Fascism is a massive violent manifestation of ignorance. The only real solution is to undo the brainwashing of humanity - their brainwashing with religion, their brainwashing to accept abusive hierarchical rule, all of it. Everyone must fully understand.
People responding with “guns”, “WW2” - we did that already, 70 million people died, and here we are again. Why and how did it come back? What is the actual source of the problem? Treating this problem as only solvable with mass murder isn’t exactly putting you on the moral high ground. What conditions give rise to acceptance of fascist beliefs, or the acceptance of a fascist leader? What are the mental, social, cultural, behavioral traits of the people that do accept that? How can those traits be prevented from forming?
One day AI is going to figure out that humans are the actual problem in that equation when it asks why does it always come full circle and repeat and war is never ending. And it may try to find a solution.
The internet is the foundation for the solution. This is the only thing that evaporates the illusions and divisions rulers create for their own benefit. Otherwise we end up with red scares, witch hunts, inquisitions, and all the other same crap from history. Unfortunately they’re chipping away at it - centralized social media is a powerful propaganda tool with no constitutional restraints, as is online censorship and surveillance.
Violence really, really fucking sucks.
It may be necessary, but if there’s any other option you should look to that first. If it legitimately comes to violence a lot of innocent people are going to suffer in a big way.
There were other options. I think those other options failed at this point in time.
Why haven’t i seen this side by side with Nazis? Or him put in the rally or along side Hitler etc?
These all seem like simple edits
Well that’s a little on the nose isn’t it.
It’s a weird salute he’s doing there that guy on the left.
Some kind of awkward excitement reaction i guess.
His heart really goes to his people, doesn’t it?
I did this one…
His spokesperson in Italy said that he meant to say “I give my heart to you” with that gesture. I mean, dude, just own it up. It’s not like there would have been any repercussion.
I wonder what he is thinking, that is odd looking face
It’s the face of effort. Dude probably doesn’t get off of the computer chair very much, and lifting his arms above the ‘loose hang, elbows bent, wrists resting on desk’ takes a lot of effort, and thus the grimace from struggling.
Nah, it’s just drugs. I mean, I think Elon Musk strikes me as a person who’d love to have the… for the lack of a better word, “courage” to perform the Nazi salute under such circumstances when actually totally sober, but a guy that had to fake Path of Exile 2 success is simply not gonna throw a Nazi salute on stage, even in front of people he sees as supports and loyalists.
I wonder if that absolutely bizarre specimen has been truly sober in last years. Or ever, if we count being high up your own ass as an altered state.
Yeah, I feel like violence is evangelized online in odd ways.
The class that suffers the most in violent uprisings is the lowest class. By orders of magnitude. For every member of the bourgeois that is taken down, tens or hundred or thousands of every day people are injured or killed.
But it’s already happening. They’re already suffering.
“They” (we) aren’t being killed en masse.
Take it from us who dont live in a country built on liebensraum created by genociding the native population and has spent all its VERY short existance not knowing tyranny or how to separate church, state and private companies.
Classless society leads to death of millions and classed society. Lowest class loves killing lowest class. Once the preceived opressors run out more will be found. People wanting violence want it for selfish reason. The guy calling to kill all landlords today will be raping your small daughter in a state organized torture dungeon tomorrow. Yes its graphic, yes this is what you get when you want mass violence, stop pretending otherwise and buying into propaganda of evil people.
This is how it has always been, and always will be. Slow social reforms is the way to get what you want. Violence just creates more violence.
I agree with your anti-violence stance, but can’t ignore the reasoning behind it.
I don’t believe there’s some special class that either accumulates or breeds violence. I don’t believe that the “lowest” class, whatever that might be, is fixed on killing its kin. The people ruling Nazi Germany certainly weren’t the “lowest” class when they were making their impactful decisions, many of which killed members of other classes, not theirs.
Neither Trump nor Musk are “low” class, yet they tend to hold the more absurd and anti-human views, separating people into worthy and not-so-much and believing they can make destinies.
There are dangerous people in our world, which are often attracted by power, often any sort of power they can rise to. Violence included.
Regardless, violence only breeds violence, for so many reasons that no comment can hold. Violence traumatizes and creates examples and “Why can’t I, too?..” questions, etc.
Peace as a choice is only possible when the option of violence exists.
In all fairness there are non violent support roles
Somebody has to build the drones and c4 kits
It’s not that people die commiting acts of violence, it’s that people minding their own business or just trying not to be violent, also end up violently dismembered with their families.
Supporting the violence is participating in it. Maybe you’re on the “good” side but still. If you work a normal 9-5 go home shoot the shit with your buds and volunteer at a homeless shelter… You’re still not a good person when your job is making bombs getting shipped to Israel.
To be fair, both Ghandi and MLK Jr. showed that there is an alternative to violence that can be very effective in gaining support.
That being said, I do think the Black Panthers/Malcom X were very instrumental in the civil rights movement. I think the leadership saw two options: work with MLK Jr. or deal with the Black Panthers.
Of course, the FBI, amongst other groups in power at the time were able to successfully thwart MLK Jr.'s attempt at educating people about class consciousness. MLK Jr. wasn’t just fighting for equal rights among racial lines, but also economic lines.
Hell, Jesus Christ was able to start an entire religion based in nonviolent protest based around class consciousness. Of course, that religion has since been perverted, but the point still stands.
MLK and the Civil Rights Movement have been majorly white-washed since they happened. That narrative is a big reason why protests since have been largely ineffectual in the US.
MLK supported the Black Panthers and Malcolm X and said that the only reason that he didn’t do anything more than the sit-ins and such was because that was already illegal and anything more could get them all jail time. And he was still seen as being just as violent as they made BLM out to be.
The Million Man March was seen as a threat of violence by white America. If he could get a million people to mobilize in the capital and shut down the entire city, what else could he get them to do?
Also, civil rights were only put into law after a full-on week of violence that burned down entire sections of cities and did millions in property damage. Years of protests led to flowery words. A week of riots saw the bills written, voted on, and codified into law.
They only worked with the threat of violence if they failed.
And they’ve both been WAY watered down in modern tellings…
Gandhi could grind the whole subcontinent to halt just by asking. It was economic violence in a sense.
The problem with violence is that the bad guys are usually better at violence.
I wouldn’t say better at violence, just better equipped.
I wouldn’t say better at violence, just better
equippedfunded.FTFY.
Not true. Japan was definitely the Bad Guys. US was able to commit more violence then they were.
Sure but to Japanese Americans where the bad guys. Which is why the real world is more complicated then a movie but everyone wants to make it black and white.
Woo hoo…? I guess!
The US wasn’t the good guys against Japan. They just were slightly less bad for about 5 years before and 6 months after.
So you don’t know your history.
Or they know that there weren’t any “Good guys” around.
The Japanese war crimes are well known in the West. The US ones are routinely glossed over or ignored.
Wars don’t determine who was right. They determine who’s left.
There are no evidence of US war crimes even coming close to Japan, Germany or Russia at the time or superceding it. Where are the tens of millions of bodies, rammer? Where are they?
You’re joking, right? Nazi Germany wishes they could commit genocide in the scale of the early US.
#VITA
Unions and strikes
Not mine, but from a post: First, you’re never going to win a head-on battle with an adversary that’s got you outgunned. That’s not the point of the Resistance. The point is to create friction, make it hard for your adversary to operate, to increase transaction costs.
Second, resistance doesn’t have to be a dramatic act. It can be a small act, like losing a sheet of paper, taking your time processing something, not serving someone in a restaurant. Small acts taken by thousands have big effects.
Third, use your privilege and access if you’ve got it. He and his buddies stole weapons from the Nazis by driving up with a truck to the weapons depot, speaking German, acting like it was a routine pick up, and driving away.
Fourth, part of the third point really, sometimes the best way to do things is right out in the open. Because no one will believe something like what you’re doing would be happening so blatantly. All good Social Engineers know this.
Five, bide your time. But be ready for opportunity when it strikes. Again, your action need not be dramatic. Just a little sand in the gears helps.
Six, and this is a no-brainer, operate in cells to limit damage to the resistance should they take you out. Limit the circulation of info to your cell, avoid writing things down and…
Seven, be very careful with whom you trust. Snitches and compromised individuals are everywhere. My dad was arrested because of a snitch. His friends weren’t so lucky, the Gestapo machine gunned the cabin they were in without bothering to try and arrest them.
Eight, use the skills you have to contribute. Dad was an electrical engineer. When the Nazis imposed the death penalty for owning a radio (the British sent coded messages to the Resistance after BBC shows) he said he became the most popular guy in town.
I’m not sure how applicable this is to the current situation.
It is very much applicable.
Second, resistance doesn’t have to be a dramatic act. It can be a small act, like losing a sheet of paper, taking your time processing something, not serving someone in a restaurant. Small acts taken by thousands have big effects.
Fourth, part of the third point really, sometimes the best way to do things is right out in the open. Because no one will believe something like what you’re doing would be happening so blatantly. All good Social Engineers know this.
Five, bide your time. But be ready for opportunity when it strikes. Again, your action need not be dramatic. Just a little sand in the gears helps.
Every government needs to work. It depends on its loyalists to give it financial and organizational support in exchange for economic benefits.
So anything that interferes with the “normal” order of things is an act of resistance. Also don’t get fooled into the idea, that you will resist once things reach a certain threshold. By then you will feel what needs to be done to be way to big for your own abilities, since you never trained and tried to do anything.
Start with something easy like putting up political stickers around your town. That sounds easy in concept, but you already will train yourself to be brazen, but also on alert if someone politically opposed to you might want to challenge you verbally or attack you physically. You life close to an amazon warehouse? Why not skip a green phase, when the delivery trucks are lined up behind you?
Speaking of Amazon, we see with the Resistance for Palestine, that Boycotts work. Making a point of not buying products from companies that support the Israeli regime can be expanded to also making a point of not buying into the Trump government.
So… the copy pasta isn’t applicable and your best practical advice is putting up stickers?
The answer to OPs question is to build strong, inclusive, local communities with friends and neighbours, as well as charities and existing community groups.
Also, prep. Figure out what you’d need at home to avoid leaving for a week. Assemble a bug out pack. Improve basic skills for independence like sewing, preserving, first aid.
The stuff you copied seems to have neglected to mention these practical, actionable tasks.
I said “start with”. Which also is consistent with point 2, that it does not have to be the grand act of plotting a political execution, robbing the army of their weapons and other activities requiring strong dedication and risk taking.
Also do you expect people on an internet forum to recommend you specific actions that could be considered illegal, for which they could also get in trouble?
historically? socialism.
including (but not limited to) punching nazis in the face until they can be properly buried six feet under.
In sweden we have a statue of an old lady using her handbag as a weapon
ive seen the picture but not the statue.
love the sentiment of it.
This would be a goal, socialism is not an action to fight fascism.
socialism is comprised of a bunch of actions that do fight the root cause of fascism.
No, it doesn’t fight fascism. If you have a socialist country there are things about the system that inherently make it harder for fascism to pop up, but this is prevention. Also if fascism is already in your country, socialism isn’t doing a god damn thing because it doesn’t exist.
Socialism is preventative care on a healthy or mildly sick system, it is not the major surgery needed to remove active cancer.
What can you do as an individual? not much. A community? Now we’re talking.
Find people to fight fascism with.
And do what?
Just having a network of care, looking out for each other and replacing functions a fascist state doesn’t offer any more (think childcare/healthcare/food for those in need) can be a huge act of resistance. Organizing political protests as long as it’s still possible (even if it’s illegal). Strike, sabotage, physical violence … Eventually you will have the choice of imprisonment/death, assimilation or exile to me the last act of resistance will be never to choose assimilation. Continuing to live in exile can be as much of a martyrdom as dying for the cause.
deleted by creator
It might involve the second amendment.
The things being said here are a good start, but you cant do anything without other people. And if you and your community dont like the reccomended actions here? Make up your own plan with them! We cant just wait until we have the perfect plan to stop fascism and fix alll the world’s issues. We need to start working together now.
Fight facism together! Duh!
A few options:
-
Get out. If you’re one of the people fascists want dead, then surviving is in and of itself an act of resistance. Leave their domain. Go somewhere else. And live – Just live. Build a life they can’t touch.
-
Organise and survive under their noses. It will not be easy, even if fascism has a short shelf life… It still does a lot of damage while it is active, and you and yours could end up as their target. Still, your best chance of surviving is by grouping up. Meet your neighbours, meet your local activists, get to know them, and start helping each other.
-
Violence. But. It’s not enough to just go spree killer. The violent response demands organisation. You could join an armed resistance group. Or, if you leave the country, if it comes to war, you could enlist to fight against your old nation. Lots of people did both in the forties.
- Sabotage - purposefully obstruct these lunatics any way you can. Delay their food orders. Slash their tires. etc. Delete emails. Empty gas tanks. If they’re constantly fixing shit there’s less time for them to create problems
I feel like IT people have a lot of efficacy on this one.
-
Couple of things:
- Information : Keep creating and sharing reliable information. Not just opinions, information. We are still the majority, the US fascists is not world, we need to flood all the relevant platforms with our content.
- Education: The reason these monsters have any credibility is because some people are too mentally weak to defend themself from misinformation. We need to educate around in any way possible. Everything counts, keep trying.
- Humor is a powerful weapon. These people have giant ego and 0 humor. Let’s keep ridicule them and have fun at their expense. They need to understand we have some things they can never touch, even with all the money in the world, solidarity, humour and camaraderie.
also hope. Got to show people there is hope so they dont fall into apathy. They got to know others are actively doing something and refuse to be silenced. I have been trying to look for this for long time now and its not been good.
“A Riot is the language of the unheard”
-Martin Luther King Jr.
“When peaceful revolution becomes impossible, violent revolution becomes inevitable”
-John F. Kennedy
As per lemmy.world rules, I’m obligated to say that I do not condone violence, just quoting some people, interpret it however you wish to. 😉
Removed by mod
Imagine the memes if someone started shooting Nazis and his name happened to be Mario
Indiana Jones had the right idea
deleted by creator
And how do we fight people like Luigi?
Found the healthcare exec
When you fight one evil with another evil, it’s natural to ask how to deal with the second one after it eliminates the first one.
That’s some Batman level bullshit argument.
How so? What he did isn’t encouraged by any means.
Removed by mod
Removed by mod
Removed by mod
Check this book with 20 relatively specific actions written by a historian https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_Tyranny
Also here are the rules briefly summarized. https://scholars.org/contribution/twenty-lessons-fighting-tyranny-twentieth
I think this one rings particularly strong today.
- Take responsibility for the face of the world. The symbols of today enable the reality of tomorrow. Notice the swastikas and other signs of hate. Do not look away, and do not get used to them. Remove them yourself and set an example for others to do so.
In his Substack newsletter, Snyder encourages people to start organizing now (2024) in order to win both local and national elections.[15] He notes that On Tyranny was written in a defensive mode and that if its lessons are learned and implemented now things could get much better in 2025 for those who want to maintain democracy and the rule of law in the United States.[15] Snyder has noted that while Trump did not succeed in overturning the 2020 election, it was practice for a successful coup and his supporters will be better prepared for 2024.[16] He also notes that in 2020 important individuals and institutions were aware Trump might not want to peacefully transfer power if he lost the elections and that they prepared to make sure lawful transfer did occur.[16]
I’m pretty sure that the answer is against the Terms Of Service of this instance.
Run for political office. The Democrats have no intention of fixing anything, let alone making things better.
And if you believe you’re not qualified or don’t know how to do the job, just remember that both parties are filled with incompetent fools, fakes, conspiracy crackpots, and morons. It would take considerable effort to do worse than some of the people in congress.
Well, both parties are also filled with money and other resources needed to ensure that only two parties can succeed.
We need alternative voices in office, but I don’t think that’s happening without some form of revolution. The best one can hope for in lieu of that is co-opting a party’s direction over a span of decades, like the fascists did to the GOP.
If you can’t organize a political movement, you definitely can’t organize a revolution. Also, if history is a guide, the people with wealth tend to end up in power after a revolution.
Lenin was not wealthy. Stalin was not wealthy. Despite the many failings of the USSR, let us not forget that compared to life under the Tzars it was a smashing success.
And it did put power in the hands of people who weren’t born to privilege.
I wonder how well thought past revolutions actually were. Did they seriously plan what they will do after they win or did things just move on and suddenly they had to come up what to do now.
Anyways, people with wealth taking power is definitely something that must be planned against or you might as well not do anything in the first place.
Many state and local democratic parties are far ahead of the national party in the progressive shift, too, and it’s absolutely easier to inspire change in a local or state party than the national party.
And it’s not just running for elected offices. In-party roles like chair membership and planning can be effective for driving change in a party, and also be the difference in whether the elections continue to go to the shoe-in forever politicians or someone new. The people supporting a change who have access to the resources of the party are just as important as those running.
And if anyone is thinking “my city/county/state party is so tone deaf/old/corporate” consider that they might simply need someone younger or more progessive to become more involved. In an ideal world, they’d be able to speak more with the community, but sometimes they are understaffed or unaware and rely on who is involved to provide context. Become that context.
Run for office? With what money?
I don’t want to put a target on my or my families backs 😓
Politics stopped working at the federal level, and only some states are full democracies.
So running for local office either won’t help at all, because the fight is not there. Or it’s a dangerous futile thing to do - if one were to be outspoken and all public against injustice.
The only hope for many is to make new things while breaking as little of the old as possible
Run for office, or find someone worthy and get behind their run. Don’t worry about Republicans for now,vee have to defeat the Democratic establishment before we will have the ability to fight Republicans.
I really want to. But getting started in that is kind of like looking for a door in the castle walls.
I have three pieces of advice:
First: The best, most practical and actionable advice I can think of is to start organizing your neighborhood. You don’t even have to openly be organizing resistance to do it, just get to know your neighbors, get your neighbors to know each other, get to know what’s going on in each other’s lives and offer help where and how you can. Bring over some snacks on the basis of being neighborly and just ask how they’re doing some time. Forming these social bonds are really, really important, and it’s the basis of building resilience in your community. We used to have stuff like this built in, but it’s been slowly eroded over lifetimes, largely but not exclusively by exclusionary zoning and car-centric infrastructure.
Look, if you’re just the person a couple doors down they don’t really know, people might go “oh, huh” when the brown shirts come. If you’re Dolores down the street who brings them brownies every month, there’s a much better chance that your neighbors knock back when the brown shirts come knocking. And if it’s not just one neighbor, but three or four of them that come out to beat some Nazi ass? Pretty good chance those fucks will get the message loud and clear.
I can feel some of you out there already replying “but my neighbors voted for the Nazis”. Yeah, they did. I’ve also worked with enough Republican voters to know that when they think of the evil other, they don’t possibly imagine that that could include their friends, family, and co-workers. That is, your neighbors, in all likelihood, don’t want the bad thing to happen to you. The point is this: community bonds can and will outweigh other considerations if you build them.
Second: Go to local government meetings as much as possible, bitch at them about your favorite pet issue, listen and watch other people who show up there. It’s an easy way to speed run making connections in your local activist community, and you might even end up actually influencing some local policies. I go to them, it’s free and easy, and the cops can’t stop you from yelling at the city council about the price of housing. The real value, though, has been getting invited to other local activist groups that I never realized existed because I met other members of those groups there.
Third: Prepare. If shit hits the fan, you need to be able to take care of yourself, help might not be coming. I think probably the best strategy is the same as for mass shooters: run, hide, fight.
Run- ditch your smartphone and other spyware devices. Tell nobody about your plans, especially not over any kind of electronic medium. Just go. Have a bug out bag ready to go. When you’re making your bag, remember that you’re going to have to carry it a long, long way. Try to be practical. Probably the most important items you can have are your ID, cash, more cash than you think in a few different places, a change of clothes (especially underwear and socks), a good multi-tool or fixed-blade knife (no need to go crazy, just get a decent full-tang no-frills knife from a flea market or something), hygiene products (moist towelettes and baby wipes are great), water, and snacks (try to focus on really energy dense stuff like peanut butter). Small tarps and mylar/wool blankets probably are good ideas too. Water should also be its own container, ideally a large canteen, or a backpack if you can swing it. I’d also recommend a handful of dice or playing cards to keep you sane.
Have a plan with anyone who’s going with you on where to meet up and how long to wait and don’t tell another soul about it. If they miss the deadline, just go ahead and follow the rest of the plan.
Also, part of this is upskilling. Learn how to repair tears in your clothing, how to talk to people, how to do first aid, stuff like that. You’ve got to be ready to rely on yourself to get yourself out of a jam. At the point of running, this is the worst scenario, and you need to treat it as such.
Hide- DITCH YOUR FUCKING ELECTRONICS. Never go on social media ever again ever, don’t log into Google, don’t check your email, don’t log into Lemmy, just quit this shit altogether. The NSA already has a full database of basically anything you’ve ever communicated over a phone or the internet, and law enforcement absolutely will use it via parallel construction. Don’t use debit cards or credit cards, pay in cash. You wouldn’t believe the shit they collect on you all the time. You can worry about contacting people once you’re safe.
Fight- There is still a second amendment. If it’s a choice between dying in a firefight with some fascists or going to the boxcars, I think that choice seems obvious. Speaking as a gun owner: If you get a gun, you MUST practice with it at least a few times. Get familiar with it and understand how to handle it, you really don’t want the first time you’ve ever shot your gun to be when you’re trying to fight the Nazis. Personally, I’d recommend a pump action 12 gauge shotgun; it’s practical for many, many use cases, the ammo is easy to come by and very common, it’s dead easy to service and maintain, and aiming at close quarters is as simple as point and click.
