This gives big “RFK Jr. will steal votes from Kamala”
hate to “BURST” your bubble, but Trump is destroying america and destroying the Republican do nothing party! and Democrats are winning hands down!
Preemptively rolling out that “Democrats losing is the fault of everyone except the Democrats” narrative, again.
Must have seen the MN polling numbers…
If you want to vote third party but don’t like the greens, the party for socialism and liberation is running de la Cruz on a platform of Palestinian statehood!
Jill Stein has my vote! Seriously, she took it. Can someone help me get it back?
I don’t understand why it is taken for granted that if Stein wasn’t a candidate the people who voted for they would be voting for the Democrats. Just as likely they would not vote at all or vote for some other protest candidate.
I saw some stats on this in another thread, most third party voters wouldn’t be voting if their candidate wasn’t on the ballot, and most third party voters benefit Democrats down ballot. The spoiler candidate logic has always been sketchy.
The spoiler candidate logic has always been sketchy.
it depends on how popular third party is. If they’re getting 20-30% of the vote but no more it’s extremely common for them to drop out to support the primary instead.
Anything lower than 10% and it probably doesn’t matter much. RFK jr is a decent exmaple of this, although he was more “bipartisan” in terms of support, apparently.
The last US Presidential election decided with more than a 10% margin was Regan. The only vote with above a 5% margin this millennium was Obama’s first term.
“Anything lower than 10% and it probably doesn’t matter much” is a weird take.
this is assuming that the voter split isn’t roughly at random. Jill stein is running on either extremely far left anti war sentiment, which we see among the right as well, along with cozying up to russia apparently, which only tankies and farther right people want.
That alone is pretty mixed.
Generally unless the candidate is going to pull a large enough share of the votes to the point where it enact a significant draw from the candidate hence my 20-30% figure, it really won’t do anything to the voter turnout. Like i said, as we saw with RFK, it was roughly split down the middle.
Jill stein might pull more far lefties, but that’s only because they refuse to vote in their best interest lmao. They wouldn’t vote anyway.
Conservative voters are not anti-war, they are anti-Russian war, and the Republican ticket already addresses that. These people don’t historically vote for left wing parties, nor are they in this case.
The green party’s base is pot smokers and college students who haven’t gotten wise to the green grift yet.
Conservative voters are not anti-war, they are anti-Russian war, and the Republican ticket already addresses that. These people don’t historically vote for left wing parties, nor are they in this case.
it depends. Some of them are anti-war because they’re isolationist, and they don’t want to be a part of the ongoing global politics thingy. Some of them as you said, are anti russian war, which is absolutely true. A lot of these same republicans also support israel, although that might be construed differently since they are technically an ally of the US. But that is pretty the case there.
The green party’s base is pot smokers and college students who haven’t gotten wise to the green grift yet.
it’s either stupid people who don’t know anything about politics, or people who think the green party is a real political party lol.
As in that’s such a small group they are probably more dedicated to their candidate and won’t vote for anyone else.
Again. You can’t expect to remove candidates from a ballot and their support will all just vote Democrat. It’s a false logic to assume they belong to anywhere else other than their vote block.
When you have a large base that small percentage that’s willing to vote off base ends up being a larger percentage of the vote overall as well.Currently you would have to get every single last green party voter to give up and vote Blue which is an impossible ask. So even at 5% of the vote I’m not sure they could swing an election with enough if their candidate asked nicely.
They went high with their estimate though.
Because people who are disillusioned that the green party would address their concerns are generally not complete shitheads like republicans; they’re decent but misled people.
Because a vote abstention is a vote for the person in the lead. If Harris is in the lead, then every single American who abstains from voting is essentially helping her win, but the same is true if Trump is in the lead. Convincing Green voters that it makes more sense in a FPTP system to vote Democrat as its the closest party to their preferred ideology is a statistically productive activity.
Voting for genocide will never be something you can convince humans is in their best interest as close to their preferred ideology.
Note: Jill is literally paid to run as a spoiler, and if you look at her actual policies, lot of transphobia, ablism, and support for pseudoscience
This shouldn’t surprise anyone considering her source.
Kamala Harris can win over all of those Jill Stein voters with a single sentence.
Stupid Jill Stein’s entire campaign is based on the premise that Democrats would keep a genocide going for an entire year into election season.
Let’s completely forget everything but the election for this hypothetical. Do you think Harris coming out and saying “I will immediately stop supporting Israel” she will automatically win? Or do you think it’s more likely the Jewish community would condemn her words and move over to the rubber stamp in chief who would give Israel even more support with fewer conditions? (Ignoring the personal favors he asks for of course.)
Yall act like this is a simple black and white issue, when it’s obviously not. Even when you boil it down to “just” the election.
Yes an arms embargo net her an easy win.
The Jewish community does not care about sending infinite weapons to Netanyahu.
Dumbest shit I’ve ever read
Genocide is not a core tenant in the Jewish faith. To say all Jews are Zionists is incredibly antisemitic or you.
Ah yes, in a world where simply protesting the murder of tens of thousands of Palestinians is branded “antisemitism,” directly preventing military aid to Israel will somehow be perfectly fine.
Please, tell me more about this magical fairytale land you live in, it certainly seems a hell of a lot more likable than reality.
Netanyahu is campaigning for Trump. Coming out against a foreign pm because that pm is helping your election competitor shouldn’t be that difficult to pull off.
Oooh, so Kamala is playing 5D chess and will do an about-face on Biden’s genocide policy when she enters office? Because her past record is so stellar on this issue? Like that time she had wine from an illegal settlement served at the White House? She and her boss wipe their ass with the rule of all and all pretensions of even basic human morality on an international level, but she’s not Trump!
Strawman much? Or are you arguing with voices I can’t hear?
Edit: Y’know what? I’m curious. How do you envision her coming out against Israel going? Let’s hear your version of how things would go, because I can’t hear these arguments as anything other than “I support Trump.”
So please, enlighten me as to how this would go down without Trump being elected and making the situation worse.
I can’t hear these arguments as anything other than “I support Trump.”
Strawman much?
🤦♂️ That isn’t a strawman.
No, of course not, it’s just saying their argument is something that it isn’t. I swear there is a term for that.
To be fair, I get it. Because I can’t hear your arguments as anything other than “I support genocide”.
Yeah remember when they were all clamoring for Biden to drop out? And he did? They just fucking moved the goalposts.
They do not give a fuck about Gaza. It’s just a tool to hurt Democrats.
If you took half that energy and redirected it towards getting your candidate to stop funding genocide, you might convince actual humans to vote for your genocidal cop.
Republicans hate this one simple trick!
They really do, oddly enough, for multiple reasons.
Aint nobody voting for Jill Stein lmao
Sorry buddy, I’ve lived through enough presidential elections to know that you’re absolutely wrong.
“Both siders” do
A lot of them don’t even live in America, and a portion of those that do, aren’t old enough to vote. Those that remain are probably such a small percentage of the total so as to not really be relevant.
And we know for certain that there are quite a few “both-sides’ers” here on lemmy that have no legal vote because they’re foreign. As far as the age, that’s just a theory of mine.
jesus christ this thread is a fucking nightmare bro
i feel like i’ve done three pounds of ketamine just scrolling through these comments.
guys it’s not that hard, all we have to do is to not vote for still jein.
… there were people voting for stein?
i would hope not, but idk why else you would be running lmao
It was nice to see the World News community finally realize that the DNC has been doing nothing but shooting themselves in the foot for a year.
Maybe this community will finally catch on and connect the dots between a random ass 3rd party getting blamed for stealing votes away from the Democrats, and Democrats not actually meeting the core demands of their constituency.
Or maybe not…
Maybe someday we’ll have people blame the DNC for choosing to back unpopular opinions/policies losing the popularity contest against “Literal Evil Fascist with the Playbook of How To Do Evil 101, but Fox News said it’s cool”.
But instead we need a new scapegoat for when Greens come in 4th place to the Libertarian’s “I just wanna date this 14 year old with my rifle and say the N-word out loud without backlash.”
Maybe someday we’ll have people blame the DNC for choosing to back unpopular opinions/policies losing the popularity contest against
the DNC is choosing unpopular policy? Brother this is a representative democracy. If harris wins, it’s because it was the popular policy/stances. There is literally no alternative here unless you thing there is a deep state rigging the elections or that the majority of the american populous isn’t real or something lmao.
the DNC is choosing unpopular policy? Brother this is a representative democracy. If harris wins, it’s because it was the popular policy/stances.
Uhh… No. Fracking isn’t even popular as a majority position in PA where she’s pushing it. But she’s gonna anyways cause for some reason the minority is the “better” place to scrape votes from?
And in a 2 party system if one side is “literally evil” the other basically knows they have a blank check to run on as long as it’s not the same policy as the evil side or else why would voters swap sides when evil wasn’t a disqualifier?
We have polls that literally tell us what the popular positions are. Harris is not listening to those so whatever the reason is its not popularity.
Uhh… No. Fracking isn’t even popular as a majority position in PA where she’s pushing it. But she’s gonna anyways cause for some reason the minority is the “better” place to scrape votes from?
oh im sorry i didn’t realize kamala was running for the federal presidential role of PA specifically.
And in a 2 party system if one side is “literally evil” the other basically knows they have a blank check to run on as long as it’s not the same policy as the evil side or else why would voters swap sides when evil wasn’t a disqualifier?
this is sort of true, but a substantial chunk of US voters believe that kamala harris is the “evil” not donald trump. so this isn’t exactly a bull in a china shop situation here. This is more like a bull vaguely around a china shop.
We have polls that literally tell us what the popular positions are. Harris is not listening to those so whatever the reason is its not popularity.
i mean that’s a fair statement, but she wouldn’t be running on fracking if she thought it was detrimental, so it’s either not a huge concern for most voters, or there is something more than being let on in the rhetoric here.
At the very least we know kamala will more than likely support a real EPA, so maybe the idea is to push environmental concerns from fracking into the territory of the EPA and local areas, rather than doing a federal ban on fracking. Which i would be fully in support of. The EPA should absolutely have more power.
i mean that’s a fair statement, but she wouldn’t be running on fracking if she thought it was detrimental, so it’s either not a huge concern for most voters, or there is something more than being let on in the rhetoric here.
You’re begging the question here. If Democrats paid attention to their voters we wouldn’t be having this conversation. Generally, critics of Dem strategy believe that they are too beholden to wealthy donors.
Democrats blame Jill Stein for Clinton’s loss. But Dems can’t force her not to run again, or people not to vote for her. If Kamala doesn’t win, it will be because she didn’t convince enough people to vote for her, not because Jill Stein is running.
If Kamala doesn’t win, it will be because she didn’t convince enough people to vote for her, not because Jill Stein is running.
dems absolutely can’t handle this
You’re begging the question here. If Democrats paid attention to their voters we wouldn’t be having this conversation. Generally, critics of Dem strategy believe that they are too beholden to wealthy donors.
are you proposing that a candidate should work to appeal to 100% of their voter base, rather than the most broad constituent beliefs of it? The wealthy donor thing is a problem, over party lines, that’s an interesting one to solve so i’m not really surprised there.
But to be fair, if we did stop fracking, it might be detrimental to the oil market right now, considering the position that the global oil industry is in, is, less than ideal. So there is also a reason to push for fracking given the current global market at the moment.
Democrats blame Jill Stein for Clinton’s loss. But Dems can’t force her not to run again, or people not to vote for her. If Kamala doesn’t win, it will be because she didn’t convince enough people to vote for her, not because Jill Stein is running.
i consider this a voter skill issue, rather than a candidate issue, just vote for the better person lmao. Voting for stein is like voting for a brick wall, except one that wastes money.
a candidate should work to appeal to 100% of their voter base
Less a proposal and more of a fact: People won’t vote for a candidate who does not support the issues that they support. You can’t expect a voter who is against fracking to vote for a candidate who supports fracking.
If Kamala supports fracking and the majority of voters do not, it is up to her to change, not the voters.
i consider this a voter skill issue
Yeah… Democrats want to blame the voters so they can continue to court wealthy donors. If everyone in Michigan promises to “Vote Blue No Matter Who” then they can continue arming Israel without losing any Muslim votes. Unfortunately that’s not how things work.
Its the genocide thats the problem-- Steins numbres are small… And Jill Stein owes the dems nothing, she can run if she wants. Thats what democracy is about. So the new republic can suck it.
Okay, the dems no longer support Israel, now they will get smeared as hateful Antisemites.
Thats fine. Theres only 2% of the electorate who are jewish, and a good portion of that 2% also dont support the zionist faction. We give some of them and the youth voters a voice to fight on our behalf. We need to keep the youth vote on side or the party is long term doomed anyway. Any leader who says they are swayed by the voice of youth has a long career ahead of them.
We also say that, “we arent steering the US away from support of Israel, we’re steering it away from the far right government sponsored violence of Netenyahu.” And we claim we’re happy to be friends again when moderates or lefties are in charge in Israel. The zionists cant pretend to have clean hands, and Netenyahu needs to go.
Media coverage can make or break a campaign. They absolutely destroyed Jeremy Corbyn for being pro-Palestine.
Everything you said is true. But it has nothing to do with the article. It’s about how her campaign seems to be more a grift than pushing green policies, and aimed at taking votes from Harris in swing states than actually trying to win any election.
She can obviously do what she wants, but it doesn’t appear she is being genuine.
That’s a weird way to say “Harris ticket fails to motivate voters to their side”
To clarify, Stein is a literal compromised grifter.
So is most of the RNC. I remember that 4th of July emergency flight to Moscow to hand deliver a letter to Putin.
It’s not hard to beat these people. Unless you’re liberal I guess.
People doing completely conspiracy level of math with thinking you can just add those votes to Harris and she would win as a cope.
Hillary handed trump the WH last time
Everything she touches she screws up with hubris - Colin Powell
Okay, maybe it’s not so black and white… But she definitely contributed.
Blue Maga setting up a punching bag as an excuse.
Green’s not even polling in measurable numbers yet here we are. Blue Maga doesn’t want to be held accountable for their pro-genocide candidate.
Stein doesn’t even get 1% in any state and yet the media props her up, but chooses to ignore Libertarian shit-for-brains, despite more money and states they have on the ballot.
Pied Piper, ignoring the rust belt, a shit candidate with shitty politics. She overwhelmingly contributed.
Finally, something on which we can agree.
