supportive and which do their best to help men move past the rage phase into more productive paths. Mainly because rage generally isn’t conducive to sustained and healthy self-improvement… and if you’re still obsessed with women in any way, you are pretty much failing at “going your own way”.
I actually know a few MGTOW, and aside from ignoring what society and women demand of them, you would never know they were MGTOW. They don’t talk about women. They don’t get upset over what women do or say. They just don’t want to have anything to do with women because they have much better things to do with their lives.
And when women complain to all and sundry that they just want to be left alone, isn’t MGTOW doing exactly what women want – leaving them TF alone? How could that be in any way a bad thing?
While there can be some healthy trends in these online communities, we should look at it from other angles as well. How does it compare to just getting therapy? Does growing some emotional intelligence turn men into incel terrorists the way a blackpill site might? How do these communities loom from the outside?
Let’s assume that the toxic males among MGTOW are just a loud minority. Why would you still want to hang out there? There’s plenty of supportive spaces, both online, and IRL that don’t include men who call women trash. Tolerance of intolerance and all that.
If MGTOW stuck to the goal stated in their name, I’d have been happy to stay with them. But even the most reasonable men I found who identified as MGTOW often had sexist tendencies.
And a majority of women out there would make these “sexist men” look like rank amateurs in comparison.
Just look at all the things that women nail men to the wall with, when considering long-term partners, for starters. Has to make more money - check. Has to be in a socially prestigious career - check. Needs to be taller - check. Needs to be stronger - check. Cannot be disabled - check. Needs to be funny - check. Needs to shoulder most to all of the conversation - check. Needs to acquiesce to the woman’s demands - check. Needs to be the one who shoulders all of the first-approach risk - check. Needs to “be a man” in many situations where any risk is involved - check. The list goes on and on to hundreds of widely-accepted “traditional roles” that men must occupy and conform to, in one capacity or another. And men are “not men” and utterly ignored by women if they violate or even push back on any of these “non-negotiable” points.
And yet, it is “misogyny” if a man asks most women to be in any way “traditional”.
That is the dictionary definition of society as a whole employing gender bigotry. Maybe you need to ask yourself where men’s sexism is coming from… because for any man with open eyes, we’re becoming rank amateurs in the gender bigotry department.
Imagine saying the obverse, with the gender flipped. In any society without a severe gender bias, both versions would be equally palatable/unpalatable. The fact that the above is widely celebrated and lauded, while the flipped version is a shining example of evil and hate, only shows where the bulk of gender bigotry is pointing. And it ain’t at women.
And a majority of women out there would make these “sexist men” look like rank amateurs in comparison.
Just look at all the things that women nail men to the wall with, when considering long-term partners, for starters. Has to make more money - check. Has to be in a socially prestigious career - check. Needs to be taller - check. Needs to be stronger - check. Cannot be disabled - check. Needs to be funny - check. Needs to shoulder most to all of the conversation - check. Needs to acquiesce to the woman’s demands - check. Needs to be the one who shoulders all of the first-approach risk - check. Needs to “be a man” in many situations where any risk is involved - check. The list goes on and on to hundreds of widely-accepted “traditional roles” that men must occupy and conform to, in one capacity or another. And men are “not men” and utterly ignored by women if they violate or even push back on any of these “non-negotiable” points.
And yet, it is “misogyny” if a man asks most women to be in any way “traditional”.
That is the dictionary definition of society as a whole employing gender bigotry. Maybe you need to ask yourself where men’s sexism is coming from… because for any man with open eyes, we’re becoming rank amateurs in the gender bigotry department.
Imagine saying the obverse, with the gender flipped. In any society without a severe gender bias, both versions would be equally palatable/unpalatable. The fact that the above is widely celebrated and lauded, while the flipped version is a shining example of evil and hate, only shows where the bulk of gender bigotry is pointing. And it ain’t at women.
But most MGTOW don’t leave women alone. They lurk and comment in communities for women, they post under every article or post they find about women, they try to spread their misogyny whenever they have a chance.
When you are MGTOW, why do you care so much about what someone writes about dating? Why the need to be so angry about it? It doesn’t effect you, so why does it enrage you when women talk about their struggles with dating or life?
You really don’t know what MGTOW means, do you? Or are you intentionally tarring everything with the same brush in your manufactured outrage?
If you do it right and actually go your own way you don’t hang around the “manosphere” or whatever it’s called these days.
Yes. My excuse is that I moved to Canada from Iran where men and women are segregated, but when I wanted to learn about women and their experiences I made the mistake of going to men to hear about them… as if women can’t speak.
The root of the problem is that MGTOW recognizes a lot of issues men face that plenty of people on the left even deny with virulence. Of course, what MGTOW offers as a “solution” is misogyny that only serves to make everyone more miserable, but the young fools who see someone offering them a hand don’t know that, and it’s very rare for them to even hear any alternative narrative that empathizes with their issues.
So when women go their own way they are lauded and celebrated, but when men do the exact same thing, it’s somehow misogyny??
You can’t have the exact same strategy be lauded on the one hand and vilified on the other, purely based on the gender of the person implementing that strategy.
That’s the dictionary definition of gender bigotry, and is at the core of pretty much every reason why men go their own way.
By “MGTOW” I don’t refer to the literal definition, but what you can find the movement is in practice for the vast majority of their members. A woman who goes through the same thought patterns explicitely because they’re become misandric deserves the same criticism.
This is for young women, so probably not at all your dating pool if you become widowed after thirty years of marriage.
Dating is very different later in life. My dad was widowed in his mid fifties, and he pointed out that instead of looking for someone for all the milestones, he was just looking for someone he enjoys spending time with. He didn’t even need to agree with them about religion, because they’re almost definitely not raising kids together.