This is a major issue for me as a non-native English speaker (it even happens in my own language, but the effect is not as bad). Why do some authors go out of their way to make their books very convoluted? Like they make it so hard for you to connect the dots from different chapters or even the same chapter. What’s the point? Do some readers actually enjoy this? Or is it the author trying to show off/feel superior? (This is not meant as an insult, just an assumption/opinion?). I’ve read several Stephen King books and they’re mostly easy to understand, but sometimes he’d go on tangents where shit doesn’t make any sense. I just skip all that “filling”, as a I call it. Like who’s whom, and what’s just happened? Where did this come from? And so on. Tried with the Malazan book of the fallen, and holy shit. The beginning of the first book was a major pain to understand, so I stopped and I’ve been reading more English books so I can get better then go back to it. On the other hand, my wife has introduced me to this writer, Freida McFadden. The lady has the most straight forward books I’ve ever read. You read and you understand everything from start to end. I don’t even find myself getting distracted like I do with the books that I have a hard time understanding. Her books are very clear and the English she uses is very simple in terms of vocabulary. Vocabulary… That’s another can of worms that I don’t want to open.
Thanks for reading my rant.

  • NateNate60@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    22
    ·
    edit-2
    6 days ago

    The majority of writers in English write books with the expectation that a majority of their readers will be native English speakers. And for the most part, this is true.

    The vocabulary of native English bibliophiles is, on average, much wider than the vocabulary of someone who learns it as a second language. This is nothing inherent to speakers of English; almost everyone speaks their own native language better than a foreign language.

    Complex plot lines are not unique to English either, but it is more noticeable when you consider the added mental strain of reading in a non-native language. Regardless, there are plenty of authors, as you have found, who will write simpler prose with more linear storytelling. Each writer has their own style. What might be meaningless filler to you could be considered flavourful world building or character building by someone else.

    Literature is like food: people tend to prefer food from their culture over foreign foods, and if you don’t like certain cooking styles or certain flavours, you can certainly find food that better matches your preferences. And it’s also similar to how some people think rice is flavourless and boring while for others, it’s an integral part of the meal and it would not feel complete without it.

    • penquin@lemm.eeOP
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      2
      ·
      6 days ago

      I love this take. I agree 100%. To diverge a little, though, I’d wager that an author would reach more people if they didn’t target only native English speakers, especially in this day and age. This is the age of the internet where different backgrounds are interacting more than ever before. I agree with the rest of your take completely. And as a personal anecdote, I was reading an Arabic book called “Utopia” by an Arabic Author (my native language). I dropped that book the second I hit chapter 2. It was just not making sense. I wasn’t able to follow the story. I don’t know what the Author was doing, but it was very bad even though it’s my own language.

  • betterdeadthanreddit@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    11
    ·
    6 days ago

    So pretentious assholes like me can grumble-brag about how hard it was to read James Joyce’s Ulysses. Also so you can tell that somebody’s a liar when they say they’ve read it.

  • expr
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    5
    ·
    6 days ago

    Stephen King was on a lot of cocaine when writing his most famous books. A lot of them have weird stuff or stuff that isn’t all that coherent.

    But yeah I mean reading literature in another language really is a whole different experience than just conversing in that language. Many authors bend or break conventional rules for literary effect, and many languages even have dedicated language constructs and idioms for literary writing. I’d even go so far to say that being able to effectively read literature in a language is a step beyond fluency and reflects a deep understanding of the language.

    • penquin@lemm.eeOP
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      1
      ·
      6 days ago

      Well, that makes a lot of sense now. Lol
      King does go on some tangents that seem to make no sense sometimes. So that all makes sense now. Also, thank you for the encouragement. I love reading would be understatement on how I feel towards reading. I’ve been reading since I was about 12, and I’m talking big books, be it fiction or nonfiction. It’s something that has been with me my whole life and I don’t think I’ll ever completely stop. I read books back home when we didn’t have power in our house and my only entertainment was practice calligraphy and reading books. It’s like a part of my person, if that makes sense.

    • penquin@lemm.eeOP
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      1
      ·
      6 days ago

      Writing in a way that is not understandable. It’s like they have an idea in their head and they give us some of it and expect us to get the rest of it from their head with some kind of magic communication power or something

  • conciselyverbose@sh.itjust.works
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    7
    ·
    6 days ago

    There are some who are convoluted to be convoluted, and I don’t enjoy that.

    But there are some who use more advanced vocabulary simply because different words have different meanings and communicate different ideas. Bigger or less common words can allow you to add substance that is more difficult to communicate with shorter, simple ones.

  • BitchPeas@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    2
    ·
    6 days ago

    Some of us need stimulation. A three piece jigsaw puzzle won’t do it. Give me the 10,000 piece puzzle.

    I rejoice in an author who writes for pleasure and meaning, who asks difficult questions, who doesn’t limit themselves, who creates and exploits paradox.

    It helps my intellect grow, captures my attention, and leaves delicious remnants to decipher long after completion of the material. The ability to read again with a different perspective is beautiful.

    So no, it’s not pretentious or confusing. It is just more difficult for some, immensely pleasurable to others.

  • SattaRIP@lemmy.blahaj.zone
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    2
    ·
    edit-2
    6 days ago

    I’m an indie author. Idk how common my experience is, but here goes.

    I’ve self published one book, but I want to go back and make a 2nd edition, after I finish book 2. My primary goal in writing was to get anyone to enjoy it. I realized onky after publishing that accessibility is important, and I’ve adapted my writing style. How I realized was that my relative who have English as their second or third language couldn’t understand my writing.

    The only people who managed to finish my book were all writers, I believe. In order to get through m book they needed to accept that sometimes my writing didn’t make sense to them, so they continued regardless.

    • penquin@lemm.eeOP
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      1
      ·
      6 days ago

      Man, this is great. It’s good to think diversely when you write. Aim to reach all backgrounds, not only native English speakers. I promise you that I won’t think less of you if you make your book easy to understand. To me, it’s the story itself. The plot. How attractive it is and how immersed It’s going to make me into it, not how badass your vocabulary are (is?). Not how complicated your novel is. I’m that guy who leaves a book when it is hard to understand and hard to make sense of (I have recently dropped a book by a great author, Ursula Guin, because it was insanely hard to follow). I’m not in it to test my IQ, I’m in it to entertain myself when I have a minute. We are all constrained on time, and the few hours we have daily, shouldn’t be wasted on something that hardly makes any sense. That’s at least how I look at it.

  • WxFisch@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    2
    ·
    6 days ago

    I think it’s twofold, bad writers and attempts to write “deeply”. A lot of authors that right good stories are not good writers, George Lucas is an excellent example of this. He builds good worlds with interesting stories but everyone I’ve talked to agrees that A New Hope (written by him) is just super poorly written. The second one includes writers like George R R Martin who include a ton of setting, descriptions, and expose in an attempt to make their books feel more like literature than modern novels. Occasionally this works but in most cases it seems to raise the difficulty of reading the book without adding to the story. In many ways this is just a different flavor of bad writer, though I think more often these authors do it on purpose compared to those in my first group.

  • BearOfaTime@lemm.ee
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    1
    arrow-down
    6
    ·
    6 days ago

    Like The Hobbit, where he takes a paragraph to describe the door on the hobbit’s home?

    Some of the most over-rated, blathering, pretentious bullshit I’ve ever read. Someone who feels compelled to create an entire language for his characters is just showing off. Bunch of Emperor’s New Clothes ego-stroking trash.

    And at this point I’ve read a few thousand novels, and a few hundred educational tomes (stuff that’s great for insomnia) and Tolkien has that beat by a thousand miles.

    • jordanlund@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      4
      ·
      6 days ago

      It’s one sentence of a paragraph my friend.

      “It had a perfectly round door like a porthole, painted green, with a shiny yellow brass knob in the exact middle.”

      Full paragraph describes the entire home:

      “It had a perfectly round door like a porthole, painted green, with a shiny yellow brass knob in the exact middle. The door opened on to a tube-shaped hall like a tunnel: a very comfortable tunnel without smoke, with panelled walls, and floors tiled and carpeted, provided with polished chairs, and lots and lots of pegs for hats and coats—the hobbit was fond of visitors. The tunnel wound on and on, going fairly but not quite straight into the side of the hill—The Hill, as all the people for many miles round called it—and many little round doors opened out of it, first on one side and then on another. No going upstairs for the hobbit: bedrooms, bathrooms, cellars, pantries (lots of these), wardrobes (he had whole rooms devoted to clothes), kitchens, dining-rooms, all were on the same floor, and indeed on the same passage. The best rooms were all on the left- hand side (going in), for these were the only ones to have windows, deep-set round windows looking over his garden, and meadows beyond, sloping down to the river.”

      Tolkien is painting a picture with his words.

    • penquin@lemm.eeOP
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      1
      ·
      6 days ago

      I wouldn’t go as far as calling it “trash”, but I see what you mean and that’s basically my gripe with some Authors. I personally skip all of that “filling” whenever I run into it. I don’t need to know extensive details about a lake, or the sky or, like you mentioned, a hobbit door. lol

  • mittyta@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    1
    arrow-down
    3
    ·
    6 days ago

    Totally understand you. I think it’s made to show off. But also sometimes it’s made to make book more interesting like a detective. So a reader who could connect these dots feel superior above others.