You must log in or register to comment.
In a word…
FUUUUUUUUUCCCCCCKKKKKKKKKKKKK!!!
The turnout in the states says a lot. no one is happy. Even trump lost total votes; the Dems failed the mobilize their vote… which screams of people not thinking anything will change no matter what vote they place. It is a mirror for what is going on up here… In all likelihood the libs are out and its the cost of living and scarce jobs to blame for it. If they actually wanted to win the next election, they have already shown they could change things with a stroke of a pen and DON’T.
I’m a dual citizen from the UK/Canada.
I feel the same way after Brexit. I felt a huge sense of dread and my coworker said to me, “we work in a high paying position and we’re men, we’re mostly going to be okay. The people that voted for Brexit have just f*cked themselves and there’s nothing we can do about it.”
I do feel a lot of animosity to any Trump supporter and I feel that’s warranted. I don’t care to elaborate further. I’m thinking of dropping social media for the next six months because there’s a lot of shit going on that I have no control over and I can’t change.
I feel like we’re going to see an increase in this hate-filled, scapegoating rhetoric that the Republican party won votes with. All we can do now though is try to fight this kind of stuff here in Canada and try to avoid becoming the atates
OH SHIT OH FUCK
The outcome is not good for Canada and is deeply bad for several issues I care deeply about.
I do hope this drives introspection here about how our working class feels and has been struggling, and that it drives political change before we see a sweeping conservative majority in the next election.
A lot has been said about how shocking and awful the results are, and I do agree with them. I definitely do not condone any of the far-right parties, their representatives, or their policies.
But what hasn’t been said (and might be a bit controversial) is the fact that liberal parties are the biggest problem that the world is facing right now. It’s the parties that pretend to be an opposition force, but in reality they just keep shitting on voters, making broken promises, and saying “it’ll be better next time, just one more term!” They keep trying to convince people that the system works and that iterative changes will make things better. But in reality, things have actually been getting worse for 10, 15, maybe even 20 years… (the exact number depends on where you live and what you do for a living).
After a while, people stop believing in those broken promises. And the longer they refuse to put up any real opposition, the more and more they empower the far right.
In Canada, Trudeau needs to implement proportional representation NOW. If he doesn’t want to do that, he might as well just come out and endorse Poilievre, because he damn well knows what will happen if he doesn’t give people a real alternative (even he can’t pretend it’s any other way at this point). And no, ranked choice voting is not the answer here.
In the US, I have to be honest: it’s not a country anymore. It’s several countries, all jammed into one, and half of whom hate each other with no limit. And to be honest, this is how it’s supposed to work!!! This is how the constitution is framed! Federal government is supposed to be weak and state governments are supposed to fill that void, but the States refuse to actually work that way and keep looking to control a Federal government in a way that they’ll never be able to.
The USA really ought to break into constituent countries. The West Coast is a country. The Northeast is at least one country, maybe 3-4. And you can slice up the red states however you like - I honestly don’t care. Maybe this way, they can finally actually get shit done in a way that starts making people happy, because there’s far too much animosity between different and disparate parts of the “country” in its current form. It’s definitely not going to come from the Federal government.
I know that none of these things are going to happen, so things will just continue getting worse and worse over the next decade or two. Fair warning to everyone: we’re not even close to rock bottom yet.
Bracing for impact on Canadian elections.
Upon hearing the news, I felt despondent and a pit in my stomach… I went to do a bit of karaoke and my mood has recovered from that at least.
Clearly political con-artistry is effective. Ford, Smith, Moe, Poilievre and any wannabe dictators of Canada who may emerge in the future, are all taking down notes.
Tired. Numb.
Ukraine is fucked. Palenstine is fucked. Taiwan is fucked.
Climate is turbo fucked.
And the brain rot heads north
You know, I work a pretty stressful job, and I think a lot of that stress and anger came from, in some twisted way, a misguided faith of sorts. I did believe that people were, at the very least, capable of making the most sensible decision when given overwhelming evidence of good vs. bad choices; that they intentionally make bad choices either because they weren’t given enough information or were acting intentionally selfish or duplicitous in some way. So whenever I had to deal with someone trying to exploit a loophole or arguing about how they swear they are going to x and such place and will pay at a later time (when you know they won’t do so), it would frustrate me, because I did believe that they were capable of making better choices.
This election is proof that people are just genuinely dumb and hopeless, to a far and large extent. Choosing to omit your own vote, or willingly voting for him, is beyond imagination. We have seen so much of what he has done in the past 8 years now, at minimum. They know what he will likely do in the next 4 years. And they still chose him. Or chose not to participate.
So I’m choosing not to feel angry at people anymore, to not give a shit if they break the rules for whatever reason they justify. Because why be angry at something if you have lost faith in it being better?
I was quite put off myself, and was feeling sad for
youthem guys. To all that voted Harris, I’m sorry. To all who didn’t vote, voted 3rd party, or for the orange himself, I am now looking forward to the popcorn party.spoiler
Yes, my name checks out
This election is proof that people are just genuinely dumb and hopeless
Or that trump really does represent their ideals, and they’re just horrible people.
Anxious. I’m already dreading the next 4 years. I usually like to keep informed and up to date on world news but I think I’m going to have to avoid all news for the next few years and just try to ignore what America is doing.
Concerning, to say the least.
Consider this.
Trump is…a life-long conartist, a convicted felon, adulterer, rapist, womanizer, misogynist, racist, a twice impeached President, a guy who somehow had nearly a dozen close associates found to be guilty of crimes … Breathes
Someone who “gets along” with some of the most brutal dictators alive like they’re buddies, has been caught on tape describing sexually assaulting women, who has lied over 30,000 times in a span of 4 years, who has made threats against journalists, who has publicly mocked a disabled person, who has publicly shat on veterans, who criticised a POW for getting caught… Breathes
A guy who denied COVID, who promoted unproven treatments while condemning those who wanted to safeguard public health, who rambles incoherently about topics he has little to no grasp on, who thinks everything he does is “perfect” and "nobody has done a “better job”, is in obvious mental decline, has never admitted to being wrong or apologized for anything…
And so on!
Now, would you invite someone like that to dinner? Or have him work in your small business?
Probably not. Nobody would, not even if they were related to such a person.
Why then, would over half the voting public stake the future of their country on giving him a second term as President?
You don’t have to like Harris, or even agree with most of her policies, but she is not a trainwreak of a human being and would most certainly be a better person for the job. Any job.
As a Canadian, to know that a garbage heap of a person like Trump could be freely given excessive power by the voting public only tells me that it could happen in Canada, even if the alternative candidate was 1000x better in every way.
North America, and democracy as a whole, seems doomed. And with rich idiots, podcast morons, and domestic terrorists actively supporting a candidate like that, I worry about the future stability of our global community. And we aren’t even close to being prepared for what malicious use of AI could do during an election.
It takes far more effort and time to build a peaceful, balanced society. And less than four years to completely dismantle that progress.
I don’t feel as bad as I thought I would. I’ve been an NDP voter all my life, so like most lefties I was shocked by Trump’s win in 2016, horrified by his COVID bullshit, and appalled by his conspiracy theories and violent rhetoric in the 2024 campaign. Trump is so obviously horrible that I kept asking the same question: how could HALF of the US electorate support him? I just can’t believe that HALF of America are fascist misogynistic white supremacists.
So, I started listening to alternative media. For example, I listened to Trump’s interview with Joe Rogan (yes, the whole three+ hours). I listened to Bari Weiss’s Honestly podcast, where she talks to disaffected progressives, and had a great debate between Sam Harris and Ben Shapiro. And many others.
So far, this is what I’ve come up with:
- The Democratic Party has abandoned the traditional working class, or at least the working class feels abandoned by the Democratic Party. The Dems have become “cultural elites” that too many average people just can’t identify with at all. Trump may not be good for the working class, but at least he speaks to them and their concerns. This of course leads to a discussion about how the Dems would have a better relationship with labour if they hadn’t fucked over Bernie Sanders.
- The Democratic Party has become obsessed with identity politics, at the expense of real issues that matter to most people. Identity politics is pure poison that has become the leftist version of McCarthyism to a lot of people.
- The Dems foreign policy is seen as weak by both the left and right. They fucked around on the Ukraine war to the point where Russia is now winning. And they lifted the sanctions on Iran that allowed it to fund Islamist groups like Hamas, Hezbollah, and the Houthis and blow up the Middle East. And the left is pissed off that they don’t speak out against Israel’s aggressive policy toward the Palestinians. So, the Dems aren’t pleasing anyone when it comes to foreign policy.
- The Dems had a good issue with reproductive rights, but a lot of states are moving to protect reproductive rights on theor own (including ballot measures), which may have relieved some of the pressure on Trump.
- People talk a lot about Trump being better for the economy. I’m not sure economists would agree, but that is a large part of the sentiment favouringTrump. Edit: 6. Immigration. How could I forget immigration. Illegal immigration really pisses off Americans, including and perhaps especially among legal immigrants. I’m not sure that immigrants love Trump’s immigration position, but most of the country see the Dems as too ideologically compromised by identity politics to be able to do anything constructive on immigration.
You don’t have to agree with those positions and I don’t plan on defending them. This is just what I’ve picked up in trying to understand why so many people vote for Trump.
There are some important parallels and lessons here for the next Canadian election. Trudeau and the Liberals parallel the cultural elitism of the establishment Democrats. Singh appeals more to the identity politics culture warriors than he does to the working class. This is a big departure from the NDP’s traditional roots in the labour movement. And Poilievre is Trump’s mini-me. So, what can we do in Canada to avoid a repeat of the left’s failure in the US election? Doubling down on identity politics and cultural elitism isn’t going to go well.
You’re doing amazing work here. Not enough people are trying to make an effort to understand far right voters. You don’t have to agree with the policies, but you do still have to make an effort to understand why they appeal to people and makes them want to vote that way.
Liberal parties (Democrats, LPC, etc.) have been ignoring this for far too long and in my opinion, that’s why they keep losing. They lose and blame the voters for not seeing the world the way they do, but they don’t have any understanding or perspective of what the world looks like through the eyes of these voters. That’s why they don’t have any appeal and things are just going to continue getting worse as long as they continue ignoring the real issues that affects voters.
(Unless a real alternative party emerges, I suppose…)
I’m listening to the CBC right now and the prevailing opinion I’m hearing is that the Democrats lost because Biden waited too long to step aside. Talk about learning all the wrong lessons.
Watch how the Liberal narrative will emphasize that. They want Trudeau to step aside, and if (when) they lose to the Cons they’ll say it’s because Trudeau wouldn’t step aside. Or if he does step aside, he didn’t step aside early enough.
Of all the things they learned from this election, it’s how to make excuses when they lose. Somehow, my opinion of the Liberal party continues to sink even lower. I didn’t even think that was possible…
Thank you very much for this summary. Sadly I do feel some sort of understanding to a lot of Trump voters that genuinely thought they were making a good decision, and I think your summary reflects why people would feel that way. I 100% disagree with them, but I can understand their frustration and do see a lot of that reflected in Canadian politics as well.
I’m curious about the comment on Singh. As long as I’ve been following/supporting the NDP, I’ve always felt like they were more working class and really haven’t seen a whole lot of identity politics in their expressions. With the exception of maybe racism stuff, but I feel like given Jagmeet’s own (obvious) identity, this would be a central issue to him as a leader and to them as a party. I have seen them express in interviews about concerns for the working class many times otherwise.
I think a lot of people think trump is good for economy for reasons like stripping away environmental regulations. Sure it might make a company cheaper to operate without regulations but often times it is exponentially more expensive to deal with the damages.
That’s way more complex thinking that what people actually do around this. They think he’s good for the econony because he’s rich, or at least plays rich on TV.
CEOs may see him as good for business because rhey believe he’ll make running their businesses cheaper, but the average Trump voter just sees “rich = good with money”, because most people ultimately believe that the world is on some level fair, and if he’s rich it must mean he got there fairly.
Before the EPA the Cuyahoga River was at times more fire than water.
You’re absolutely correct in your conclusions. I’ve been trying to spread the same message and get my close friends to see this situation for what it is, and all I get for my efforts is called a libertarian (which I’m not), or be told I’m racist (I live in a blended family and friends group).
The leftist elitists in the USA love to scoff at the close-minded bigotry from the right, and pat themselves on the back about how open minded they are, while being completely closed off to anyone who tries to tell them how they’re alienating people, and causing strife with their identity politics.
Identity politics are poison. They seem purposefully engineered to sow division, instead of their stated goal of inclusion. I’ve tried to talk about this online a few times and gave up after being eviscerated by people parroting agenda points rather than actually engaging in a conversation.
The left, or the Democrats, or whatever you want to call them, have continually alienated huge portions of the population, portions required to win elections and actually change policies, with issues that affect miniscule portions of the population.
I want everyone to be treated equally. I want equality and inclusion. You don’t obtain that by telling 60% of the people in the country that their voices don’t matter, their opinions don’t matter, and their only job is to shut up and listen. Yes, it’s wise to listen more than you talk when someone who has experienced something you haven’t is sharing their experiences with you. But the overtly hostile fashion in which that message has been spread is offensive, and damaging, and alienating, and we saw the outcome of that last night.
I would warrant caution and nuance when considering the effect of IdPol on these things. It’s a term that’s been abused and bastardized to high heaven, and it’s a concept that the right has made ample, productive (for them) use of.
The politics of whiteness, the politics of masculinity, the politics of white masculinity, the politics of Christian conservatism, the politics of white nationalism, of Christian nationalism, of white-Christian nationalism, etc., are all IdPol. These are identity groups that the right has very successfully leaned on and groomed.
If you actually look at the Democrats, the Liberals, or even the NDP, what Identity Politics do they actually spout? What do they say that’s such a turn off, with respect to IdPol? It’s very little. Instead, what you actually see is them focusing on issues that matter to women, immigrants, and people of colour, but not to the exclusion of others.
But the right has used the fact that they speak of non-white, non-male, non-Christians at all and used it to reinforce the Identity Politics of the blue collar voter.
The aggrivated teenage sitting at the dinner table whining at you about how racist and imperialist the country is is not engaging in IdPol. They’re engaging in the process of coming to terms with the fact that the world is not how it has been portrayed to them. But the rural Canadian or American voting against their interest because the party that is going to fuck them or their community over the most has done the work to sure up their identity as white, rural, and working class.
Their politics and support follows their identity, not their interests or policy preferences.
That is Identity Politics. And you’re right, it’s toxic.
It’s just not what you were using the word to mean.
The other thing that I’d add to this is that, post-pandemic, a lot of people have felt the pinch of shifting economic realities. A lot of decisions from years and decades past that have masked the costs neoliberal policies and corporate cost cutting have come home to roost, and it has left people feeli g stressed out and resentful.
They feel their quality of life and standard of living starting to slip, and they see the injustice of the system supporting their bosses, their landlords, and their banks, but not them. And they see who’s currently at the wheel.
Because of this, they also grow increasingly resentful towards discussions of people who need help. They feel like no one is there to help them as the world shifts around them, and yet they have smug culture warriors telling them that they’re worse than Hiitler for not thinking of people they’ll never meet, half a world away.
Trump and Milhouse will not help them, but at least they will not tell them that they are not deserving. And that’s more than what they perceive Democrats, the Liberals, or the NDP doing for them.
Yeah, I think a lot of the parallels in Canada is that the failure here is with the NDP, not the Liberals or Conservatives. Overall, those two parties haven’t changed, but at some point - post Layton - the NDP apparently decided to go down that same identity politics road, while similarly abandoning the general working class. Maybe they felt they just weren’t getting enough votes with the latter and there were enough who felt strongly about such social issues, but FFS they could have at least tried harder to support BOTH.
I’m honestly starting to wonder if the reason they’ve continued to support the Liberals is not so much a fear of z Conservative government, but rather if there’s some dirt the Liberals have on NDP leadership to keep them on a leash. Nothing else really explains why they’ve continued down this path of political suicide.
Empathy at what my American friends are going through, and dread about our own incoming conservative wave.
Numb. Sad. Mostly numb.
I was cheering for Kamala. I wanted the US to succeed. She had the big rallies, the celebrity endorsements, the polls were saying it was neck-and-neck. It looked like sanity was going to prevail. Then Trump just basically sweeps it and it’s like…oh. It’s easy to call the Americans “stupid” or whatever insults I’ve seen flying around the internet, but there was a vote. He won the vote. Over 72 million people think that Trump and the Republican ideology lines up best with their ideology. Who am I to argue with that? I don’t agree with it, but I guess that’s democracy in action. Regardless of what lies were told or what disinformation was spread, people overwhelmingly went out, voted for ol’ Donny, and this is the result. That’s how she goes I guess…? I don’t fucking know anymore dude.
My heart absolutely breaks for the people of Ukraine. I’m sure they’ll lose their US support come January. They don’t deserve that.
