I am dissapointed in my peers. For years I have always been told to stay away from Apple devices and the company in general. However, no one who said that actually used their devices, or used them but not recently (some had like iPhone 4s in the past). Their knowledge was always based on some 3rd hand impressions or internet related peer pressure.
I am in the EU, and Apple devices aren’t as popular as in the US, mostly everyone uses an Android phone and a Windows machine. That also led me using Android and Windows in my daily activities, for the last 15 years. After many phones, starting with HTC Wildfire, i have continously been let down by my phone every 1 to 3 years after purchase.
First i was buying flagships, then mid-high, then back to non-pro flagship variants. I was also trying diffenent brands; HTC, LG, Sony, Samsung, Xiaomi, Nokia, OnePlus. When my last phone died, and i had to buy a new one, i had no idea what to get.
Everything seemed bad, i had them, they look the same, software looks the same, i was afraid of picking a “wrong” phone again. Every single one of them had some issue i couldn’t get over. Either notification problems, bad battery life, slow performance on camera, issues with sharing stuff, fingerprint annoyances, restarts…
Mind you, not everything was on a single device. One had great battery life but i wouldn’t get messages sometimes, other was great but battery life was poor, and on most of them the camera was laggy or buggy.
1 year ago, maybe a bit more, it dawned on me that the only brand i haven’t used anything from is Apple, so i got a basic iPhone 13 to “check it out”, planning on using it for a week or two just to see what the fuss is about. I was using my Android device as the main phone, and the iPhone as a second phone, I wasn’t ready for the jump.
After a week i found myself doing everything on the iPhone apart from voice calls, so then i finally took the SIM and retired my Android phone. 6 months later, my Windows laptop battery died and the repair would cost more than what the laptop is worth. So i decided to purchase a thin and portable laptop with intention to install Debian on it, as i was done with Win11 bugs and “features”.
After looking for 2-3 weeks, comparing different laptops, i was set on a HP 14inch laptop with a price tag of about €1300. Then i remembered that i am still thinking with my peers in mind. They were enraged on how i “betrayed” them by switching to iPhone.
I decided to look up Mac laptops and found out that they are actually very similary priced as the one i wanted to buy. I got out and purchased a M2 Air, basic configuration. I had no idea about the iPhone-Mac compatibility and integrations. Found out about AirDrop and other features. I was in love with this new combo that, cliche, “just works”.
My “friends” literally went 180 on me just for the dumb reason of using one brand instead of the other. None of them has actually tried to use Apple hardware. They were mocking me about being “locked in”, “fallen for their marketing”, and other stuff. “How do you like your iCloud subscription?”, things like that.
I have to tell you, i do not use any paid service from Apple. I succesfully conected my Apple devices to my home server where i keep my files, photos, calendar and all the other applications on it. I am not locked in, i feel like i have even more freedom because some services work better than on Android or Windows.
Syncing works flawlessly, something that was always janky on Android.
Sorry for the long post.
I guess what i am trying to ask is, why so much hate? Why can’t a person decide for themselves? Why is macOS/iOS looked down upon regarding connectivity with other devices and services when that’s clearly not the case?
Why do people that have no first hand experience so vocal and opposed to the brand? Shouldn’t you at least try and then be the judge?
I think you should talk to your friends about this, not us.
They know why they (appear to) judge you better than any of us can infer from reading your side of the story.
But to answer your question as written: Yes, I am very familiar with their hardware and products. The hardware is good. The products are coherent. The company is dishonest, monopolistic and anti-consumer. I value my consumer freedom higher.
They are all monopolistic and anti-consumer though. Which mainstream brand is truly on the side of the consumer?
None are. We can’t have that world.
But whether due to incompetence, lack of monopoly or a trace of human soul, most mainstream brands don’t harm consumer rights as effectively as Apple do.
Are you high? Microsoft got sued for over a decade of price fixing: https://www.thatsuitemoney.ca/
Google betrayed the trust of its search engine users by bumping up its own products: https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2020/12/17/google-search-antitrust-lawsuit/
Yeah. The competition is so righteous.
Hate Apple all you want, you don’t even need a reason. But don’t sit there and tell me with a straight face other companies are somehow “better.”
You seem to have inserted a lot of opinions between what I wrote and what you choose to reply to.
If that’s your idea of fun, go for it, but I refuse to role-play into it.
[…] most mainstream brands don’t harm consumer rights as effectively as Apple do.
The commenter’s point was well qualified. They are lesser evils. Listing bad things they have done doesn’t really quantify it.
Microsoft and Google are no different these days. In fact, they’ve always been this way.
Simply buy and use the tools that work best for yourself based on your experiences, as per OP.
^ Exactly this. I was an Apple fanboy (perhaps even shill) until the iPhone 5S when my device had a bad NAND chip causing it to randomly and sporadically blue screen and reboot (as a PC user, the blue screen irony was not lost on me) and Apple jerked me around for 3 months until the phone was out of warranty and then told me I should have bought Apple Care on the phone even though the issue started before the 1 year warranty had expired.
I didn’t find this acceptable as I had written proof I’d taken the phone in to the shop multiple times during the warranty period, ended up calling their corporate office of the president where they worked with me to generate logs from the device and send them to Apple techs who would review it, at which point they came back and said “yeah it looks like the NAND chip is bad” and “but it’s out of warranty”. When I told the person from Apple this was ridiculous because I’d been an Apple customer for decades and I’d had umpteen Macs and Macbook laptops and iPhones and I’d never had this problem with any other Apple device (the whole point being the devices are 30% more expensive because they’re high quality and don’t have these types of problems), she cut me off and said “Apple doesn’t have a customer loyalty program, sir.” and dead-ended the entire conversation right there.
I took the 5S out to my driveway and smashed it with a hammer and went and bought a $200 HTC One E8 and I’ve been an Android user ever since and will never give Apple a penny if I can avoid it. The products were fine, the software was good, but the service/company is rotten.
- Are you AI/bot?
- Wall of text = incomprehensible, would not read/5.
- It’s rarely about how good the devices are, but how much they cost + Apple’s two-faced moral model that makes people oppose/reject it.
- No why?
- Ok, i didn’t take any writing classes
- What does that have to do with a device? To each their own, but i wouldn’t choose my daily drivers based on a company. We almost all drive gas cars, and big oil=bad, same with a lot of other stuff in our life but people are somehow really worried about their phone brand
It always surprises me how many people go for the self burn. Whining about a few paragraphs of texts is basically admitting their literacy level or attention span is pitiful.
That said, people who don’t like Apple still have legitimate reasons. Stuff like being forced to use proprietary connector, their “walled garden”. Basically if you’re happy within the limits of how you think they should do stuff it’s great, but not everyone is. None of that has really changed.
Use what you like though. People calling switching to Apple if that’s what you prefer a “betrayal” are being ridiculous.
People from both sides bought into the relative propaganda.
Your general experience is consistent with what most say about Apple, regardless of big company values. We all know they are about nothing more than profits.
Isn’t it a company’s whole point of existence in this economy to gain profit?
Are you AI/bot?
Yes. Shit, I mean no.
My ADHD only allowed me to read the first two sentences.
I don’t have ADHD but same.
I might, but self-respect was definitely the active limiting factor here, so same.
Can you elaborate what does self respect have to do with my post?
I see you’ve edited in paragraph breaks now, which is good.
What I mean is, I respect my own time too much to struggle to understand someone who couldn’t be bothered to make the post readable. If they’re not willing to put in the work to communicate effectively, I’m not picking up the slack.
You have now put in the work, and I appreciate that.
Same. No w that’s there’s paragraphs I’ll read.
Yeah, i get that, sorry.
I wanted to write a quick post about this but then got carried away.
Paragraphs.
Paragraphs?
Paragraphs!
Ok i will add them sorry :|
Seems like i can’t find the eddit button anywhere
Either in the three vertical dots submenu, or a pen icon
Couldn’t find it on Memmy, but Voyager has it so now i fixed it a bit.
I’m not reading that whole post, but in answer to the title. I use an android for my personal phone and an iPhone for my work phone. I’ve used both side by side for more than the last 10 years. Without a doubt the android phone is more functional and easier to use. I don’t give a shit about cameras, messaging apps, or brand loyalty. The android is more affordable and allows me to send texts, surf the internet, and watch YouTube without adds through vanced. I would never consider getting an iPhone as my personal use phone.
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Stop caring about what other people think about Apple.
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Start using paragraphs.
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Learn how to express your thoughts in a short and clear manner.
- I have no idea how to do that, it affects my proffesional life as well. Any advice on some guides?
When you’re writing a text, you’re putting down a stream of thoughts. Our thoughts can be very chaotic and hard to understand. So it’s a good practice to review your texts. Are sentences connected to each other? Does this thought lead to the next one? Does this paragraph add value? Should you move or delete something? It takes practice to become a good editor.
You can also learn from how other people structure their texts. I pay attention to that when I read a post on Lemmy or article in some magazine. It’s a pleasure to read a good text. I try to understand, what makes it good and what makes a bad text bad. That knowledge helps me write better texts.
This article has some good points: https://theamericanscholar.org/writing-english-as-a-second-language/ Despite the title, it can be helpful for native speakers too.
It takes a lot of practice, but is worth the time investment. Some tips:
- Go over everything you write and cut out things that are redundant or not central to your point. Repeat this many times per text.
- One “point” per paragraph.
- Three sentences or less per paragraph.
Focus on writing around paragraphs. Look over your text and see all the islands of text. Do they contain multiple different thoughts? Break up, move, or delete. Are they similar? Merge and reduce.
Try writing the same thing with less words. Try removing the less important stuff. You can also ask ChatGPT to summarize and split in paragraphs what you need. Practice makes perfect
I don’t really care what others think about companies, but when people i hang out with start judging me based on their views about some company, that gets weird
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If you like Apple and Mac, go ahead, use whatever you like. I think the hate comes from the hype attitude apple users typically have. They are a bit too hardcore about it and it gets annoying. I know, some bad apples spoil the lot (pun?) and I’m sure there’s Apple lovers who don’t go around preaching or trying to convert anyone. My sister loves her iPhone, yet I never heard her recommend me get one, or even brag about it.
Now you will have to understand different people value different things. For me, if you can’t sideload apps, if it’s too hard to jailbreak, if it’s too expensive, if I can’t run the niche software I need to run- I’m not going to bother. For these reasons I’m not an apple customer.
Finally, no, no haven’t used any Apple products lately. I think the last time I did was a Mac at uni some 5 years ago, and I’ve always found the interface counterintuitive. The mouse design is very uncomfortable. I don’t like their keyboards. Perhaps these things changed or maybe we have compatibility, but again, adding to the reasons in paragraph 2- I don’t see why I should bother.
I guess what i wanted to ask by creating the post is exactly what you are saying.
Why would you want to jailbreak a phone or sideload apps? Maybe you don’t have to? I was blown away by the amount of apps and features baked into the iOS and macOS, i had no idea that was the case.
And you can’t even know if you don’t try. Look at the amount of people saying, for example, you can’t have adblock on safari (you can), or that there are no automations on ios (there are).
I’m not trying to preach or to convert anyone, i’m just saying that i’ve been living under a rock and didn’t know about any features the ios/macos offer.
Also, apple products work just fine, sometimes better, with non-apple hardware and software.
Bluetooth devices especially.
What would I do without NewPipe? Can you run it on your iPhone? I’ve never experienced poor performance with my hardware, why should I pay triple the price? I didn’t need to jailbreak my current phone, but I did my previous one. I can’t even remember why I did, but I was happy I could. Some people like tinkering with stuff this way, the same goes for computers. Why would anyone pay more to get less enjoyment out of what they buy?
I understand you don’t need or care any of these features, and that’s fine. Most people love listening to Spotify on their iPhone, I’m cool with that. I don’t know what else needs to be understood here other than essential character differences. People are different.
Newpipe doesn’t have a version for iOS, the newpipe team decided it won’t support the os because it heavily relies on android api. Not to mention that you probably couldn’t easily install it even if it exists. Youtube without ads is available via safari though.
Nothing wrong with differences. I just wanted to point out that many of the things i thought i would be missing, i’m not, either because there is an alternative or because it’s in the os by default.
To answer your last question, an example, i paid more money to get less enjoyment from one of the computers i use in the “home lab”. I could’ve spun up yet another VM for some services, for free, but i decided to purchase a dedicated machine. It had to be small tho, so the only real option i had was the Intel NUC.
It costs triple of the DIY version, not to mention infinitely more than a “free” VM, but it was the right choice. CPU is soldered, you have to buy M.2 storage because no sata ports, and it takes SO-DIMM. I “could” buy a cheap AMD CPU and motherboard and reuse multiple sticks of RAM and SSDs laying around in the lab, but the power consumption and form factor were more important for the use case.
I use an iPad for work. It’s getting better now that they have widgets and allow a little customization. I hate the app store and the keyboard (even with gbosrd installed it’s still clunky), and almost everything about using it. That said, it starts quickly, has good battery life, and is durable. Good device, terrible os. Android feels like the opposite - less reliable (more restarts) but much more pleasant to use. I haven’t used an apple computer in a hundred years but i dint remember it being bad. My kids use macs for design stuff at home and work and love them. As someone else mentioned, i think it’s ios that is hated.
Also cool thing about the iPhone. Bottom right of the keyboard there’s a button labeled “return”. Push it twice to start a new paragraph.
Yes! That huge wall of text made my eyes hurt.
As someone who actively avoids Apple products I do not have any issue with their hardware or software and actually recommend apple to people like my mom who need things that just work and work well. The reasons though that I personally avoid Apple is I disagree with many of their anti consumer practices, their “walled garden” mentality, and their blatant refusal to make things more repairable. On that note you mention HP and I avoid them as well for the same reasons. HP, Dell, and other big name manufacturers of Windows laptops and PCs use the same tactics as apple. I personally built my own desktop and bought a second hand laptop that I replaced some parts in and put Linux on so it runs much better now but these are things I can’t recommend to people like my mother.
As for phones it is the same story as above but sadly virtually all options when it comes to manufacturers are anti consumer so the main thing that keeps me on Android is the ability to install apps from other places.
I think people take the anti apple train a bit too hard sometimes because they are easier to s**t on than having to name 20 different windows manufacturers or Android ones.
Side note many software engineers I know swear by MacBooks because their underlying kernal is more similar to unix and also the whole “it just works” part is huge when your company is buying you the machine and can’t really fuck up by buying any 1 of the maybe 6 choices they had through apple
I haven’t tried nor will I want to try Apple products for the following reasons:
Apple products seem to always have some critical design flaw under the surface, or even something I can only put down to deliberate malicious designed-to-fail, not-repairable shenanigans (soldered SSD, serializing even trivial parts like screen opening sensor, having high voltage backlight pin right next to low voltage signaling pin that connects directly to the soldered CPU etc).
The software is extremely locked down, I simply cannot function without Fdroid and installing packages straight from Github (how else am I going to extract the necessary encryption keys to use a gadget with an unofficial FLOSS application instead of the official spyware?). Android is not perfect, but at least I can hack it and mutilate it as I see fit and there are custom ROM-s. My next phone will probably run /e/ OS.
Plus Apple lacks the critical-to-me hardware like 3.5mm analog audio output. IR blaster is also nice to have when working with AV stuff that may not have the remote with them.
Last, but not least, they’re simply too expensive for me. I’m not willing to pay more than 300…400€ for a phone, and I don’t want to buy a mobile gadget used—demons only know what that thing has been through. And Apple desktop/laptop computers—yeah, well, just no. I like my standardized x64 architecture, where I can upgrade RAM and storage as I see fit for cheap and install whatever opsys I want, just fine thankyouverymuch.
I’ll consider an iPhone when they get rid of the giant notch and allow sideloading and more browser engines.
You can side load on iOS but the cert is only valid for 7 days then you need to refresh the certificate. You can use AltStore to do that automatically. Or get an subscription on one of those piracy sites that provide 1 year certs or pay for an developer account.
I had an iPhone 12 for two weeks before I returned it. I tried to like it because, while you’re still in a corp walled garden and they cannot really be trusted, they so far are better than Google at least with regards to privacy.
However, there’s a list of stuff that got me too annoyed. Some examples:
- the stock keyboard is just garbage. All the infamous typos on social media come from iPhones because they choose to correct words that have already been written. You also cannot sensibly replace the stock keyboard because you cannot block a specific app’s data usage and keyboards are far too critical apps to grant internet access.
- stock apps are good overall (better than Android) but that means people don’t make replacements. The mail app could’ve been great but they choose to not support PGP and it’s practically impossible to set up.
- you cannot replace Safari completely, some apps still open it. Safari is crap because no way to install adblock.
- you still feel that iOS wasn’t developed as a multi-threading system. I had a few apps that wouldn’t correctly work while in background
- apps are far more expensive than for Android. Lots of subscription-based plans, more comparable to full-price PC software than mobile apps.
- no native file system access. Apps are sandboxed and handle their files themselves. I prefer to do that myself but no chance on iOS.
- the community is garbage. Every question or critcisim is the user’s fault. The Holy Corp does not make mistakes. Collective Stockholm syndrome.
I also ran into various bugs. I do on every platform but the “it just works” narrative is especially strong for Apple and it’s just not like their fans claim.
I find the keyboard much better than gboard. I don’t use autocorrect tho.
Stock apps are one of the things that kept me. I didn’t have to search the play store for an app, it was already there. I use imap for mail, and the mail app is the best app i ever used on any mobile device. Paid apps included.
There is adblock for safari
Background sync works a lot better for me than on Android. I never have to worry about syncing photos or files, while on Android it would stop and i wouldn’t notice for weeks that my photos disn’t sync.
Apps are more expensive, but better as well. There are apps that are the same as on Android but pricier on iOS, i agree there.
I don’t use a filesystem on any computer, or should i say built-in storage. Everything is connected to my home server and that part works as intended.
For that part, the Apple website has an actual user documentation for iOS and MacOS and it’s good. Not the best, but far better than anything available for Android.
You have to actually give it a try. It isn’t like android. It requiers some adaptation. That said, i understand if someone found their OS of choice and doesn’t consider anything else, i just never was in that postition with Android.
I’m pro Mac OS. Anti iOS.
My main metric is can I run software on the device of my choosing. On iOS you cannot run your own software, there’s no f droid. That’s a deal breaker for me. So I don’t recommend it…
On Mac OS you can run whatever you want. And that’s fine.
It’s ultimately up to you, I don’t like seeing advertisements, I like to run my own software.
On Mac OS you can run whatever you want.
For now. I really think Apple has been letting the entire macos experience decay on purpose. Then, they’ll release a self-hosting xcode for iPad and old yeller the mac for good, as I am sure they have been dreaming of for years.
They were enraged on how i “betrayed” them by switching to iPhone.
Your friends need to chill the fuck out.
I’ve used Apple devices for work in the past (phone and laptop) although not for about 7 or 8 years and they were fine - bit of a learning curve as I have always been a Windows and Android person, but I got used to them, and those aspects of them that I found ideosyncratic (or just plain dumb!)
That said, it’d take a pretty big shift for me to want to go back to Apple by choice, but that’s partly because of cost and the sheer number of apps I’d have to buy to replace those I have.
But, if you want to go with Apple, it’s your call, and your friends should not be taking it so seriously.
I agree with the chilling, i think most people are on some death rampage to money and that makes them angry and irrational
