President Biden told a Democratic lawmaker and members of his Cabinet after the State of the Union address that he told Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu that they will need to have a “come-to-Jesus meeting.”
Biden’s comments, captured on a hot mic as he spoke with Sen. Michael Bennet (D-Colo.) on the floor of the House chamber, came after Bennet congratulated the commander in chief on his speech and pressed him to keep pressure on Netanyahu over increasing humanitarian issues in Gaza.
Just overall a very funny comment in regards to Israel.
I greatly enjoy that Biden is this way.
When he was campaigning, he was in an interview about Turkey, and he said more or less if Erdoğan gets out of line we might have to get rid of him. Then he realized what he said wasn’t a “say out loud” type of statement, and tried to walk it back by saying well, I don’t mean with a coup or anything, just, you know, we’ll have to see what we can do. Which only made it 10 times worse. The US press didn’t really notice but it was a shit storm in the central-Asian press for like 6 months.
But the thing is, every US president has thoughts and plans like that. I’m not saying it or the neoliberal empire are good things. I’m just saying that Biden has those thoughts and then sometimes actually says them out loud which I actually prefer over the “I’m so self-aware that every statement is preanalyzed and often kind of indirect” Washington standard.
Biden has those thoughts and then sometimes actually says them out loud which I actually prefer over the “I’m so self-aware that every statement is preanalyzed and often kind of indirect” Washington standard.
Which is something that MAGAs say they like about Trump, but they’re always trying to cover for his most outrageous nonsense by saying “no, that’s not what he meant.” And in actuality, what he really does is say what he thinks will get the most applause at the time; and sometimes he overshoots.
Whereas with this, it’s like…reasonable stuff that has been caught slipping out of Biden’s mouth, just reasonable stuff that most politicians won’t say.
Though I have to say, I really wish some reasonable stuff about a cease-fire and stopping arms shipments would’ve slipped out a few months ago.
Which is something that MAGAs say they like about Trump
Yeah. With Trump it’s a little different. I actually get it kind of. He’s authentic to himself in a way most politicians are not. He’s just a big fat mean asshole who likes shouting and cheeseburgers and raw-dogging porn stars. He doesn’t like paying taxes and he doesn’t like smart people who try to get one over on him. For the most part, what you see is what you get.
I think a lot of rural America has an absolute hatred for Washington, because Washington for the most part hasn’t given a fuck what happened to them for the last 50 years. And I think they see Trump, and say well, he’s an asshole, but he’s not one of those weird plastic people who’ve been stealing from my pension fund and making sure my health insurance doesn’t work, and he seems to hate them too and not afraid to get violent with them. Hey, that sounds pretty fuckin’ good from where I’m standing. He’s got my vote.
I’m not saying their assessment of the impact of Trump on their pension fund is accurate. But their read of him as a person, I think, is actually the root cause of why they like him and I think that part is true.
Though I have to say, I really wish some reasonable stuff about a cease-fire and stopping arms shipments would’ve slipped out a few months ago.
Yes. 😢
their read of him as a person, I think, is actually the root cause of why they like him
Yeah. They want a strong man to hurt all of the people that the alt-right media has told them are the cause of their problems. Only…
he’s not one of those weird plastic people who’ve been stealing from my pension fund and making sure my health insurance doesn’t work,
…is the exact opposite of true (he’s plastic, but angry plastic instead of bland plastic). Which brings me to…
He’s authentic to himself
I don’t think he is, though. I don’t even think he knows what that would look like. I don’t think he likes giving speeches, he just likes applause. I don’t think he wants to be president (and I don’t think he did in 2016 or 2020 either), he’s just terrified of what’ll happen if he’s not in the limelight anymore. I don’t think he likes Coca-Cola or Big Macs, I think he just does whatever will make the person/people in front of him say how great he is. I don’t think he has a self outside of what other people tell him it is.
Incidentally, that’s why he has a quarter million indictments.
he’s plastic, but angry plastic instead of bland plastic
Oh, I wasn’t saying he was honest. He presents himself as smart and rich, which is flaming bullshit. I think some of his followers believe him about that, but that’s not why they like him; there are plenty of genuinely smart and rich people they despise.
The awful neoliberal suit-wearing jerks are one kind of asshole who’s hurting their financial futures and the communities their kids have to live in, and they know that. But absolutely you’re right; Trump is something much, much worse and much more dark, and they’re making a terrifying mistake by supporting him just because he is (genuinely, and with real authenticity) not one of those people.
You may get this then:
https://www.cracked.com/blog/6-reasons-trumps-rise-that-no-one-talks-about
After all these years, I’ve never read anything that explains Trump supports so perfectly.
This was a good read, thanks for sharing
I think they see Trump, and say well, he’s an asshole, but he’s not one of those weird plastic people who’ve been stealing from my pension fund and making sure my health insurance doesn’t work, and he seems to hate them too and not afraid to get violent with them. Hey, that sounds pretty fuckin’ good from where I’m standing. He’s got my vote.
Rural Americans by and large don’t have pensions anymore if in fact they ever did, and they’ve been thoroughly brainwashed to believe that their insurance worked better back when you could be kicked off your plan for costing too much and be blacklisted from getting any in the first place if you had a pre-existing condition. No, the thing that they liked about Trump was that he said he hated all the people they hated too, and he gave them license to speak their hate aloud after decades of being told that they were bad people if they hated somebody because of some indelible feature of their origin or identity.
I seem to remember back in the early 2000s there was some media coverage of some local scoundrel running for some office and people were really taken with it. I think it was essentially a Trump prototype. That media coverage probably entered the subconscious of millions of voters.
Also, let’s not forget about Rob Ford. People’s love for an obvious con man is truly a vulnerability of all societies.
Though I have to say, I really wish some reasonable stuff about a cease-fire and stopping arms shipments would’ve slipped out a few months ago.
Lol, was about to comment something similar. He should have been publicly calling for a cease fire the second Israel made it clear they will murder civilians
I mean, even Trudeau put his foot in it with his “I think we need an immediate cease–uh, cease-cessation of–a…we need to see the firing cease…”
If Biden had done something like that, this would’ve been over before Christmas.
I’m an idiot when I talk to people all day everyday. The gaffs in speech aren’t what I care about. I care that Biden kept publicly supporting Israel for so long.
To your last point, compare and contrast with Obama, whose speech patterns were chock-full of long pauses where you could just tell he was doing higher-order political math on the next phrase. To an extent that’s because that’s what Obama had to do or else the Hannities and Carlsons of the world would find some minute quibble they could build out into an elaborate conspiracy with which to fan the right-wing outrage machines for another week… but for all the other problems I have with the man I do appreciate the no-fucks-given mindset Biden’s brought to the job. The right wing media hate machine has become fully decoupled from reality at this point; there’s no reason to soft-shoe around things that might set them off anymore.
That’s a super apt description of Obama speeches. Higher-order political math, lol
Now I wanna see a gif of Obama using the math overlay from this.
Look like a brilliant edit waiting to be done by someone less lazy than I am !
I get down voted here for saying that sometimes Joe Biden’s mouth gets out in front of his brain. But it’s so, so true.
What i find funny about that is…isn’t that the case for all “normal” people? Happens quite often to me and a few of my friends and acquaintances. I like Biden because he actually could be just a normal, run of the mill grandpa. He’s had his fair share of loss, he knows stuff and has a lot of general life expectancy…
I mean, look at what they’re doing in Pakistan right now. They didn’t like Khan so they’ve put him in prison, and when his party still won the election despite this, they tried to steal the election (and the state department still hasn’t said anything about this).
The US press didn’t really notice
They’re generally more interested in chasing down the next story, vs. spending more time on a current one.
Edit: I’ve apparently offended people with short attention spans.
An aide to Biden then appeared to inform the president that his microphone was still on.
“I’m on a hot mic here,” Biden replied. “Good. That’s good.”
<Dark Brandon laser eyes start charging up.>
The irony is funny, but that is a common idiom in english speaking countries. Biden isn’t literally going to speak to Netanyahu about converting to Christianity as if he’s some sort of political missionary.
Uh it sounds very much like an America idiom to me mate.
Cant say it’s something I’ve ever heard it in Australia, nor would i expect such a religious phrase (outside of expletives) to be that common.
I believe it is American specifically, I haven’t even heard it in Canada. But it is a very secular saying - it has a religious background but is used in irreligious contexts all the time.
It’s American specifically. “Come-to-Jesus” evokes the tent revival culture that started in the second great awakening in the 1830s and continues to the present day.
In the tent revival culture, an itinerant preacher will ride into a (typically small) town and pitch a tent for about a week or two (or more). They then attempt to “revive” the faith of the townspeople by preaching intensely for several hours at a time, sometimes for multiple times per day. In typical Christian fashion these services will include multiple invitations to literally “come to Jesus” by publicly confessing sins and professing faith before the whole group, thereby becoming born again. Regular church goers are expected to attend revival sessions every night when they’re in town.
Everything about the tent revivals evokes imagery of the early Christians in Acts and the epistles. Large crowds and mass conversions. That sort of thing.
and pitch a tent for about a week or two (or more)
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
Come to Jesus or cum to Jesus.
Yep. Some of these things get unhinged. People speaking in tongues, mass hysteria, chanting, singing, etc. It’s at these revivals that it definitely looks like the cult it really is.
So much LARPing.
Thank you for the context.
It’s very much an American (and specifically Christian) idiom.
I’ve never heard somebody who wasn’t nominally Christian use it.
I’m not, and I use it at work when someone is stepping out of line. However, I was raised Christian. I always assumed it was a southern saying like so much other shit that accidentally falls out of my mouth.
I’ve never heard it in NY
What is the idiom used for?
Like a stern talking to. To bring someone in line.
They are going to see the light whether they want to or not.
I mean, it’s more likely than placing conditions on arms sales or withholding support at the UN.
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All my bosses over the past twenty years have used the same term about either me or a coworker.
Oh it’s very much still in use.
Still, a more deft politician would avoid using that specific idiom when it comes to a conflict between Jews and (predominantly) Muslims.
He was talking to a US Senator, not an Israeli or a Palestinian
How does that make a difference? Even if it wasn’t on a hot mike, he would’ve risked the senator or someone around telling it to the press or anything like that. Even in ‘private’ conversation politicians should be careful about what they say.
“Risked?” I don’t know, I pretty much disagree with everything you’re saying here, and think you’re reading way too much into it
Have you ever avoided saying “It’ll be a slam dunk” in front of us Bostinians because you’re afraid we’ll interpret that as you assuming we’re all fond of Dunkin Donuts and that’s a generalization?
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I have no doubt he wants to finally explain to Bibi how weak he is domestically and picking a fight with Biden by meddling in US domestic politics can be a two way street. I don’t, however, believe Biden actually wants to stop the genocide. The point is, Bibi is very vulnerable to someone actually hitting his weak points for once and a vote of no confidence on the war cabinet is very possible.
If Biden had any sense, he would’ve already been going after Likud this whole time. Instead he’s been allowing himself to be dragged around by his ear while Bibi openly supports him getting replaced by Trump.
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“hot mic”
If he’s still selling them weapons for genocide and still running interference for them at the UN, he is still supporting genocide.
Biden needs to stop supporting genocide. Biden needs to have a come to Jesus moment.
I’m not getting the come to Jesus thing … what does it mean?
You’ve received several responses but the meaningful “come to Jesus” story actually relates to Saul (Paul, who is responsible for much of Christianity) on the road to Damascus.
Paul was persecuting primitive Christians and while he was traveling to Damascus to arrest them, he was temporarily blinded by divine intervention that led to his conversion and stopped him from continuing to persecute people. The dramatic intervention disabused him of the errant beliefs that caused him to injure people, in other words.
See: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conversion_of_Paul_the_Apostle
That’s what the comparison is talking about. It’s a metaphor that relates to needing a dramatic and often violent wakeup call to snap someone out of doing something wrong. From a Christian perspective you can see how Paul being shaken up enough to change his name, religion, profession, etc was a real “come to Jesus” moment.
That’s the key context I think you’re asking about. It’s not really about converting to Christianity. It’s more about having a BIG wakeup call that you’re on the wrong path (literally in Paul’s case) and you need to change your ways because you’re hurting people (or you’ll stay blinded if you’re Paul I guess).
Hope that helps!
This is great thanks!
It’s an idiom or phrase that means he’s going to yell at Netanyahu and possibly set an ultimatum.
I understand the meaning. What i dont get is the idiom.
As far as i know (and i am not religious) Jesus only got furious once, at people trying to make money off god and always talked about mans free will
It’s a moment of realization that makes you change your ways. It’s just really awkward phrasing since Netanyahu is a secular Jew.
https://www.dictionary.com/e/slang/come-to-jesus/
Just as finding Jesus is said to save a person’s soul, a come-to-Jesus meeting or moment results in new, though difficult, understanding or behavior (i.e., changing one’s ways).
By the the 1990s, the expression had become familiar enough to stand for such a meeting or moment all on its a own (e.g., Our son needs a come to Jesus about doing well in school or People need a come to Jesus about their smartphone addiction).
Come to Jesus is often seen as a business or workplace cliché. Supervisors, for instance, may have a come to Jesus meeting with employees if performance needs serious correction. Come-to-Jesus moment won Forbes’ magazine’s cheeky 2013 Jargon Madness competition, which pitted overused corporate buzzwords against each other à la March Madness basketball brackets.
Thanks. Not going to lie though… i hate it lol!
I’m sure Bibi shares your sentiment.
Just to make it clear. I hate the idiom. Not that Biden intends to confront Netanyahu
It is very funny to use that particular idiom about the leader of the Jewish state.
That’s how idioms ofter are: there’s nothing to get, only to know.
It goes back to tent revival events in the late 1800’s. People would literally come to Jesus and dedicate themselves to Christianity.
How does this translate into getting shouted at though
It’s supposed to mean that enough outside pressure has mounted to force the kind of introspection where you reconsider everything you think you know or are. In a way, you are releasing your ‘self’ in exchange for becoming one with the larger picture.
So you might have someone that let’s say has a drinking problem… They think they are managing and are not cognizant of how their behavior or actions are impacting others. You have an intervention so that the person can learn the weight of the burdens he’s made other people shoulder, forcing introspection and a “come to Jesus moment”
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Sounds like the bad guys
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I never took it as a biblical thing, because Christianity especially in the United States has very little to do with the bible. A “Come To Jesus” meeting is about demanding conformity in no uncertain terms
It means to repent.
It’s an enormous faux pas when you’re talking about a Jewish person that’s for damn sure
With Hamas being very clear about wanting to commit genocide, the choice is this conflict is not genocide vs. no genocide. The choice is about which side is given more opportunity to commit genocide. Horrific that is the choice, but it’s not like disarming the Israelis would result in fewer human deaths in that region.
Hamas does not have anything like the resources to actually enact a genocide and they never will. Regardless of this, the people of Palestine do not deserve to be executed en masse for Hamas’ crimes.
the fact this even needs to be said is fucking mortifying
It’s mystifying! Hamas is obviously a pretty evil organisation, but the fact that people seem to think this justifies what’s happening is horrifying.
Well, at least you’re open that you support Netanyahu’s genocide instead of flinging accusations.
When you colonize a region and then try to say it’s an US vs Them situation like you both should be allowed, it makes your argument a lot less valid. It’s not like these 2 peoples just woke up in a cage together. It’s a colony. One group forced themselves into the area.
This isn’t to say to genocide the Jews or something like your fucked up brain imagines is the only solution. But it does mean that the state of Israel doesn’t get to just stop here and keep all its genocidal spoils. It’s going to have to give up and lose some of its land and absolute power over these people. It has to stop treating palastinians like subhumans. It has to give up control over some things. As long as it’s unwilling to do so, it will continue creating people who hate it to the point of utter annihilation, and it will be the state of Israels fault for treating people that way.
“Genocide” LMAO
Are you denying it’s a genocide, or do you think Biden’s support of Netanyahu’s genocide is funny?
Not that either answer changes anything about who you are.
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I award him no credit for this. Same as we find out Republicans who privately despite Trump but publicly defend him.
On purpose accident?
That’s actually hilarious.
Other than sanctions and cutting off trade, what kind of pressure can the world put on Netanyahu to stop the madness in Gaza?
Biden doesn’t want to stop it, he wants to reduce the noise. And to achieve that his best option is to use indirect and direct support to knock Bibi out of control of the knesset. It’s something that should’ve been done since the inauguration. The idea that he was going to somehow get the support of Bibi in any capacity was idiotic.
https://nymag.com/intelligencer/article/the-biden-plan-to-ditch-israels-netanyahu.html
Edit: I’m genuinely curious what makes this so controversial of a take. That I’m arguing for realpolitik interventionism or that I’m criticizing biden?
You are attributing active malice, like Biden wants this shit to go on.
There is a big difference between not wanting to pressure somone to stop something vs WANTING that something to go on.
I’m sick of people acting like it’s somehow OUR responsibility to stop Israel.
WTF is Biden getting shit for some other asshole leader doing shitty things?
How about blaming Benjamin Netanyahu? Or blaming the assholes that voted for Netanyahu?
This whole Israel thing just smells like some Republican bullshit trying to blame Democrats for something ridiculous.
We continue to supply arms and rush to do so. That Bibi’s cabinet is full of genocidal maniacs(and that his coalition is specifically BUILT on those genocidal maniacs so it’s resistant to soft attempts to lower the temperature because that would result in the fall of Bibi’s government and his imprisonment for corruption) was known before the conflict even started. I don’t really know how you think people will interpret this. If you think Biden’s administration is unfairly tarred by their actions, maybe they shouldn’t have done it. Ignorance is a fig leaf.
And even this is a response to a domestic issue. That’s why I say Biden wants to reduce the noise. He’s certainly showed no interest in actually using leverage to halt the conflict.
Whether you like it or not Israel is considered an US ally and they are a democracy. Sometimes allies drag you into shit, because politics on a global scale is complicated.
Look at Afghanistan and Iraq and how many of our allies we dragged into shit. You can’t just say “no fuck off”, because that means you’re not really a reliable ally.
World politics is complicated, but like I said blaming Biden or wanting him to be some big dig swinger is just kids talk that don’t understand fuck all about politics.
Horseshit. Biden is NOW doing exactly what I said. Being hostile to Likud and leveraging the US’s position to freeze him out. The idea that we were somehow constrained by them being US allies before but aren’t constrained now is silly. It’s purely because he was too afraid of pissing off domestic Israel supporters and that fear led to the exact situation we’re in now. These are decisions made, not the ineffable ebb and flow of international relations. And they were the wrong decisions.
Ah yes, like how you said we were supposed to have the ceasefire on Monday after you knew the uncommitted vote was coming.
Fuck you.
Yeah good luck with that, I’m not certain Bibi is all that interested in what Jesus would have to say on the matter.
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It probably was just common usage, but it’s much funnier if he used it specifically because of bibi religion.
Supply Side Jesus.
Biden is going to extol the virtues of exploitation over eradication.
This is basically the capitalist model for foreign policy.
It was also the basis of the Roman empire.
Cute way of admitting that nothing Biden can do can do will please you I guess.
Because there’s no coming back from the sheer amount of support for genocide Biden has already promised, and delivered.
Do you sing praises of a mass murderer who stops with grandma, but killed everyone else?
Despite my best instincts, I’ll bite… When did Biden “promise support for genocide”?
- Biden is not in any way responsible for the October 7th terror attacks and war crimes (targeted killing of civilians, sexual violence and kidnapping, to name a few) that started this whole mess, Hamas (who are the ruling party of Gaza and have been for over a decade) are.
- Biden is also no in any way responsible for the Israeli response, nor is he in any control of the tactics used by the IDF in achieving their goals. Like every US President, real or imaginary, Biden will continue to support Israel because they are (a) our closest ally in the region (b) a home to many US citizens and a cultural site to many US jews, christians and muslims and © under constant threat of attack from every angle by enemies who in some cases have vowed to “wipe Israel of the map” (to name a few, Palestine, Lebanon, Jordan, Syria and Iran).
- Despite what lemmy-think might have one believe, neither the UN, the ICJ, or any reputable organization have been able to show evidence that escalates what we’re seeing in Gaza to any kind of war crime, let alone “genocide”. There are 2 million people living in Gaza, and if Israel’s goal was genocide we’d be seeing a lot more death and destruction than we are today. (Help elect Trump and I guess we might get a closer look at it.)
- The Biden administration has been much more effective at delivering aid (by air and now by sea) to Gazans than the UN, Hamas or anyone else.
Biden doesn’t want to see innocent civilians killed, be they Israeli Jews or Palestinian Arabs. Why would he?
Unlike Netanyahu and Hamas, Biden gains literally zero political benefit from the war. His life and his job would objectively be much easier if there was peace in the middle east. You know that as well as I do. In fact, I’d say it’s plainly obvious to anyone with half a brain. This war is a drain and a distraction from the US’s resources ability to defend Ukraine from Russia, it makes the region (and thus, the world) less safe, and it is nothing but a political vulnerability to Biden. And still, there is not a serious politician in this country that would even consider removing support of Israel in the wake of the October 7th attacks, especially given a hostage crisis that is now entering its 6th fucking month.
In other words, while you’re entitled to your subjective opinion that what’s happening in Gaza amounts to a genocide or other war crimes, you can’t seriously blame Biden for any of it.
If you’re looking for someone to blame here, look no further than Netanyahu’s government and Hamas–two entities that have repeatedly propped each other up as boogeymen in order to push their communities into the political fringe for the sake of power. Netanyahu literally funded and boosted Hamas, and Hamas has done everything to maximize civilian casualties (also a war crime, btw) on both sides of the conflict.
There have now been multiple reasonable ceasefire negotiations that the Biden administration has helped negotiate which Hamas has unilaterally rejected. The world is only waiting for Hamas to do what they should have done months ago: return the hostages, lay down their weapons, and turn over the war criminals and terrorists who made it their mission to rape, kill and pillage Israel on October 7th. The ball in unquestionably in their court, and it has been for months.
When did Biden “promise support for genocide”?
there’s numerous statements by Biden since then where Biden insists on ‘unconditionaly’ support for Israel.
Biden is not in any way responsible for the October 7th terror attacks and war crimes (targeted killing of civilians, sexual violence and kidnapping, to name a few) that started this whole mess, Hamas (who are the ruling party of Gaza and have been for over a decade) are. Biden is also no in any way responsible for the Israeli response, nor is he in any control of the tactics used by the IDF in achieving their goals. Like every US President, real or imaginary, Biden will continue to support Israel because they are (a) our closest ally in the region (b) a home to many US citizens and a cultural site to many US jews, christians and muslims and © under constant threat of attack from every angle by enemies who in some cases have vowed to “wipe Israel of the map” (to name a few, Palestine, Lebanon, Jordan, Syria and Iran).You’re right. Biden is not responsible for how others respond. He is, however uttelry responsible for his own acts. Including facilitating and expediting arms sales- which he, himself, has gone out of his way to make happen.
Despite what lemmy-think might have one believe, neither the UN, the ICJ, or any reputable organization have been able to show evidence that escalates what we’re seeing in Gaza to any kind of war crime, let alone “genocide”. There are 2 million people living in Gaza, and if Israel’s goal was genocide we’d be seeing a lot more death and destruction than we are today. (Help elect Trump and I guess we might get a closer look at it.)If the rampant devastation of Palestine isn’t enough of a clue, to the extent that half of the buildings in gaza are damaged or destroyed then perhaps you should look into statements by Netanyahu hismelf. Like how he described the second stage of the invasion as a ‘holy mission’, comparing it to Amalek- where the orders were to genocide everything. In the same speech he describes Gaza as a ‘Bastion of Evil’, and that the soldiers are ‘Obligated to Eradicate this Evil from the World’.
Or maybe, from the Deputing Knesset Speaker, Nissam Vaturi whose tweets are… incendiary. Literally. with comments like “we are too Humane. Burn Gaza now,” and perhaps, Pressiden Herzog who said "there are no innocent civillians in Gaza’; or perhaps the defense minister who vowed to eliminate everything.
The Biden administration has been much more effective at delivering aid (by air and now by sea) to Gazans than the UN, Hamas or anyone else.Did I mention he went out of his way facilitating arms deals?
Biden doesn’t want to see innocent civilians killed, be they Israeli Jews or Palestinian Arabs. Why would he?
Yeah. I did mention the arms sales. I don’t know why. you’d have to ask him. (oh. I do know. he’s a zionist).
Unlike Netanyahu and Hamas, Biden gains literally zero political benefit from the war. His life and his job would objectively be much easier if there was peace in the middle east. You know that as well as I do. In fact, I’d say it’s plainly obvious to anyone with half a brain. This war is a drain and a distraction from the US’s resources ability to defend Ukraine from Russia, it makes the region (and thus, the world) less safe, and it is nothing but a political vulnerability to Biden. And still, there is not a serious politician in this country that would even consider removing support of Israel in the wake of the October 7th attacks, especially given a hostage crisis that is now entering its 6th fucking month.
You’re right that it’s a distraction from Ukraine and elsewhere. Ask yourself how Hamas got into Israeli systems and evaded detection on Oct 7th. by the way, Israeli cybersecurity is some of the best in the world. they had help, either from Iran, or Russia. As for what Biden has to gain from the War? nothing. But he does have something to loose.
In other words, while you’re entitled to your subjective opinion that what’s happening in Gaza amounts to a genocide or other war crimes, you can’t seriously blame Biden for any of it.
I can blame him for supporting it though. which is what I’m doing.
If you’re looking for someone to blame here, look no further than Netanyahu’s government and Hamas–two entities that have repeatedly propped each other up as boogeymen in order to push their communities into the political fringe for the sake of power. Netanyahu literally funded and boosted Hamas, and Hamas has done everything to maximize civilian casualties (also a war crime, btw) on both sides of the conflict.
I am represented by neither Hamas nor Netanyahu. I am represented by Biden.
There have now been multiple reasonable ceasefire negotiations that the Biden administration has helped negotiate which Hamas has unilaterally rejected. The world is only waiting for Hamas to do what they should have done months ago: return the hostages, lay down their weapons, and turn over the war criminals and terrorists who made it their mission to rape, kill and pillage Israel on October 7th. The ball in unquestionably in their court, and it has been for months.
The “ball” is unquestionably in the IDF’s court. and has been since Oct 8th. If the IDF is so god damn concerned about getting the hostages back, then why have they killed far more than they’ve rescued?
Despite what lemmy-think might have one believe, neither the UN, the ICJ, or any reputable organization have been able to show evidence that escalates what we’re seeing in Gaza to any kind of war crime, let alone “genocide”. There are 2 million people living in Gaza, and if Israel’s goal was genocide we’d be seeing a lot more death and destruction than we are today. (Help elect Trump and I guess we might get a closer look at it.)
The UN has a very specific definition of genocide under Article II (bolding mine):
https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/genocide.shtml
"In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:
Killing members of the group;
Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group."
So, point for point, Israel has done ALL of this in Gaza with the exception of the final bullet point, which Russia is doing in Ukraine.
“In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such [snip…]
The part you’re not bolding is perhaps the most important part.
“killing members of a group” is obviously not genocide or every war in history would be considered genocide; “killing members of a group” with intent to destroy that group is what specifically elevates war into genocide.
In other words, intent, context and the details really matter here.
We already know Hamas’ intent is genocide of all Israeli Jews, as was laid out in clear worlds in their founding 1988 charter. And when people say that “Palestine should be free from the river to the sea.”, they seem to be calling for some kind of genocidal one state solution that erases Israel from the map and implies nothing good for the Israeli Jews who currently live there and whose ancestors have lived their for thousands of years. On top of that, many of Hamas’ actions on October 7th (violence targeted exclusively at civilians, rape, theft of civilian property, kidnapping, hiding behind their own civilians as a human shield, etc.) are war crimes.
Does Netenyahu’s government want genocide? It’s debatable. Some of the rhetoric of Israeli ministers has been at least inappropriate and at worst borderline genocidal. But If they only wanted to kill all Palestinians, they wouldn’t only be fighting in Gaza and they would likely have killed many more civilians indiscriminately (there are 2 million people living in Gaza after all). But more important than those are the fact that Israel seems to be following the international wartime rules of “proportionality”, and seems to be able to justify their use of force in the vast majority of cases. They do, in fact, have a right to defend themselves from terrorist threats and wage a military campaign in the hopes of eliminating those threats and saving the hostages (who have been held in captivity for almost HALF A YEAR now.) This is exactly why the International Court of Justice fell short of accusing Israel of genocide.
All that said, the war is horrible and the suffering of civilians is an unspeakable tragedy. The only real solution for peace is a two-state solution under which Israeli Jews and Palestinian Arab Muslims can coexist and live together in a land that they have shared for centuries, or really, millennia. Hamas should release the hostages and accept the ceasefire deal so that the world can move on from this ugly and tragic war.
>There have now been multiple reasonable ceasefire negotiations that the Biden administration has helped negotiate which Hamas has unilaterally rejected
Hamas has made offers that have been ignored as well.
(a) Their “offers” are unacceptable because the involve returning the hostages over the span of months, not days. (b) the last time Hamas and Israel had a ceasefire, Hamas broke the ceasefire by attacking Isreal on October 7th. © Hamas are losing this war, very badly, and are not in a position to dictate their terms on Israel.
If you want a ceasefire, and you should, stop defending Hamas and start realizing that they are the ones who need to surrender and release the damn hostages. God damn.
in arabic, there is no idiomatic equivalent to “wipe off the map.”
you’re regurgitating imperialist propaganda.
If you’re going to embarrassingly try to argue literal semantics, then you should at least know that Persians (“Iranians”) speak Persian, not Arabic. 🤦
Iran has repeatedly called for the complete and total destruction (see: actual genocide) or Israel and its people over multiple decades. Iran funds and supports Hamas, Hezbollah, the Houthi’s and many other extremist groups in the region.
Hamas didn’t start this, Britain and the UN did.
If you’re going to go back 100 years, why stop there?
Why not blame the Ottoman Empire, the Rashidun Islamic Caliphate, the Byzantine Empire of Eastern Rome, etc.
The fact is that Palestine and Israel as countries were created at roughly the same time. Israeli Jews have existed there for thousands of years. The tribe called the Philistines have been there possibly just as long, and supposedly the were often at war with the Judah and Israelites. Though the Philistines were neither arabs nor muslims, who came in around 500 years ago during the Rashidun Islamic Caliphate (still a long time, longer than America has existed).
There has never in thousands of years of history been a free, self-governed, single state of Palestine. Both the Israelis and Palestinians have cultural and historic claims over the region going back hundreds, if not thousands, of years. This suggests to me that the only real and viable solution for peace is a two-state solution in which both sides lay down arms and learn to coexist peacefully. Neither Netanyahu nor Hamas are truly interested in a two-state solution, and as such I consider them both to be enemies of peace.
(And before you spend to much time defending Hamas, please know that disproportionate violence targeted directly at civilians, sexual violence against civilians, kidnapping of civilians, hiding militants behind a civilian human shield, etc., are ALL actual war crimes, and that Hamas has openly supported genocide against Israeli Jews since their founding charter in 1988.)
>turn over the war criminals and terrorists who made it their mission to rape,
I have never seen credible evidence of this.
>Biden is also no in any way responsible for the Israeli response, nor is he in any control of the tactics used by the IDF in achieving their goals.
under pax americana, he can decide whether Israel comes to the table and stops shooting. instead, he continues to arm and fund them and say he, too, is a zionist
>And still, there is not a serious politician in this country that would even consider removing support of Israel in the wake of the October 7th attacks, especially given a hostage crisis that is now entering its 6th fucking month.
tlaib and omar have been quite vocal as well as may others. the only way you can claim this isn’t misinformation is by playing at no true Scotsman.
Being “quite vocal” is purely politics. Actions speak louder than words, and you know that.
It’s not the same thing as disarming our closest ally in the Middle East, which again, is something that NO U.S. President would do. Not Joe Biden, Not Donald Trump, Not Bernie Sanders, Not Ted fuckin’ Cruz or whatever asshole the Republicans will come up with next. Israel is too important to America culturally and strategically, and they are under too many active threats from their neighbors.
America will continue to support Israel unless Netanyahu really takes the gloves off and starts indiscriminately waging genocide. Unless Trump is reelected, in which case he’ll probably directly help “clean up” Gaza and the West Bank, and then you’ll really have something to be angry about. I guess we’ll see…
kidnapping and murder are crimes, not war crimes. Hamas isn’t an army, and they don’t control a state. there is no war.
Why would Bibi listen to someone born in Palestine?
Probably just something about a fig tree anyway.
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oh, whoops, i dropped my monster statement that i use for my come-to-jesus dong
