PARIS—“Do I really have to answer that question? I’m certainly not voting for the person leading the Republican Party.” That was the response of communist icon Angela Davis when a journalist asked about her intentions for the 2024 U.S.
That’s more of a general human trait than an American one. Yes, Americans are very fond of their exceptionalism, but valuing the lives of your own tribe and kin more than those of others is something most mammals share. I dont want war anywhere in the world. I hope you have a nice day.
That’s exactly the problem, no one can force Netanyahu to do anything. He’s complety off his rocker. He’s doing everything to stay in power, because the moment he’s not, the courts will go after him. That’s why he’s trying to appease both those pushing for peace (Yes, I actually mean Biden here) and the warmongers (Israeli right wingers). Notice how he hasn’t gotten all the hostages back? That’s on purpose. The longer the war goes on, the better for him.
Now, who do you rather want in the White House next year? A feeble old man who will go along with everything Bibi says? Or an experienced prosecutor who can put her foot down?
I’m sorry for your friends. They need to leave, now. If war came to my doorstep, that’s what I would do.
That’s exactly the problem, no one can force Netanyahu to do anything.
US government is supporting israel fascist government, they could have prevent the genocide by simply not arming israel to death and gifting them billions. They can still persuade israel government to stop by simply stopp aiding them but they are doing the opposite.
Dude, I understand that America is fucking awful right now but don’t bullshit about shit you don’t understand… Some people are just paying lip service or stalling but Bernie is really fucking trying.
Nobody asks you to fix America, they asked you what choice you would make.
Here are the options:
-You can vote for a candidate that represents 10,000 people dying
-You can vote for a candidate that represents 5,000 people dying
-You can abstain and guarantee that the candidate that represents 10,000 people dying wins.
These are your options. There are no other options. So maybe you value your own personal moral integrity more than the lives of 5,000 people, but any reasonable person will see that the second option is the only viable choice if you actually want to be decent.
Cool man, you successfully recognized that class divide exists in the US just as much as anywhere else and that the ruling class are a minority whose decisions don’t represent the working class. Kudos to you for your next-level observation skills!
Here’s the thing though: even if we do spark up the fires of revolution tomorrow, you know what? It’s probably gonna take more than a month. In the meantime, there is still going to be an American president and there is still going to be an election the fate of which will still have real world impact immediately, including in regards to the Palestinian genocide. Which means even if we’re marching up on the White House in victory 8 months (imagining an impossibly best-case fictional scenario here) for now we still have the weight of the choice for President and the inordinate amount of very real lives that decision impacts, both domestically and abroad. So again, any decent person will make the moral choice for harm reduction; whether they acknowledge more needs to be on the personal level to solve the greater issues or not.
Stop letting your childish hateboner for America steal all the blood flow from your brain.
Again, you’ve successfully recognized that America puts its own interests before the interests of foreign nations, same as everywhere else.
For all the shit the world likes to give America for acting like the world police or arbiters of society, rightly so btw, ya’ll keep expecting America to act different too. If you think America is deceptive or evil or whatever in our attempts to be the world police, then just stop believing the lie. Don’t expect America to be any more altruistic than any other nation and I think it all makes sense. Imo there is no “third world”; people are mostly the same everywhere. Every nation is selfish and every nation is dealing with some level of corruption - so why in the world would you begrudge the people of America for trying their hardest to at least do what they can to reduce the harmful impact of that corruption?
Lol. What a lot of effort it must be to project your preconceptions on some rando on the internet. How do you know I don’t give a shit? That seeing these things doesn’t hurt me to my core? What do you want me to do, go out and start murdering politicians? Sit down and think for a few minutes before writing your next comment.
The reality is that there are thousand of choices but propaganda makes you believe there’s only two. The world and society weren’t build by the red and blue party.
Aspirationally, of course there are more than two choices. Realistically, only two of those have a chance at success. The US electoral system has ensured this. The way to fix the system is to elect those who want to change it for the better, not those who wish to destroy it and all it stands for.
Realistically until elections are over everyone has the same change of winning because ballot polls are hypothetical. Voting is not the only way you have to change things for good. The same way there’s people advocating for corrupted parties you can waste your energies on something more useful.
And as you smile smugly to yourself about your moral superiority for choosing philosophy over the unfortunate situation that is reality, women die due to lack of reasonable healthcare, minorities and those deemed “deviant” by fundamentalists are oppressed, and the genocide in Palestine is ramped up and overtly supported by American interests because the right doesn’t do this kind of philosophical masturbation and thus handily wins the election.
Look, I want to see the end of the binary too, but only an ignorant person thinks you can win a race by being dropped off at the finish line and walking 2 steps. The end of the binary will not come from a surprise upset Presidential election out of nowhere. It just won’t. Not today, not ever. If you actually give a shit about making a change and not just feeling above it all personally, you’d be out on the streets in non election years working to legitimize third party candidates in viable lower and local races where they can win and affect change outside the party system. And if you’re somewhere where that has already happened, you’d be working with them to extend their reach, pushing their influence further. Or you’d be running locally as a third-party candidate yourself.
And if you are already doing that, first off thank you so much, but secondly, then you must understand what a difficult uphill battle the fight is and more importantly you must understand you can’t just skip ahead to the finish line.
You mention that voting is not the only way to change things for good and you are absolutely right. Hell, I’d say it’s not even one of the primary ways. But what voting is is one of the highest return on investment ways of effecting change; the amount of effect it takes to vote is beyond nominal, practically insignificant, yet the consequences have significant real world impact. Not smartly utilizing your vote is like being hungry in a cabin in the woods and taking a knife out hunt a wild boar for food when there is a literal ham sandwich in a ziploc bag in the fridge waiting for you.
But what voting is is one of the highest return on investment ways of effecting change
I’m constantly working on local stuff, my vote has never made any kind of a difference - I live in an urban area jerrymandered to include as much of the suburbs as possible, they vote in lockstep to keep their taxes low and poors out. They are bipartisan about that. The local democratic committees are all just full of the family of people running for office and nobody with good politics has the time or energy to participate in the democratic party
I’m in a blue state, I’ve voted every year for decades, it’s always felt like a waste of time. Any time I ask elected representatives about something they didn’t already want to do they (or their staff) tell me to fuck off.
Seems a great time to see the section of my comment about legitimizing or running as a third party in your community to effect change on the local level, then.
The point of my comment was not to be satisfied, it is that change doesn’t start at the finish line. If you are fed up and think your vote is worthless, then do something about it rather than impotently protesting which accomplishes nothing but throwing away that tiny bit of power you did wield.
Here’s the deal guys: nobody is coming to save you. Not Harris or Trump, but also not Stein, or Bernie, or anyone else. There is never going to be a time when you can just vote and suddenly things are all sunshine and rainbows. Change takes work, and we’re discussing enormous change on a massive scale.
Or, let me offer you a counterpoint - maybe the democrats in your area aren’t a lost cause. Maybe they can be better utilized, motivated, incentivized, etc. Going back to the change takes work/nobody is coming to save you bit, what have you personally done to change the situation in area beyond voting or donation?
Municipal level stuff is nonpartisan where I am. Literally the only reason I bother to vote in federal years is ballot referendum. State rep seats are a lock for Democrats and trying to primary them usually means the incumbent wins in a slam dunk.
I actually do a lot in my spare time, but certainly not electoral work, I don’t have the money, time or network to personally run for anything. I have been involved in several unions organizing, which is about the only time voting has felt consequential.
Also I kind of resent the question, this isn’t an individuals problem to solve, and blindly participating in a broken system isn’t going to fix it.
Sure, every voter in the country could suddenly and radically change their minds about who to vote for, but we both know that isn’t going to happen, because it’s never happened. The only time that a third party has ever upset an established party is when the Republicans threw out the Whigs before the American Civil War. They did that through years of lead-up and messaging, along with a growing emancipation movement. You’re not changing anyone’s minds that radically this close to an election.
Believe it or not, I don’t spend most of my day voting or responding to internet comments.
The reality is there are only two choices. Which will you choose?
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That’s more of a general human trait than an American one. Yes, Americans are very fond of their exceptionalism, but valuing the lives of your own tribe and kin more than those of others is something most mammals share. I dont want war anywhere in the world. I hope you have a nice day.
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That’s exactly the problem, no one can force Netanyahu to do anything. He’s complety off his rocker. He’s doing everything to stay in power, because the moment he’s not, the courts will go after him. That’s why he’s trying to appease both those pushing for peace (Yes, I actually mean Biden here) and the warmongers (Israeli right wingers). Notice how he hasn’t gotten all the hostages back? That’s on purpose. The longer the war goes on, the better for him. Now, who do you rather want in the White House next year? A feeble old man who will go along with everything Bibi says? Or an experienced prosecutor who can put her foot down?
I’m sorry for your friends. They need to leave, now. If war came to my doorstep, that’s what I would do.
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I’d love to. Alas, all political power vested in me is in the form of a ballot. And I’ve already voted not to make the situation worse.
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In my name? The only atrocities commited in my name are the ones I committed myself. And I certainly wouldn’t call those atrocities.
Sure, I can go out and protest, which I do.
US government is supporting israel fascist government, they could have prevent the genocide by simply not arming israel to death and gifting them billions. They can still persuade israel government to stop by simply stopp aiding them but they are doing the opposite.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_support_for_Israel_in_the_Israel–Hamas_war
I’ve done so, Peter Welch is solidly against genocide and Bernie Sanders is trying congressional wizardry to try and cut off arms shipments.
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Dude, I understand that America is fucking awful right now but don’t bullshit about shit you don’t understand… Some people are just paying lip service or stalling but Bernie is really fucking trying.
https://www.sanders.senate.gov/press-releases/news-sanders-and-colleagues-move-to-block-arms-sales-to-israel/
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So no actual answer then?
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Nobody asks you to fix America, they asked you what choice you would make.
Here are the options:
-You can vote for a candidate that represents 10,000 people dying
-You can vote for a candidate that represents 5,000 people dying
-You can abstain and guarantee that the candidate that represents 10,000 people dying wins.
These are your options. There are no other options. So maybe you value your own personal moral integrity more than the lives of 5,000 people, but any reasonable person will see that the second option is the only viable choice if you actually want to be decent.
edit: formating
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Cool man, you successfully recognized that class divide exists in the US just as much as anywhere else and that the ruling class are a minority whose decisions don’t represent the working class. Kudos to you for your next-level observation skills!
Here’s the thing though: even if we do spark up the fires of revolution tomorrow, you know what? It’s probably gonna take more than a month. In the meantime, there is still going to be an American president and there is still going to be an election the fate of which will still have real world impact immediately, including in regards to the Palestinian genocide. Which means even if we’re marching up on the White House in victory 8 months (imagining an impossibly best-case fictional scenario here) for now we still have the weight of the choice for President and the inordinate amount of very real lives that decision impacts, both domestically and abroad. So again, any decent person will make the moral choice for harm reduction; whether they acknowledge more needs to be on the personal level to solve the greater issues or not.
Stop letting your childish hateboner for America steal all the blood flow from your brain.
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Again, you’ve successfully recognized that America puts its own interests before the interests of foreign nations, same as everywhere else.
For all the shit the world likes to give America for acting like the world police or arbiters of society, rightly so btw, ya’ll keep expecting America to act different too. If you think America is deceptive or evil or whatever in our attempts to be the world police, then just stop believing the lie. Don’t expect America to be any more altruistic than any other nation and I think it all makes sense. Imo there is no “third world”; people are mostly the same everywhere. Every nation is selfish and every nation is dealing with some level of corruption - so why in the world would you begrudge the people of America for trying their hardest to at least do what they can to reduce the harmful impact of that corruption?
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Not your responsibility? Oh, okay. Then feel free to refrain from contributing to the conversation.
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You sound upset, is everything okay?
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Lol. What a lot of effort it must be to project your preconceptions on some rando on the internet. How do you know I don’t give a shit? That seeing these things doesn’t hurt me to my core? What do you want me to do, go out and start murdering politicians? Sit down and think for a few minutes before writing your next comment.
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You okay?
People here are not in charge of the Israeli government you know.
Or you meant the Russo Ukrainian war? Well then I sure hope Kamala wins too.
What about the Uyghurs? Shal we vote thirdparty so donald can give a full go to China there too?
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Are you implying the USA has a functional democracy whose actions follow the will of the people?
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The reality is that there are thousand of choices but propaganda makes you believe there’s only two. The world and society weren’t build by the red and blue party.
Aspirationally, of course there are more than two choices. Realistically, only two of those have a chance at success. The US electoral system has ensured this. The way to fix the system is to elect those who want to change it for the better, not those who wish to destroy it and all it stands for.
Realistically until elections are over everyone has the same change of winning because ballot polls are hypothetical. Voting is not the only way you have to change things for good. The same way there’s people advocating for corrupted parties you can waste your energies on something more useful.
And as you smile smugly to yourself about your moral superiority for choosing philosophy over the unfortunate situation that is reality, women die due to lack of reasonable healthcare, minorities and those deemed “deviant” by fundamentalists are oppressed, and the genocide in Palestine is ramped up and overtly supported by American interests because the right doesn’t do this kind of philosophical masturbation and thus handily wins the election.
Look, I want to see the end of the binary too, but only an ignorant person thinks you can win a race by being dropped off at the finish line and walking 2 steps. The end of the binary will not come from a surprise upset Presidential election out of nowhere. It just won’t. Not today, not ever. If you actually give a shit about making a change and not just feeling above it all personally, you’d be out on the streets in non election years working to legitimize third party candidates in viable lower and local races where they can win and affect change outside the party system. And if you’re somewhere where that has already happened, you’d be working with them to extend their reach, pushing their influence further. Or you’d be running locally as a third-party candidate yourself.
And if you are already doing that, first off thank you so much, but secondly, then you must understand what a difficult uphill battle the fight is and more importantly you must understand you can’t just skip ahead to the finish line.
You mention that voting is not the only way to change things for good and you are absolutely right. Hell, I’d say it’s not even one of the primary ways. But what voting is is one of the highest return on investment ways of effecting change; the amount of effect it takes to vote is beyond nominal, practically insignificant, yet the consequences have significant real world impact. Not smartly utilizing your vote is like being hungry in a cabin in the woods and taking a knife out hunt a wild boar for food when there is a literal ham sandwich in a ziploc bag in the fridge waiting for you.
I’m constantly working on local stuff, my vote has never made any kind of a difference - I live in an urban area jerrymandered to include as much of the suburbs as possible, they vote in lockstep to keep their taxes low and poors out. They are bipartisan about that. The local democratic committees are all just full of the family of people running for office and nobody with good politics has the time or energy to participate in the democratic party
I’m in a blue state, I’ve voted every year for decades, it’s always felt like a waste of time. Any time I ask elected representatives about something they didn’t already want to do they (or their staff) tell me to fuck off.
Seems a great time to see the section of my comment about legitimizing or running as a third party in your community to effect change on the local level, then.
The point of my comment was not to be satisfied, it is that change doesn’t start at the finish line. If you are fed up and think your vote is worthless, then do something about it rather than impotently protesting which accomplishes nothing but throwing away that tiny bit of power you did wield.
Here’s the deal guys: nobody is coming to save you. Not Harris or Trump, but also not Stein, or Bernie, or anyone else. There is never going to be a time when you can just vote and suddenly things are all sunshine and rainbows. Change takes work, and we’re discussing enormous change on a massive scale.
Or, let me offer you a counterpoint - maybe the democrats in your area aren’t a lost cause. Maybe they can be better utilized, motivated, incentivized, etc. Going back to the change takes work/nobody is coming to save you bit, what have you personally done to change the situation in area beyond voting or donation?
Municipal level stuff is nonpartisan where I am. Literally the only reason I bother to vote in federal years is ballot referendum. State rep seats are a lock for Democrats and trying to primary them usually means the incumbent wins in a slam dunk.
I actually do a lot in my spare time, but certainly not electoral work, I don’t have the money, time or network to personally run for anything. I have been involved in several unions organizing, which is about the only time voting has felt consequential.
Also I kind of resent the question, this isn’t an individuals problem to solve, and blindly participating in a broken system isn’t going to fix it.
Sure, every voter in the country could suddenly and radically change their minds about who to vote for, but we both know that isn’t going to happen, because it’s never happened. The only time that a third party has ever upset an established party is when the Republicans threw out the Whigs before the American Civil War. They did that through years of lead-up and messaging, along with a growing emancipation movement. You’re not changing anyone’s minds that radically this close to an election.
Believe it or not, I don’t spend most of my day voting or responding to internet comments.