I don’t expect this to play particularly well here, and maybe I’m just being conspiratorial, but here goes:
I banned [email protected] from [email protected] earlier today- he literally posted a matt walsh youtube link and was being otherwise transphobic in a space where that gets you banned. (link)
one of jordanlunds removed comments w/ matt walsh video:
spoiler
the reason I put down was ‘trolling about neopronouns’ I stand by that, it was violating instance rules and was unacceptable behavior from a moderator of another instance.
Shortly after that I got banned from [email protected] for ‘trolling’. To be clear, jordanlund does not moderate [email protected], but the timing struck me as an odd coincidence.
The .world thread in question (link)
I was expressing my actual opinion/position on this, if anything the post I was replying to should be considered a rule 1 violation implying leftists are russian/under russian sway:
spoiler
The removed comments that I was banned (permanent) for were just me being earnest about my position, which you’re welcome to disagree with.
I don’t view protecting my rights as something worth sacrificing other people for, even if they’re on the other side of the planet. You can be mad at me or hate me for that, but I’m not trolling.
People replying felt it was reasonable to call me an idiot for example, yet another example of selective moderation. on .world.
I don’t have any conclusive proof that my banning Jordanlund and then getting banned are related other than the suspicious timing, I welcome clarification.
Anyway in the interest of neutrality and transparency I submit both my ban and jordanlunds for review.
That checks out for Jordanlund and Lemmy.world, unsurprising and still sad.
To be clear, jordanlund does not moderate [email protected], but the timing struck me as an odd coincidence.
Just something else I found recently
Oh that is interesting information, thank you!
Oh that would explain a lot lol
I used to think neo-pronouns are kinda silly, and I guess I still kinda do. But there’s no skin off my back to address people in a way that they don’t find hurtful. If people tell me my actions are hurtful to them, I try and take them at face value so long as doing so wouldn’t be hurtful to others or myself. Seems like basic conscientiousness to me.
PTB. You did nothing wrong here.
My beef with neo pronouns is they are used in such a way to weaponize the “political correctness” attitude of some liberal communities
Drag is a good example because they’re a blatant troll, and pretty blatantly try to get anyone who disagrees with them about anything banned for being “transphobic”
Like it’s an obvious bit, it makes the mods and admins look like fools. Drag got banned from hexbear AND .ml for this behavior.
Well that’s just not true. I disagree with Drag all the time.
Drag got banned from hexbear AND .ml
Since when are bans from those instances any kind of reference?
It’s the reason they got banned that’s important, both .ml and hexbear are pretty lgbtq inclusive, and they love a good troll. But they wouldn’t tolerate drag.
It’s better to live with a few trolls than intentionally make users feel unsafe.
PTB. I think you are correct in both cases.
I was the one that submitted the ban, after a number of reports. On the face of it (I am at work, so don’t always have time to deep dive), The reports did seem to align with trolling.
I had/have no idea what’s going on withe the Jordan Lund thing.
For what it’s worth I thought I was being respectful in my dissent, I was even keeping my comments to the one thread and not attempting to insult anyone. I’m entirely open to this just being coincidence.
Fair point. I’ll restore the comments and remove the ban
thank you! sorry to raise a stink, I appreciate the quick response!
Caught me on my lunch break, and this is a community I love lurking in.
Thanks!
Hey, good on ya for jumping in and being transparent. We need more mods like you. Thanks, mate!
I just want to add that it seems to me that about 90% of people accused of trolling on here do not themselves think they are trolling. Something to ponder.
Everybody is the good guy in their own story.
I think this is a related factor but not quite what I’m getting at here.
My understanding of trolling is that it is a deliberate attempt to trigger negative emotional responses and cause trouble. So users should have a good sense of whether they are or are not engaged in trolling.
So either:
A: They are lying about their intentions. B: The community and mods are ascribing ill intentions where there are none. Or C: Different people are using conflicting definitions of trolling.
While A might seem the obvious answer, I think it’s actually far less common than people think. When I go through the histories of people accused of trolling I rarely see clear evidence of it. It’s usually just a person who has a tendency to respond angrily to people they disagree with, or who has a particularly strong disagreement with the community on a particular issue that they feel passionately about.
So I usually chock these cases up to B, and I think this case is a pretty clear example. However I’d also be curious to know if C is at play here, so if you think there is another definition of trolling that differs from mine, please share it.
I mean, further looking and it’s almost certainly B. I think people like to ascribe ill-intent when they just knee-jerk to disagreement. “Trolling” here was absolutely the wrong choice of verbiage.
I’d hope that anyone online enough to become a Lemmy moderator would know better, but plenty of people think trolling means doing absolutely anything anyone might not be entirely happy with online. That definition seems to be the prevailing one on TV and radio news, so people who don’t engage with online culture would pick it up that way. That would cover things like posting a joke which was poorly received, whether it was just terrible or because it was offensive, and whether or not you knew it was potentially offensive.
There’s also the matter of whether trolling is trying to intentionally provoke people specifically by pretending to be an idiot (and looking at Wikipedia, it’s sometimes as an attempt at humour rather than to provoke - e.g. Ken M isn’t trying to upset anyone, but is pretending to be an idiot or misinformed).
So there are plenty of definitions of trolling going around, and it’s plausible that moderators might sometimes use one that’s wildly incompatible with your definition.
I know Matt Walsh is a complete and utter tool, but what was the video Jordan linked (url doesn’t work when I copy it)? Just wondering about the context. I do think drag is probably a troll, but I understand Ada’s position and I don’t think there’s a point to arguing over it anymore, especially whilst on blahaj.
I don’t find your comments in news to be trolling at all.
Here’s the YouTube video that was linked. Essentially another person using neopronouns in a similar manner followed by Walsh failing to find the grammar to articulate a snarky comment about grammar.
https://youtube.com/shorts/_ymEiWyyl4A
OP’s link doesn’t work for me either so I copied it from the screenshot. My phone also had trouble copying from the screenshot since it read the lowercase L “l” as a vertical bar “|”.
the link in question: CW transphobia
Removed by mod
I think neopronouns defeat the purpose of pronouns as when they become bespoke like this they cease being linguistic shortcuts but I also think calling people mentally ill for expressing themselves doesn’t do anyone any good either.
Removed by mod
Isn’t FlyingSquid a mod there? They cooperate with one another, so if you cross one you cross both.
But yeah, doesn’t surprise me. Jordan is the same white dude who said he didn’t support BLM because protests inconvenienced him. He’s a peak liberal Zionist.
Jordan is the same white dude who said he didn’t support BLM because protests inconvenienced him. He’s a peak liberal Zionist.
That stuff was wild
No, he is not.
Why are you bringing up his race at all as it is his views that are objectionable not his skin tone.
Have a look at the article yourself: https://www.opb.org/news/series/racenw/race-northwest-united-states-jordan-lund-portland/
It’s not my fault white dudes tend to be the only people complaining about civil rights. If you don’t like people stating facts, then maybe turn on Fox News or sub to Trump on his social media. Then you won’t have to worry about it anymore.
it’s not my fault white dudes tend to be…
So while I don’t actually disagree, I have to point out that this sounds exactly like how racists defence themselves. “It’s not my fault that black people are…”
And again I don’t think that your view is wrong, but I think we should be careful with words
Nah, I’ll continue to call out racism when I see it. There’s no need to bring up his race.
Well, when you write your next comment, don’t do it then. See, that’s how things work. You write your comments, and I write mine.
If we’re assuming it was a retaliation ban- The powers that be at lemmy.world would be wise to nip this type of thing in the bud now and replace those actively working to deceive and lash out at others from their team.
Eventually people will stop giving the owners/admins the benefit of the doubt when controversial things like this happen. What happens then? The time/money/resources are being thrown away to enable a few people’s egos and eventually the users will tire of it and abandon ship. It seems like we’re drawing closer to that every day.
One way or another the true colors will always come out. Interesting times ahead.
Yeah that tracks. Jordan’s one of the worst mods on here.
For anyone wanting help finding the original entry in the modlog - bc it is currently not in either lemmy.ml or lemmy.world - here it is in lemmy.blahaj.zone. I haven’t delved into the rest but wanted to say damn it’s annoying when moderation activities don’t federate:-(.
Thanks for that, I agree it is really annoying having moderation doesn’t federate, or is obfuscated.
Interesting case. Not giving any opinion right now, but as always, [email protected] is an alternative to the LW one.
Strong IRC vibes, nostalgia trip FTW.
#quakeed represent.
I’m on .world because it was the first option and I wasn’t sure I’d use lemmy. I do not have room in my life for server wars.
Why are people so mad about someone using “drag” as a pronoun?
Is it hurting drag? No. Is it hurting anyone else? No.
I have also seen people say drag is a troll. I cant confirm nor deny that since i have only seen a couple of drags comments, but most people who have said something bad about dragonrider talk about the pronouns, not the person
They’re just dumbass transphobes. It’s not that complicated.
They just mask how much trans people make them feel “icky” by targeting normalized people, and masking it as “I’m just telling a troll to fuck off.”
If you don’t like Drag, just block them. Don’t announce it, just block and move on.
“But drag isn’t a pronoun!!” Who cares? How does it impact you?
Look at this flawless solution that would have headed off about 30 posts across a dozen communities. However you feel about Drag doesn’t matter because the Fediverse was FOUNDED on a users capability to Block And Move On. Just as you would for any other supposed bad faith actor. Unless harrasment is whats really important here…
Btw poor Drag must feel like a piece of meat at this point. If you’re reading this my drag, we stan.
I saw, hope drags alright.
If you don’t like Drag, just block Drag. Don’t announce it, just block and move on.
I tried that. But at some point I realised there were convos in comms I mod that I couldn’t see because I had him blocked. So no go.
“I identify as a dragon fucker” feels a lot like “I identify as an attack helicopter.”
You clearly haven’t spent much time around furries if anything about drag surprises you.
The princess is right. There are quite a few dragon fuckers in this world.
Really unsurprising considering it involved Israel. News mods usually bend over backwards like the r/worldnews to remove anything slightly critical. Especially when it’s calling out hasbara
