I mean, it’s not very cool if the good people living here have to suffer for it. Wishing for collapse isn’t progressive or leftist - it’s just defeatist.
Wishing for the collapse of the current system is very leftist. In fact, you objectively can’t be considered leftist if you support anything about the imperialist, colonialist, capitalist US system. There are zero redeeming features about our nation. It should die.
I’d prefer gradual reform over collapse. Less shocking to our culture/economy that way I think.
Yeah well gradual reform is right-wing liberal propaganda that makes marginalized groups suffer even more for our own privilege. It doesn’t work.
Just to be clear if you had a magic button that would result in guaranteed gradual reform if you pressed it. And not pressing it would result in collapse.
You would press the button, right?
I would kill the person who was forcing me to push such an absurd button. I’d celebrate the death of any nation that supported the button’s existence
How do you feel about democracies? Like say it post collapse and revolution. You ended up on top. Would you create a democracy?
This may come as an absolute shock, but this is a post gleefully celebrating the idea of the downfall of a genocidal regime
If you want to discuss anarchist theory, there are much better forums for that than 196. Too many libs here.
Liberals themselves have told me:
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We are a “first past the post” electoral system. That alone should disillusion you of hope for any change through voting.
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Biden is “the most progressive president we’ve ever had.” This is probably sadly true, which again shows that anyone who cares about marginalized groups should hope for the collapse of such an outrageously atrocious system.
Collapse is best. We should work towards collapse.
Edit: Autocorrect sucks donkey ass
i don’t think the left wing is best positioned to take power if there was a collapse
i think a collapse would bring the us significantly more right wing
It’s never how it works. See, we get a century or so of dictatorships, with each new guy overthrowing the previous and promising to be better, and failing to be.
Somewhere along the line (because for some reason we won’t do this in advance) intellectuals will in secret start developing some rules for a public-run government (democracy or sortition are popular), but no political leader or revolutionary leader will be actually willing to try them (because they like the power), until absolutely everyone is tired of the wars and coups because absolutely everyone has close friends and relatives they had to put into the cold ground.
And then the new Communist / Socialist / Anarchist / Whatever United States will rise, since the point is to be able to change the rules without someone shooting someone else.
Which is what happens when either the legislature, executive or courts collapse into corruption and seize power. The four boxes of liberty are a warning the first three (soapbox, ballot box, jury box) are all that keep the ammunition box closed and unused.
Yeah we’re a nation of shit people overall. All the more reason collapse is best overall. I’m willing to suffer and die if it means Palestinians and immigrants can be spared
but if the right wing took power of america’s arsenal i think more Palestinians and immigrants would die
…ah. here it is.
That Biden part is a strawman
I’ve seen a lot of libs say that on lemmy.
You haven’t seen liberal Democrats stating that Biden is the most progressive president we’ve ever had? It’s a very common sentiment in liberal spaces like reddit, 4chan, and lemmy.world
Give an example in a top 5% subreddit.
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Wishing for the collapse of the current system is very leftist
And see the imperialist, colonialist, capitalist China and Russia rise to wreck the world as they see fit just like how USA do? How very leftist of you.
How is it different when the USA does it?
A true anti-fascist opposes the acts, not the nation.
Nationalism is fascism.
No different, Just like hiding behind leftist agenda while pushing your anti-us one is no different than the right-wing trying to hide their fascism while pretend to do it for the people. Also you get someone who’s not even trying to hide their intention if US collapse.
I’ve always been quite open about supporting the downfall of genocidal regimes, including the US
A leftist US citizen has no control over the Chinese or Russian government. Excusing your own country’s crimes because other countries do it as well is a wild stance and a disingenuous attempt to distract people from taking action. You are responsible for your own government.
“Wishing for the collapse of the current system is very leftist.” - 16 upvotes, 0 downvotes.
And y’all wonder why people don’t take the left seriously.
Hi friend, you seem to be* confused. Blahaj has downvotes disabled, so the count is almost always going to be zero. The only downvotes you may potentially see come from your own server.
I know in this case you might be upset that this person has 0 downvotes, but the reason Blahaj has them disabled is because bigots often use them to shutdown, and try and hide, trans people’s comments and posts. Even when they are not saying anything controversial.
“The reason people support genocide, fascism, and capitalism is because of posts on 196” -You
The right was never going to support anti-fascism regardless of what the left does or says.
Lemmy’s gonna lemmy
Worked out great for the KPD in 1930s Germany…
Yeah. And asinine.
“Millions of people will suffer because capitalists! uwu ✌️✌️🌈⭐️🤣🤣🤣🤣”
And op is saying some shit about just giving governing to natives, but those would be the first people to suffer hard in a collapse. They just want people to hurt.
Accelerationism is a bigoted ideology that seeks to pit the minority against the majority during a state of economic and political collapse. It looks okay in a vacuum and on paper, but the reality is that in the event of widespread instability sociopaths would almost certainly seek power by convincing the majority population that it’s minorities are the root of all their problems. You now have a second Holocaust on your hands.
Furthermore, I’m almost certain that it is spread by Nazis seeking to harness the left’s hatred of the West in order to achieve their goal of “cleansing the white race” because I’ve observed that accelerationism is extremely popular with Nazis. They believe that a collapse will allow them to exterminate anyone they believe to be degenerate or inferior without being impeded. The extreme left, like always, is getting suckered into believing in a post-crash utopia and is helping them spread their disgusting ideology.
Sir, you are almost certainly a Nazi or a Nazi’s unwitting cockholster. That makes me extremely disappointed because I know you didn’t used to be like this.
You wanna make a real change? That means you have to actually get out from behind your PC and start targeting common “issues”. You have to tackle the “problems” that the US is facing head-on. None of this cowardly, keyboard-warrior bullshit where you simp for some kind of fake, Nazi-inspired utopia and hope that something better will replace the US when the US collapses (spoilers: it’ll only get worse). You have to actually take matters into your own hands.
You won’t though, because you don’t actually care, you just want to watch the world burn. You’ve drunk your flavor aid and now you’re dying and can’t see straight. Your mind has been poisoned to the point where you can’t see the harm that your rhetoric threatens or who your rhetoric actually serves. As such, I’m not interested in arguing with you because I know you’ve convinced yourself that you’re right and as such, nothing I can say will convince you otherwise. I’m more concerned about others following you while believing they’re somehow doing good.
I’m not a sir, I’m not an accelerationist, and I actually do care. Unlike these fucking self-absorbed liberals, I care about groups like Palestinians, immigrants, and the many, many demographics we exploit for our well-being. I’m sorry you libs don’t give a rat’s ass.
No one believes that you actually believe any of that.
If someone can’t believe that anti-fascists exist, then I’m not sure what to tell you
We believe anti-fascists exist and are extremely important. You just seem to be an idiot.
“Opposing a fascist nation is idiotic” -definitely an anti-fascist /s
Brilliant take. What’s it like being a reactionary with leftist aesthetics? Does Putin pay you for this comrade or is it all of your own volition?
“Everyone to the left of Reagan is a Russian psyop/bot”
I’m getting a blackout on my neoliberal bingo card today!
It’s interesting you seem to think that exploitation will… Slow down?
Lol
The downfall of a genocidal regime would certainly help
Do you think it’s downfall would be brought down by someone better?
This is depressingly naive…
It’s enough for me just to smile happily at the idea of the downfall of a horrible genocidal state that has brought nothing but oppression and destruction in its wake :3
This is like being happy an evil company is going under while the CEO and their cronies have already taken their golden parachute on the next project.
Like… Nothing’s changed. The entity is not a person. Nothing has been stopped. If anything they were just allowed to get away with it, while the suffering of everyone affected remains.
You’re allowed to be happy, but you’re naive to think this is the end of anything… Or even a push in a positive direction. No one’s going to let you have that narrative when it’s presented openly.
“We can’t be happy Jeffrey Dahmer’s gone because there are other serial killers afoot”
collapse
Yeah … it almost certainly won’t. The world’s largest economy and millitary will still be unmatched, except now they’re under the control of mask-off christofascists. They’re evil, but unfortunately they’re not stupid.
Everyone in the free world will be in for a bad time to varying degrees. I can promise you the new regime won’t be isolationists.
Yikes
Yikes indeed (scroll down for USAmerica defenders)
Dolphins and rainbows? What kind of LSD has OP been taking? Yeah, America is a hypocrite, and its politicians are liars who selectively apply “justice”. American exceptionalism DOES indeed seem like a joke, and it is arguably far from the best Western or “democratic” country, but what country would OP say is the model we should all follow? OP, you obviously hate the USA. What country is the best in your opinion? I hate shit countries, but I sure as fuck would rather eat this shit over the shit I see in some countries.
I’m anarchist, so this is a hard question to answer
All states will devolve into fascism. The USA is just a lot more egregious than most, and it’s very obvious that the world would be much better off were it to die.
If you think a collapse (and somehow having the indigenous take control through some mysterious force of the Abrahadraba) is anarchism, then you clearly don’t know what that actually means.
I say this not as an anarchist,but as a baseline good person: Death to the USA
Your posting power is unmatched
o7 Thank you
I was foolish to think I could just post this though without attracting flies
This is what the phrase “can’t see past their nose” looks like. OP has correctly identified a problem, and identified the fault. They just haven’t internalized the wide reaching effects of a total dismantling.
This is not something that’s going to be good for people like you’re hoping. This is going to hurt a lot, and if history is to believed it won’t be replaced by the people who share your views. It’ll be another future fascist government.
Almost like it’s a post on 196 celebrating the idea of the collapse of a genocidal regime
I swear debatelords are beside themselves if they are asked to let people enjoy things
You’re going to have difficulty finding an audience to sit there and listen to you celebrate something that will actively bring more suffering to others than the current status quo.
Yeah the 70% of people here who support border fascism would probably not be too happy if their shit nation collapsed, it’s true
I’m saying I’d be happy to see this genocidal state die
Self imploding genocidal states are not generally replaced by better people.
Haven’t really seen you address this anywhere and it gives the appearance that your intentionally arguing in bad faith.
I’m not arguing at all. I’m celebrating the idea of a horrible nation that’s brought nothing but harm collapsing.
I have ideas, but I certainly wouldn’t try to engage in a thread like this that’s filled with pearl-clutching American liberals and even overt racists.
“Everyone that disagrees with me is bad”
You’re in your own home instance. If the vast majority is disagreeing with you and your home instance has nothing to say you might consider reevaluating your position.
I’ve been told the majority of people believe we should be supporting Israel and committing border fascism, so I’m not too interested in what the majority of USAmericans think. Yet another reason to smile while thinking about its collapse
It’d be nice if we didn’t kill the world when we do, but we will. And if the empires that are eager to snap up the corpse weren’t demonstrably worse.
So I suppose you oppose the United States of America then, since its very existence is destroying the world
So once again, my post
It is better than the conditions 50% of the planet’s populace live in, even if at least 10% of that was caused by the USA. If you have a collapse, you’ll get at least partially what’s shown in Civil War (2024).
Better because it relies on the suffering and exploitation of those in the global south, so again: See post
The world will be better off without the USA
Edit: That’s a bullshit movie BTW. It’s like a redditor’s ignorant idea of what would happen.
Unless you propose that nearly every nation in the world collapse, the global south would be further exploited to fill the vacuum created by the hole in exports of electrical machinery, which all developing and above nations need.
Why not collapse Russia first?
deleted by creator
Do not forget about every other empire like russia and china.
We could whatabout all day long
Locking this. ~70 reports from 3 people (two of them the same person) is abuse of the reporting system. Also lots of bad faith arguing going on.
“We’re only gonna die of our own arrogance. That’s why we might as well take our time.”
Recommend watching Civil War
