• TCB13@lemmy.world
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    31 minutes ago

    “oppressive govts that use socialism to hide their atrocities” => welcome to European politics.

  • OBJECTION!@lemmy.ml
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    1 hour ago

    Wait, are you saying “both sides bad?” “Both sides are the same?” Am I hearing this right?

    Look, if either Xi Jinping or Donald Trump is going to emerge as leader of a global hegemon, then any and all criticism of Xi Jinping is the exact same as being a Trump supporter. When are we going to do something about all these secret Trump supporters pretending to be leftists?

    At least, that’s what I’d say if I accepted the absurd logic of lesser evilism the liberals were constantly berating everyone with.

    • Fridam@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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      15 minutes ago

      No, they are saying one side being bad doesn’t make “the other side” perfect or immune to criticism

      The US participating in the Palestinian genicide does not excuse Russia invading Ukraine. The US invading Iraq does not excuse nationalists in India attacking Muslims

      It is not the same thing, and western imperialism doesnt make non-western imperialism ok. Even if it is a lot worse

      • OBJECTION!@lemmy.ml
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        11 minutes ago

        Right, and what I’m saying is that by that very same logic, Trump supporting the Palestinian genocide doesn’t justify the democrats supporting the Palestinian genocide - they should not be considered immune to criticism either, and when people criticize them, they should not be assumed to be supporting the other side.

        • Fridam@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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          3 minutes ago

          Right, so I was replying to you trying to make the meme into a " both sides bad" or “both sides are the same”-argument, pointing out how it is not

          I find your answer to my reply irrelevant to the point I was making

    • deaf_fish@lemm.ee
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      38 minutes ago

      Both sides can be bad in different ways. Just because both sides are considered bad, doesn’t mean they are the same.

  • ZeroOne@lemmy.world
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    2 hours ago

    Except US is biggest imperialist & no one intelligent is supporting Russia just cause “America Bad” Typical RadLib Let’s hear your complains about Socialism (He’s gonna call me a Tankie & ban me huh😂)

  • slumlordthanatos@lemmy.world
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    13 hours ago

    Remember folks: China is communist in the same way that North Korea is democratic and the Nazis were socialist.

    It’s just a smokescreen.

    • MisterFrog@lemmy.world
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      3 hours ago

      Eh, there’s a notional aspiration to socialism at least, which is more than can be said about the US sphere of countries.

      In practice though? Yeah, China is hyper-captialist, without much of the social security present in wealthier countries.

      Why Leftist get a hard-on for the former USSR, Russia and China, or frankly any country, is beyond me.

      There are positive and negative outcomes in line or against socialist ideals everywhere (I think people are too black and white about China in both directions personally)

      I just do not understand simping for any country, just because they are “socialist”.

      • Wxnzxn@lemmy.ml
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        2 hours ago

        That notional aspiration to socialism is basically the ideological smokescreen. It was much more effective in the Cold War era, but it condenses down to: “Suffer through our version of (state) capitalism and exploitative labour for our capital accumulation” - be it by state institutions or even state-sponsored billionaires - “and at the end of it, we promise, there will be communism.”

        But that “communism” then tends to be like nuclear fusion - always 20 years away.

        • bluewing@lemm.ee
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          1 hour ago

          My money is on fusion before proper socialism.

          There is always someone willing to twist the rules and game the system to get more money and power than everyone else. The 1% have always existed and so have the worker class. It will always shake out to that.

      • [email protected]@lemmy.federate.cc
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        3 hours ago

        IMO this is why it takes an additional axis to define a government, not just left/right but also free/authoritarian. You can find examples of all combinations. Left wing and repressive? Cuba. Left leaning and free? Sweden. Right wing and repressive? Russia, Saudi Arabia, whatever. Right leaning and free (mostly)? USA.

        Obviously, there’s a gradient within these axes, but it’s strange to see people cheering on a country that matches their preferred left or right wing ideology if they’re super repressive.

        • RidderSport@feddit.org
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          24 minutes ago

          I think Saudi Arabia is the perfect example of why even that model isn’t even enough. I mean sure they are a monarchy and quite self-focused but not really in a nationalistic way. To be fair I don’t know much about their domestic politics. To put them into the same corner as Russia, eh dunno.

          • OBJECTION!@lemmy.ml
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            14 minutes ago

            I couldn’t ask for clearer evidence than not accepting Saudi Arabia as authoritarian to demonstrate that “free vs authoritarian” are just propaganda terms and that how “free” a country allegedly is is really just a function of how aligned it is with the US.

            In what universe is Saudi Arabia more free than Cuba?

        • GrammarPolice@lemmy.world
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          3 hours ago

          This is why we need to reeducate people and stop using the traditional left-right spectrum and start using the axis spectrum

    • JWayn596@lemmy.world
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      13 hours ago

      A core tenant of socialism is a democratized workplace, being able to vote for your wage and company policy, like an Engineer choosing when to launch the rocket instead of some MBS degree.

      Last time I checked I dont think factory workers in China that make all our shit can do that.

      • Antiproton
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        3 hours ago

        Which is also why socialism will never work. Humans are piss poor at evaluating the common good and making decisions collectively (see also: the last US election.)

      • Eldritch@lemmy.world
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        11 hours ago

        Yes. That was the point of what they posted. None of those groups are what they claim to be beyond nominally.

  • ✺roguetrick✺@lemmy.world
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    12 hours ago

    Really though, the level of imperialism apologizing I’ve seen has been pretty humorous on this platform. Like people will say with a straight face that we need to support our client state Israel to secure our regional interests. It’s the same song and dance from the concert of Europe giving guns to the corrupt African client kings so they can murder the other guy’s corrupt African client kings. All for the noble civilizing influence of the state. But this time it’ll turn out different. Just like it was different every other fucking time an empire ideologically justified it’s imperialism. Because this one time is exceptional, unlike all the other instances of exceptionalism. Furthermore, I consider Carthage to need to be destroyed

    • RustyEarthfire@lemmy.world
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      9 hours ago

      Really though, the level of imperialism apologizing I’ve seen has been pretty humorous on this platform. Like people will say with a straight face that we need to support our client state Israel to secure our regional interests.

      Is this being federated from some platform other than Lemmy? Because I have literally never seen someone support that position here.

  • pimento64@sopuli.xyz
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    19 hours ago

    “NOOOOOOO you have to pick one of the two teams or you’re a RADICAL CENTRIST!!!”

    • Astronauticaldb@lemmy.world
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      16 hours ago

      Not really the point, but that’s a funny little oxymoron; to be a radical anything you’d need to be actually committed to something so much that you want to do actual ground work to further a cause.

      • Kusimulkku@lemm.ee
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        15 hours ago

        It is a real thing but the term radical is used a bit different

        The radical in the term refers to a willingness on the part of most radical centrists to call for fundamental reform of institutions.[1] The centrism refers to a belief that genuine solutions require realism and pragmatism, not just idealism and emotion

        So not radical as in extremist action but radical change

    • themeatbridge@lemmy.world
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      19 hours ago

      Now hang on. If you pretend the two teams are the same and refuse to pick a side because neither is perfect so it doesn’t matter, you are an enabler of fascism.

      You can support a team while acknowledging their flaws. Refusing to play because the better team isn’t perfect is either naive or malicious.

        • Soup@lemmy.world
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          19 hours ago

          You still have to commit to an actual decision when the times come. Adjusting each cycle is what everyone should be doing, knowing that each person will likely stay where they’re at because why wouldn’t they?

        • snooggums@lemmy.world
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          18 hours ago

          That’s what I do.

          Not surprisingly, the Republicans are always the worst and the only local opposition that has a slim chance of winning are Dems so I end up voting a straight Dem ticket despite refusing to register for the party. If there was an independent with a chance of winning I would consider them, but haven’t seen any on the local positions.

        • surewhynotlem@lemmy.world
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          19 hours ago

          If you like being ineffective at driving change, then yes this is an option. Otherwise, you’ll have to work through one of the gate keepers.

          • dmMeYourNudes@lemmynsfw.com
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            18 hours ago

            You do have to take the context of power structures around you into account, but you do not have to assimilate into tribalism to be an effective voter.

      • lugal@sopuli.xyz
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        19 hours ago

        Once you talk about “both teams”, you imply there are only two instead of supporting those who to this day resist all states

        • themeatbridge@lemmy.world
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          19 hours ago

          If you’re talking about a presidential election, there are two teams. The rest of the time, you should work on your own team, but when the big race is happening, there are only two viable contenders.

      • pimento64@sopuli.xyz
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        17 hours ago

        Is this intentional misinterpretation for mischief purposes, or is this your best?

        • themeatbridge@lemmy.world
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          16 hours ago

          No, I’m saying there are “radical centrists” who pretend they are above the fray and claim both sides are equally flawed, while invariably showing up to vote for conservatives.

  • ComradeMiao@lemmy.world
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    18 hours ago

    This is just like how I can praise so many things about China, push back against anti-China US propaganda, and still not pretend it isn’t an authoritarian regime where Xi made himself essentially life time president now.

    Speaking of that, are there any left leaning subs that aren’t delusional?

  • NONE@lemmy.world
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    16 hours ago

    As a Venezuelan who’s against Yankee imperialism and our current oppressive “”“”“Socialist”“”“” government, I approve this message.

  • Snot Flickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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    19 hours ago

    This is literally why the LGBTQ+ community trusts neither the left nor the right, because historically both sides have brutalized them.

    • ZeroOne@lemmy.world
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      2 hours ago

      That’s cuz LGBTQ+ attack all of them with their fake victim narcissism, the REAL question is why would anyone sane tolerate their nastiness Hell even LGBTQ+ attack other LGBTQ+

    • ChicoSuave@lemmy.world
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      18 hours ago

      Corporate leftists, the “libruls”, are right wing political actors pretending to be left wing for a variety of reasons. Supporting business over people is fascism and the liberals are fascists who don’t mean to be.

      • GrammarPolice@lemmy.world
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        6 hours ago

        Supporting business over people is fascism and the liberals are fascists who don’t mean to be.

        Fascism - Any right-wing, authoritarian, nationalist ideology characterized by centralized, totalitarian governance, strong regimentation of the economy and society, and repression of criticism or opposition.

        I understand your sentiment, but please stop pulling shit out of your ass.