Especially with the rise of “ghost postings” so quantity over quality is greater than ever these days
Maybe it’s the shit market that I’m applying to, but when I apply for a retail job, they want a fully filled out application (that auto fill always Borks, so I have to type everything in manually) as well as a cover sheet and some places want you to take a personality quiz that you have to pass for hr to even see your application. I couldn’t imagine applying to 4 jobs a day, let alone 40.
I imagine we are talking about corporate postings where you just paste a link to LinkedIn and that does most of the work?
Unless something really good comes up yeah. Also most of the time I just put my generic CV up and get calls from recruiters. So the actual people hiring don’t even see my CV
Had one guy apply for a job in my field saying “My experiences in different field> will help me as <job title>.”
There is very little overlap in hard skills (soft ones obviously do help). Not like that matters a whole lot - their actual list of past jobs and skills would have landed them an interview at least, because we already expect it to be a learn-as-you-go type of deal. Bro would have been better off leaving it out and I would have just assumed they’re trying to strike out in a different direction.
(I told HR to invite them for an interview anyway, because fuck cover letters - I’m not gonna hold anyone to a higher standard there than I’d like to be held to)
Tried both, tried a normal resume and a resume with an ATS-focused layout, tried AI-based tools meant to help you improve your resume, and a few other things, and after more than forty applications in six months, what finally got me an interview and then very quickly an offer was an internal referral from a friend/ex-coworker. For context, I am a software engineer.
Fun fact: the average response time after submitting an application was 48 days.
Yeah, as I’m going to move across my country I’m basically calling on everyone I know to give me references there. I figure it’s time that my extroversion help me instead of hurting me like usual
and after more than forty applications in six months
That’s not “spray and pray”
I just started a job search yesterday and I’m already at about 40 applications. My job search before this one I went from search start to offer in ~2 weeks w/ ~200 applications in, all manual. Though my industry is IT, so I do have a bit of flexibility as far as roles go, but still 6 applications/month is a bit on the low side IMO
Yeah usually I send like 40 or applications each week. I imagine if you are in a specific field then it’s a lot harder to do the spray and pray method tho
Never have done a cover letter. Just seems like pandering pretentious tripe
This may be Australia specific, but do job postings not spell out what they want in other countries?
Like, job postings in Australia (these days) are: this is the job, here are the key selection criteria, please provide us a resume and cover letter (or just a resume, or cover letter optional, etc). Even down to maximum number of pages sometimes.
They just tell you, and part of the way they weed people out is if they fail to follow what’s written (simple way to weed out anyone paying no attention).
Do other countries just have to GUESS what the recruitment managers want at each company?
Only about 3 out of 10 jobs I have applied for stipulated a cover letter and those 3 were trying to appear bigger than they were in other ways
I always thought of a cover letter for clarifying something on your resume. Ex: you’re changing careers or industries and out want to clarify why your experience is relevant. So, I don’t do them for every application but in certain situations.
Same. They already have my resume and application for the job, I’m not writing a whole page groveling and begging them to hire me.
When I get them from new grads I delete them. Experienced people or weird resumes I might read if borderline.
It’s worth writing a generic one.
Depends on the job, for engineering…nah
I’ve had multiple recruiters tell me they like mine. It doesn’t hurt. More space for buzzwords for the AI to read.
I just got an AI to write a cover letter for me highlighting specific skjlls, and then just edited those skills to fit the job I was applying to. Wasn’t really that much effort, and I did land a job in about 2 weeks of searching.
Never worked with a recruiter
Had enough bad experience from one half to know I don’t want to be on the other half
Spray and pray baby. Getting the recruiter or HR department to like you only gets you in the door. You can’t shortcut actual connections with your actual coworkers.
Right. When I was interviewing people, I honestly couldn’t care less about the CV. I’m an engineer, words are hard. I want a list of your skills, your software proficiencies, and a run-down of your previous jobs along with your responsibilities. When you get here, I’m going to care about finding out how much you know about designing and cad. Then we’ll take a tour of the shop to see if the machinery we build is in your comfort zone. We’ll have some small talk to get a feel for if you’d fit in with the group, and off you’ll go. All said and done, it should be under 45 minutes.
In biology, the top one is called K-strategy and the bottom one R-strategy.
Both are valid strategies.But generally, K is better suited for highly developed, intelligent, cooperative and social animals.
R is better suited for animals that live alone in a hostile environment full of predators.There’s a message about the modern job market in here somewhere I guess.
This sorta applies to the way I typically do it (maybe). I spray-and-pray on 9+ out of 10, because most are mass-posted bullshit. I’m not redoing a cover letter for every bullshit posting.
But if it is clear an actual person is involved (e.g. there is a person’s e-mail listed as a direct point-of-contact or it’s on a small company’s website among only a handful of positions) and/or it is for a job I think I’d really like, I spend more time tailoring everything.
Best of both worlds (potentially).
Yeah, that’s the approach I use too. Eventually I’ll have 2-3 versions of my resume/CV, and a file of typical paragraphs to put in a cover letter. Ideally I’ll have some kind of connection to the company, like: “in a conversation with (Name) at (conference), I learned of your work in (whatever)” or “I am familiar with (product/process) from applying it to my work on (previous work).” Whenever I’m hiring, that sort of cover letter tells me that at least they’ve taken the time to learn about the company, so it’s less likely a waste of time to interview them.
Lol as someone from biomedical sciences I thought you were speaking about applications in the broad field of biology/biological sciences. I was so excited to ask you about what companies would accept an “R strategy” application because fuck this, even for a technical assistant job I need a fucking tailored cover letter every single time because otherwise my application doesn’t even land on anyone’s desk.
So how is that working out for you? Genuinely curious.
For my industry, IT, pretty well. A nice upward career trajectory and an average of about a month from search start to offer over the past couple of jobs
It worked fine for me, I’ve landed three jobs that way. That was a while ago though, the last time was in 2017. My last two jobs I took because I had some connections call out of the blue. I’ve been very fortunate in that regard. I can’t imagine that would happen again, most of my connections are getting close to retirement age at this point.
That’s how plants do it. For a billion years. Must be the best strategy.
Also semen
Stop putting cover letters on your resume. Recruiters spend 7 seconds or less on 1 resume. A cover page essentially is a skip button because we don’t see any pertinent information and move on.
Resumes should be 1 page with a layout that attracts attention but isn’t distracting. Sentences should be structured like bullet points, short, sweet, and to the point.
I feel like this is very situation dependent.
That may be the case in your company or industry, but not everywhere.
In my experience there’s been a big difference between a general resume I’m uploading to a place like a LinkedIn or Indeed (and letting the recruiters come to me), using that uploaded resume to apply to job postings on that site, and sending resume/application to specific companies on their site.
For the first one, hell no, no cover letter. How would that even work? No cover letter is better than a generic one.
For applying for specific postings on these sites? For me it depends on just how good the opportunity is. If I feel like there’s some sort of special connection that makes me tailor made for the role, the money is great, it’s doing really interesting work, or a company I really want to work for? Absolutely I’ll include a cover letter. I’m just looking to get out of a shit job, or the role doesn’t really move the needle, but I think it might be a good fit? Nah, just hit that quick apply button and move on.
But if I’m reaching out to a company directly?
Cover letter every time (unless they specifically say not to). If they don’t want it, they won’t read it, but I’ve never felt like it hurt my chances, and in a few interviews, they’ve specifically mentioned something about it.
I mean you say that, but I got my last amazing job because I mentioned pertinent info in my cover letter that resonated with the recruiter. I wouldn’t have got it if I just sent my resume.
I know it’s just anecdotal but hey
There are definitely different workflows for different recruiters, especially across industries.
Most of the places I applied to in my most recent job hunt had separate places to upload a cover letter and resume. If they didn’t ask for a cover letter, I didn’t write one, but I do see an argument to append one to your resume anyway.
Seriously, the job I have now requried a masters degree. My cover letter and my 10+ years of specfic experience got them to talk to me even though I only have an associates degree.
Now I am the go-to for search commitees in my department, and the only thing worse then no cover letter is when folks use a form one and forget to change ot or fill in the blanks.
I think they’re saying a cover letter is good. But some people’s “resumes” are more than one page with the first page being a cover letter. Almost all job apps have a separate upload for cover letters. If you’re applying in person or over email the rules are completely different.
This is 100% true. But you should also include a cover letter, just as a second document. I mean obviously not if you’re applying for McDonald’s but you get the idea
Mine is 2 pages, and I think everyone I’ve hired has been 2 pages. Maybe it’s kinda dependent on the field you’re in? Idk, i can’t imagine cramming all my proficiencies, jobs, and responsibilities on one page.
It’s always dependent upon the person looking. The question isn’t “will a cover letter get me the job” it’s “do I care to work for a place where the cover letter is what gets me the job”. For me, no.
I felt the same way until a friend of mine helped me redo my cover letter before COVID. Gotten 2 jobs since then and have tripped my salary in a handful of years. The latest gig (that was a salary doubling jump) was through a recruiter who said the cover letter helped me get the interview.
Could you give an example on what your cover letter looks like or maybe some tips?
Can we do bullet bullet points for extra creativity?
My cover letter is just a picture of Rick Astley
Bcc everyone
LPT for all of you job seekers.
One Lemmy gold for you, thank you kind stranger!
Holy shit I love it
I’m a huge Motörhead fan. Sorry, this one is cute, but the other one is better.
Good! Don’t make art for me. Make it for yourself! If you love it, so will others! :D
I didn’t actually make it, it was just a very relevant reaction meme.
This sounds too good to be true. What’s the catch?
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Why is this good? Not being negative, just want to understand.
Easy to customize and have multiples with similar information in different layouts, easily tailor the same experiences to focus on specific types of positions, share your resume as a link, self hosted option with docker, etc.
Its really quite nice. I host my own.
Edit: fixed a word
Oooh, my partner is working on his resume; I’m going to share this with him. Thanks!
It lets you share as a link and you can self host.
You’re my hero
I was really hoping they offered a self hosting option.
Wait, is this live action Boimler?
Oh shit, it is!
It’s from Strange New Worlds.
Apparently I’ll need to watch that soon!
The episode following that one is even better.
Huey smacking down those supes in space now?
Nice.
I still don’t know what a cover letter even is. never used one and don’t plan on starting. no one’s reading that crap anyway
It’s the thing that gets fed into an LLM to opaquely grade you before your resume gets looked at by a human
That’s why you use an LLM to generate it
The resume shows experience and the cover letter shows personality. If the job has any kind of soft skills a cover letter is a bonus, if the job is super technical it’s probably not necessary. It also depends on the workplace.
If it is a job you actually want though I would recommend writing something. I’m on a smaller team and read all the resumes of applicants. I actually read them because I’m going to be the one contacting, interviewing, and working with them. I absolutely read the cover letters and give a small bonus to people who include them.
Is the bottom one not what we’ve all been doing for the past 10 years? If you haven’t worked more than 5 or so places it should also look like that right?
Also fuck cover letters. Never making one, I don’t care who they send
Just do what I do and have an AI generate the cover letter. Saves me a ton of time, and gives me a personalized letter for every job while only writing two sentences.
(But then again Lemmy absolutely hates AI with a blind passion—just as much as you hate cars—so I don’t know why I’m actually suggesting this. It works, though.)
Generating BS cover letters is one of the few good uses I’ve found for chat gpt
That might get you in the door but a poor resume built by AI with key phrases to fool the algorithm will be an insta delete by a human.
Who said anything about resumes built with AI? Certainly not me.
I do it like that, but it has backfired before. I posted a resume that mentions I can code to a teaching position (Highschool maths). Not relevant to the job at all. Got the job. Some random admin person remembered I can write code and that meant that every other teacher should address their IT questions to me. No extra pay and I had to explain Microsoft software a lot of the time, which I don’t even use.
Seems nobody sent the memo to all those career advisers, coaches, job seeking assistance places etc. because I still see it as “recommended practice” LMAO
As someone who hires a lot of MBA types
I could give a shit about your cover letter
I could give a shit about your nice follow up email after the interview
I realize I’m a sample size of one, but I also don’t do cover letters or follow up notes for mydelf and I guess I am doing well enough that I have a bunch of energetic MBA types working for me.
I stan bottom sentiment.
