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- cross-posted to:
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Norway, Ireland and Spain recognized a Palestinian state on Wednesday in a historic move that drew condemnation from Israel and jubilation from the Palestinians. Israel ordered back its ambassadors from Norway and Ireland.
It was a lightning cascade of announcements. First was Norway, whose Prime Minister Jonas Gahr Støre said “there cannot be peace in the Middle East if there is no recognition.”
Gahr Støre said the Scandinavian country will officially recognize a Palestinian state as of May 28. “By recognizing a Palestinian state, Norway supports the Arab peace plan,” he said.
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Just took a look at the reddit comments on a similar piece of news. It’s a cesspool of just-created accounts up voting each other on pro-Israel comments.
It’s a pity some influentiable people won’t be able to immediately notice that they are bots.
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That’s not true at all. I never got in trouble on reddit until I started arguing with hamas supporters. Those bans came fast.
“Hamas supporters”
I never got in trouble on reddit until I started arguing with hamas supporters.
Right, right… I guess Israel just couldn’t outspend Hamas on reddit with all their hundreds of billions in US handout-money, eh?
do you mean people critical of the israeli government and the way that the idf are conducting the war? is everyone who disagrees with you hamas?
People or bots supporting hamas is hamas enough. From the river to the sea. You can play nuance armchair quarterback if you want. I don’t.
The Palestinian people deserve to be free from their oppressors. Calling for an end to the insane actions by Israel is not pro Hamas, it’s just pro-human decency.
And anyone saying anything else is supportive of and complicit in genocide and war crimes. Fuck Zionists.
Yep r/worldnews went from condemning Russia for their war crimes on Ukraine to damn near universally praising and supporting Israel’s war crimes on Palestine.
Sadly, I don’t think it’s all bots and propagandists. A lot of them are real people that really do have that level of cognitive dissonance.
Sadly, I don’t think it’s all bots and propagandists.
You don’t need that many bots and propagandists when liberals are so ready to fall in line.
Ukraine didn’t attack Russia first with rapist maniacs. If it did I think you’d find more people would turn a blind eye to Russian atrocities too.
“They committed war crimes first, so we can commit war crimes back!”
That’s the argument you’re using.
To me this is the issue. An elected government attacked its neighbour. Sure they (hamas) used shit soldiers with no plan other than to draw their enemy into a media war and the cost of their citizens and children. But they none the less attacked.
If the tow arms are separate then they should have cooperated with returning hostages.
How nice of you to forget the other 70 years of Israel killing Palestinians.
Both sides have been killing each other for those 70 years. Before that it was just the Jews getting killed which apparently is ok with you
Before that the Zionists, not the “normal” Jews, where doing terrorist attacks on Palestine. Just like they do now. This shit comes from XIX century. And Zionists have always have the same relation with Judaism like AlQaeda with Muslims.
Your comment made me finally go there and check. Wow, the comments here and there are night and day. The most common comment on similar threads is “Norway, Spain and Ireland are showing the world that terrorism works”.
If terrorism didn’t work, the CIA wouldn’t do so much of it.
Reddit has been taken over by US-government bots.
You could have stopped at “cesspool”.
Did not expect Spain on this list, good for them!
Nobody expects the Spanish recognition!
Leave.
You forgot the “take my upvote and” part
We don’t do that here. :P
It will take a while before we can shake off the redditisms, I think. But I’m with ya
Recently, Spain declined a ship carrying weapons to Israel to use their port.
Not thanks to the P$0€.
Spain has been rallying for this for months! They’re pulling their weight in this issue.
Do you think this may have something to do with the declining votes for the Catalan separatist parties?
No idea. I suppose Catalan and Basque separatism is quite different from Palestinian. Maybe it’s due to Spains proximity to the Arab world?
Those parties are in the current Spanish government. Also the issue of independence is talked about less. Hence this is possible.
Weird, but I guess modern times. Back in the days they got rid of Jews, Muslims and what they considered the wrong type of Christians.
Back in the days
Back in the day, Spain was also the first to go to war against European fascism.
edit: Oh look - downvotes. I guess somebody must be really upset that anyone would dare raise a finger against fascists…
I wonder who that could be.
In 1492, King Ferdinand II of Aragon and Queen Isabella I of Castille issue the Alhambra Decree, mandating that all Jews be expelled from the country
Between 1492 and 1610, some 3,000,000 Muslims voluntarily left or were expelled from Spain
The autos de fé of the mid-century virtually put an end to Spanish Protestantism, which was, throughout, a small phenomenon to begin with. After 1562, though the trials continued, the repression was much reduced. About 200 Spaniards were accused of being Protestants in the last decades of the 16th century.
The Spanish Inquisition was a judicial institution that lasted between 1478 and 1834. Its ostensible purpose was to combat heresy in Spain, but, in practice, it resulted in consolidating power in the monarchy of the newly unified Spanish kingdom.
The true reason of the Alhambra Decree was that the kings had to return a lot of money to the Jews and the fastest way to cancel that dept was to kick them out using the religious card. Just like France did to the Templars.
Back in the day is half a millennium ago.
Unlike some countries, they saw the error of their ways.
Spain has XXI century Western Values, unlike the US which seems to have never entered the XXI century when it comes to Humanist values and Israel which at best has the Western Values of early XX century Germany.
Ireland in particular makes sense. They know a thing or two about territorial disputes.
Modern Ireland is an absolute shit show tho.
I haven’t seen a bigger nation of virtual signaling government being completely at odds with their population. It’s a glorified tax heaven and I no longer wish to call it my home. I have voted with my wallet and moved out.
Irish history is messy and very few even bother to look deeper into it.
frankly, I don’t know of many countries, if any, whose government isn’t at odds with its population.
Haiti (no government anymore)
What about the Irish govt is virtue signaling? Genuine question, I don’t know much about Ireland except for the Civil War.
Edit: gonna go ahead and say the lack of response means you’re talking out of your ass.
They are still right on this specific issue though
I have voted with my wallet and moved out.
You sound like white South African “expats” that fled to go live in some Whitetopia.
Why? How is it a race thing?
guy who has only seen south african expats, watching his second emigration: getting a lot of “south african expat” vibes from this
I didn’t say it’s a “race thing” (whatever that means) for Captain-I-Hate-Ireland up there… I said they sound no different than the whiny white ex-South Africans that fled to rich western countries but can’t stop whining about South Africa.
They probably are super insecure in their decision and need infinite amounts of stranger confirmation or smh
Expected Ireland but was surprised by the other two. Good for all three countries.
Are Norwegian people pro-Palestinian or is this just the government? Any Norwegians here?
Norwegians are generally leaning pro-Palestine.
In a recent survey, 46% of Norwegians responded that they have more sympathy with Palestinians, whereas only 12% have more sympathy with Israelis. 32% responded that their sympathy with Palestinians has increased in light of recent events.
I can imagine several reasons why Norway is so different from for example Germany and France in this regard.
One is that we have a pretty well-organized civil society, including an organized Jewish community that is actively outspoken about Israeli extremism. My impression is that leading voices in the Mosaic community in Norway are frequently outspoken on the side of humanity.
Another reason is of course that we are still bitter about the collapse of the Oslo Accords. There’s simply no question Israel were the ones who killed it.
Even before this, Israel might have had less goodwill in Norway following the Lillehammer affair where Mossad murdered some random waiter who was on his way home from the cinema with his pregnant wife. One of the agents involved in placing 13 bullets in Ahmed Bouchikhi has since stated that they knew they were shooting the wrong man.
More importantly however, it probably relates to the story we tell ourselves as a nation.
We’re in all likelihood prouder of our war efforts than most of Europe, and certainly more than pro-Israeli countries like Germany and France. A lot of us (myself included) have family members who helped Jews flee the country following the occupation, at the risk of death penalty should they get caught.
The author of our national anthem took active part in the Dreyfus affair, among other things writing in a French newspaper that the French government was the “most shameless of any civilized people”.
Other important national poets dedicated their lives to giving Jews right to statehood, wrote poems urging people to wake the fuck up to the horrors of nazism, or died bombing Berlin.
These people, among others, make up the core of what we consider Norwegian national identity. As a result the average Norwegian might be less afraid of criticizing Israel than the average German (or French), as we consider ourselves to be firmly footed on the right side of history.
Of course, history is more complicated than that. A lot of us will simply not read Hamsun, and never mind that Jews had to be allowed into the Kingdom in the first place. History is complicated, but the stories we choose to tell and the ways we choose to frame them matters a lot.
Also, Norwegians are pretty left-leaning, and we put a lot of effort promoting ourselves as a peace nation. Probably doesn’t hurt either.
The Vikings really got their shit together. From raiding and pillaging to having one of the the highest standards of living in the world. If only more countries would follow their example!
They’re not vikings - that job description went extinct a long time ago. Rape is frowned upon in Norway these days, anyway.
The vikings got a bit of a bad reputation, probably in large part because they were not too popular amongst munks in England (who were avid writers). Sure, there was raping and plundering, but not necessarily so much worse than other peoples, and there was also trade and coexistence. We had particularly close relations to Scotland, and England is hardly in the position to accuse anyone else of plundering! ;)
Fun fact about the word viking: It literally means someone from a “vik”, which is contemporary Norwegian for a cove. More traditionally, it’s a dwelling by the coast, which explains the many -wich-towns in northern UK: The vikings would settle, usually for salt supplies, and name the place something ending with -vik.
So a Viking is not a job description as much as someone dwelling by the sea!
So a Viking is not a job description as much as someone dwelling by the sea!
I’ll consider myself corrected.
The vikings got a bit of a bad reputation,
It wouldn’t even be a problem if it wasn’t for all kind of neo-nazis trying to appropriate everything Nordic to fill up the hole where their “Aryanism” fantasies used to be. And they love those descriptions the monks left of the vikings… when it comes to the things neo-nazis admire it’s a question of the rape-ier the better - as long as the raping is being done by somebody white.
There is also the fact that thousands of Norwegians served in Lebanon for 20 years and witnessed IDF first hand. They took their stories home with them. I served in Kosovo and most of my colleagues had spent years in Lebanon. One time a very Christian solider watching the news in a joint TV room comments loudly and negativeo on palestinians in a news story and it almost came to blows. No one liked Hezbollah, but many hated the IDF. I heard the story of the Qana massacre from a Norwegian patrol that was present (the wiki article dosent mention them.) To hear the story how they had to shut the shelter door on civilians as there was no more room is enough to break your heart.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qana_massacre?wprov=sfla1
Fuck IDF it took them less than 80 years to turn in to the SS
Y’all got a ton of roundabouts on your roads. I love it! I’ve literally complained to my home town while they’re in the planning stage for 2 new traffic lights.
We have a large center of town roundabout and a few small ones. No idea why they won’t pursue that option.
Don’t get freaked out, it’s platonic, but I love you. That write up was so detailed! I wish journalists read your notes.
amazing write-up, thanks!
Most people are anti genocide at the very least. The only person that I personally know that has vocally supported Israel was part of the political party FRP (think wannabe republicans/Trump supporters).
I don’t know the actual demographics, but I can say one sees a lot of Palestinian support in the streets. Many demonstrations and such. But I think the issue has gone well past the former xenophobic line. Seems to me many people I would have otherwise expected to be opposed to antizionists are still like, “maybe genociding children isn’t the right thing to do.”
Afaik both of them. It’s very good that they do this, more governments should follow, and more people should rally together to do this.
In my country on the other hand, the people are solidly pro-Palestine, but the government is way too Israel-oriented.
My own view is that ideally, both countries should be recognised and Israel should retreat from all West Bank and Gazan territories, as well as the Golan heights.
CIA-backed coup in 3, 2, 1…
In Norway, Ireland and Spain? Jfc
Yes
*an historic move
No, it was actually correct. A historic move.
No. Fuck that and fuck you. The H is in history is not silent. It is a consonant.
